For BB - Bramall Lane Freehold & Debt

[SwissBlade]

As long as the names Lee Strapon or Mike Ashely don't appear on any ownership documents at our club then I'm happy.

Mr McCabe, his family, Scarborough and all the other companies associated with them may not always run the club with the most cavalier attitude like the arabs and the russians but for me they have the interests of SUFC at heart.

Long may it continue

 

[Bubbleburp]

As long as the names Lee Strapon or Mike Ashely don't appear on any ownership documents at our club then I'm happy.

Mr McCabe, his family, Scarborough and all the other companies associated with them may not always run the club with the most cavalier attitude like the arabs and the russians but for me they have the interests of SUFC at heart.

Long may it continue

you forgot a couple of names there SB ..... Allen and Bates !!!

 

[raul]

McDonald Hashimi Brearly Woolhouse.


There, just to save everyone the bother.:fishy:

 

[beightonblade]

nowt like a bit of debate eh ?

now what next !

 

[happyhippy]

If I remember correctly BB was voted "Forum Member of the Year" in the poll last Christmas. Not likely for someone who just posts "blatent lies and propaganda."

BB is just a harmless wind up merchant. I remember when he first turned up, and he got bites aplenty. Then we realised he's just a fluffy bunny with sharp teeth.

So we, metaphorically, muzzled him, and we all grew to see the humour.

He's just sensed fresh blood, that's all.

Up his gert

 

[Mary Christmas]

I think I've lost my way on this. Though I thanked Derrywan for the post it just seemed to be the right thing to do because everyone else was. So all I want to know is will the the pies cost more or less in 2011?

 

[happyhippy]

I think I've lost my way on this. Though I thanked Derrywan for the post it just seemed to be the right thing to do because everyone else was. So all I want to know is will the the pies cost more or less in 2011?

Doesn't make any difference. They're delicious and available all round the ground. You should go to a kiosk NOW!

Peter said so.

 

[Bramley]

They need to change the advertisement on the screen on the Bramall Lane End. It says "Peters pies ,best pies about" or something on those lines. The misplaced comma irritates me. McCabe out.

 

[Blade58]

Right - I got sick and tired of BB's inuendo, so did some digging (at my own cost). BB was wrong about the ownership.

BUT I discovered something else - the ground is owned by the club, but McCabe is taking his money back early ...

Freehold Title Absolute: The Sheffield United Football Club Ltd.
Mortgaged to bank of Scotland PLC
In June 2009 a charge (debt secured against the property) was entered for Sheffield United Football Club Ltd. to pay Scarborough Ventures Ltd: £1m on 15/01/2010; £1m on 28/05/2010; £1m on 13/08/2010; £1m on 14/01/2011; £1.5m on 27/05/2011 and £1.5 M on 12/08/11

Scarborough Ventures Ltd has the 2 younger McCabes as directors alongside Esplanade Directors Ltd.

Esplanade Directors Ltd was dormant until just recently. Its directors are the 2 younger McCabes, Sandra McCabe and Paul Richardson, Finance Director at Scarborough group.

(all the above available from the land registry and companies house)

So the upshot is that over the next 2 years, Scarborough will be repaid £7m by the club.

(edit: worth reading vistoma's comments at top of page 2 for reassurance on this and the timing of West Ham money coming in)

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the club repay £7m over the next 2 years if we haven't got a pot to piss in?

Haven't we already had the WH monies by way of a bank loan secured against the WH money coming in each year? So in effect the money has already been spent?

Accounts has never been a strong point of mine

Cheers.

 

[Studge]

Excuse my ignorance, but how does the club repay £7m over the next 2 years if we haven't got a pot to piss in?

Haven't we already had the WH monies by way of a bank loan secured against the WH money coming in each year? So in effect the money has already been spent?

Accounts has never been a strong point of mine

Cheers.

Like this as I have posted on tother site

I think its all ancient history really as in November 2010 3 further mortgages were satisfied including that one with the looks of it oh and on the 14 March 2011 a further £17,166,210 of shares were issued in lieu of loan notes, interest on loan notes and loan agreements thereby increasing the issued share capital of SUFC PLC from £27,851M in the last accounts to currently £45,017M, So much for the best we have ever had pulling his money out, it would appear he has done the opposite.[/quote]

 

[Blade58]

Cheers studge!

So if everything is hunky dory, do we take it that Danny the pig has a transfer budget?

 

[SotonBlade]

Probably not

 

[axel smeets]

In laymans terms then, is it the case that McCabe has helped the club by converting loan notes to shares? Or is it the case that if he tried to pull out what was owed when it was owed, the resulting cloth cutting would likely see us in the bottom 6 of League Two or even the Conference?

And that would mean that there was never a chance of him seeing a penny again because presumably we would be on the verge of bankruptcy?

 

[beightonblade]

Oh no ..........................here we go again !

Layman terms: Mr McCabe has us where he wants us.

 

[Lid]

Oh no ..........................here we go again !

Layman terms: Mr McCabe has us where he wants us.

Where is that then ?

 

[beightonblade]

Where is that then ?

Wherever he wants.

 

[Darren]

Like this as I have posted on tother site

I think its all ancient history really as in November 2010 3 further mortgages were satisfied including that one with the looks of it oh and on the 14 March 2011 a further £17,166,210 of shares were issued in lieu of loan notes, interest on loan notes and loan agreements thereby increasing the issued share capital of SUFC PLC from £27,851M in the last accounts to currently £45,017M, So much for the best we have ever had pulling his money out, it would appear he has done the opposite.

[/QUOTE]

Excuse my ignorance, and maybe someone with expertise in accounts can answer this, but does this mean that the club has effectively paid back the money owed to McCabe by way of shares with a nominal value of £17M? If that is the case does that not mean that the club does not owe McCabe anything and that he can only recoup his money by selling his shares?

 

[FleaPitBlade]

Wooooosh! There it goes, way over my head.

I hear about £47m debts in one ear and that we dont owe a penny in another....
Can somebody just cut out the jargon and explain what SUFC owe, and to who?

 

[beightonblade]

Excuse my ignorance, and maybe someone with expertise in accounts can answer this, but does this mean that the club has effectively paid back the money owed to McCabe by way of shares with a nominal value of £17M? If that is the case does that not mean that the club does not owe McCabe anything and that he can only recoup his money by selling his shares?[/QUOTE]


hey .......................................... is this a reight can of worms ?......or straightforward and above my head ? ............ and just who does own the freehold ?
Just when yer think things can't get worse up pops this owd thread

 

[Micalijo]

Excuse my ignorance, and maybe someone with expertise in accounts can answer this, but does this mean that the club has effectively paid back the money owed to McCabe by way of shares with a nominal value of £17M? If that is the case does that not mean that the club does not owe McCabe anything and that he can only recoup his money by selling his shares?[/QUOTE]

Not for one minute suggesting I have expertise but my understanding is that the only bank debt is to Santander, secured via West Ham wedge.

In terms of loans outstanding to McCabe - these should be very low or nil following the debt/equity swap.

As such, he can either get his wedge back by - taking dividends/salary, selling the shares or as Beighton suggests, transfer unencumbered freehold to a trust effort and charge the football club rent.

Problem is that relegation has blown a huge hole in plans to avoid further borrowing/loans from McCabe and I fear he might have to pump more wedge in because getting rid of the big earners will be very difficult in my opiniopn - because they are very poor players.

 

[davidpinder]

Problem is that relegation has blown a huge hole in plans to avoid further borrowing/loans from McCabe and I fear he might have to pump more wedge in because getting rid of the big earners will be very difficult in my opiniopn - because they are very poor players.

I think he hinted at that in his interview we can't force teams to buy our players. Would you pay cheds wages?? none of them will want a pay cut so i think we have a problem.

 

[Darren]

Isn't the reality is that McCabe is, effectively, the club. As the majority shareholder there is absolutely nothing to stop him at the club AGM voting directors on the Board who are committed to winding up the football club and selling the Lane to an international supermarket chain.

If he wanted to do that there is nothing anyone could (legally) do to stop him. Hence the danger of one man owning a football club

 

[Micalijo]

Isn't the reality is that McCabe is, effectively, the club. As the majority shareholder there is absolutely nothing to stop him at the club AGM voting directors on the Board who are committed to winding up the football club and selling the Lane to an international supermarket chain.

If he wanted to do that there is nothing anyone could (legally) do to stop him. Hence the danger of one man owning a football club

That's how I see it.

 

[Worksop II]

If he wanted to do that there is nothing anyone could (legally) do to stop him

Brother Number 1 has been in that position for years, and he hasn`t done it.

 

[beightonblade]

oh dear ..............................has the penny dropped ?

Its like the okay cocay with money

Does anybody have details/terms of the restructuring with Santander?

 

[Micalijo]

Brother Number 1 has been in that position for years, and he hasn`t done it.

Very true, but that was before the demise of the club and before huge losses in property values - unless you are renting a football stadium to a club you own

---------- Post added at 12:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:15 PM ----------

oh dear ..............................has the penny dropped ?

Its like the okay cocay with money

In Out In Out you shake it all about!!!

Love it Beights - keep it up.

 

[beightonblade]

In Out In Out you shake it all about!!!

Love it Beights - keep it up.

Hands up if yer think the de listing was to save admin fee's !

 

[Studge]

Excuse my ignorance, and maybe someone with expertise in accounts can answer this, but does this mean that the club has effectively paid back the money owed to McCabe by way of shares with a nominal value of £17M? If that is the case does that not mean that the club does not owe McCabe anything and that he can only recoup his money by selling his shares?[/QUOTE]

You are correct in so much that we still owe him any loans in excess of the £17M

 

[Darren]

Brother Number 1 has been in that position for years, and he hasn`t done it.

I am not suggesting he will do it, just that he has the power to do so that all the argument about who holds the freehold etc is essentially irrelevant. Whether or not the freehold is in KM's name or the club's name, KM could flog the ground to Tesco any time he chooses. As you say, the fact that he has not done so when he has had the power to do so for years tends to suggest that he won't. I suspect that however much money he might make out of it, KM does not want to go down as the most hated man in the history of SUFC.

 

[Studge]

Hands up if yer think the de listing was to save admin fee's !

YES he already owned it lock & stock & most of the barrel

---------- Post added at 12:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 PM ----------

I am not suggesting he will do it, just that he has the power to do so that all the argument about who holds the freehold etc is essentially irrelevant. Whether or not the freehold is in KM's name or the club's name, KM could flog the ground to Tesco any time he chooses. As you say, the fact that he has not done so when he has had the power to do so for years tends to suggest that he won't. I suspect that however much money he might make out of it, KM does not want to go down as the most hated man in the history of SUFC.

Well the concecus of opinion appears to be BDTBL would be worth £10-12M m as a development site so it would be one way of creating a £40M capital loss should he so wish

---------- Post added at 12:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:27 PM ----------

Excuse my ignorance, and maybe someone with expertise in accounts can answer this, but does this mean that the club has effectively paid back the money owed to McCabe by way of shares with a nominal value of £17M? If that is the case does that not mean that the club does not owe McCabe anything and that he can only recoup his money by selling his shares?

hey .......................................... is this a reight can of worms ?......or straightforward and above my head ? ............ and just who does own the freehold ?
Just when yer think things can't get worse up pops this owd thread [/QUOTE]

The only reason it popped up is because you brought it up on Bladesmad