Flag Clarification

[BIFF]

Evening All,

Firstly many thanks for your emails to B.I.F.F on several fan related issues, every one is read and raised with officials at United as a matter of course, answers will be posted or relayed directly as soon as we receive them.

Today i have sought clarification from key people at the club regarding the advertised "Flag Day", as it appears there is slight confusion/misunderstanding out there amongst us on the detail.

The key points Blades Officials stated are as follows :

1. For the Palace game, everyone who has a flag can take it to BDTBL to get it fire safety tested (free), if it passes it is allowed in. (testing involves cutting a small piece of the flag off & seeing if it burns)

2. Once your flag has been passed it will be signed and numbered by the fire safety authoriser (discreetly..) who will also issue a headed letter of certification that the flag meets Blades criteria

3. Your can then take your authorised fire safety flag to BDTBL for every game afterwards (this is not just for 1 game)

4. I have been informed we are the only club in the land to come up with this initiative at present.

5. Blades Officials will seek advice from other clubs as to their policy and whether this passes and will provide an update on this in due course

6. Flags are allowed in any stand

I hope this post goes some way in clearing up any confusion on this subject.

UTB

 

[Linz]

Foxy also has something to post with regards to the official club line on flags but hasn't managed to get round to it yet.

Also, while we're on the subject, please note this from Leicester City:

Blades fans intending to support us on Wednesday night should note that - on the instruction of Leicester City - banners of any type are banned from the Walkers Stadium.

Supporters wishing to take flags into the home of the Foxes require a fire certificate to be produced on the day of the match, upon entering the stadium.

In an effort to support Blades fans, United Safety Officer Steve Hicks has offered any fans who need a safety certificate for their flags to bring the flags to the club to be certificated and this information will be passed on to Leicester City.

Any fan who already possesses a fire certificate for their flag can email the certificate and a picture of their flag to [email protected] for Steve's attention. He will then forward them to the relevant person at Leicester City.

United are aware that the current feeling towards policy on supporters bringing flags to football grounds and as such will re-issue the safety guidelines and instructions shortly.

Flag poles continue to be banned.

I know some people continue to moan, but United aren't the people you have to get arsey with for following the rules.

 

[sheffielder]

Can I get arsey about the whole idea of a flag day. Palace at home live on sky. Might be down to about 16000 then,so afew empty seats and some flags. I just hope one isn't waved infront of me. This is a joke right?

 

[Kopped]

You just can't please some people

 

[Linz]

Can I get arsey about the whole idea of a flag day. Palace at home live on sky. Might be down to about 16000 then,so afew empty seats and some flags. I just hope one isn't waved infront of me. This is a joke right?

I think the message has been communicated slightly differently to how its been received.

The intention of the club, apparently, was that it would be an ear-marked day for people to bring their flags down and get them tested so that they could use them home and away (where permissible) for the rest of the season. It isn't just about having them waved around for the Sky cameras.

The club were responding to requests that something be done to improve the atmosphere but it seems that in some cases, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[beightonblade]

Fo okin hell ...................... has the white flag the Blades players have been waving got a fire certificate ?

 

[Foxy]

Essentially, the situation is...

The club have to have a Safety Certificate in order to allow us into the ground of a matchday.

The Safety Certificate is administered by an advisory group, with each council enforcing varying levels of compliance and inspection.

I believe Sheffield operates a "plus one" standard, which essentially means a level above the established "best practice" or written standards.

One of the current hot-topics, it would appear, is flags and therefore a number of advisory groups have been focusing on them.

This means that in order to comply and thus ensure we are able to operate matchdays as normal, the Blades appear to be have decided/been informed they have to take some form of pro-active action.

We aren't alone, a number of clubs are having to do the same, including perhaps most topically Leicester.

Where the Blades appear to differ, is that in order to try not to antagonise the fans who this ruling effects, they seem to be going out of their way to aid people in being able to continue to bring flags to the lane.

 

[Linz]

Just to answer a question asked elsewhere, it's the Safety Advisory Group which the club tells us sets the rules on safety within the ground (flags, flares, standing etc.)

The contact address is:

Safety Advisory Group
Sheffield City Council
Town Hall
Sheffield
S1 2HH

And according to THIS PAGE on the Football Licensing Authority's website (last updated in 2009 mind), our inspector is a chappy called Ian Smith.

 

[Micalijo]

Seriously, what if a flag says 'F*** your property McCabe' and is fire proof? Will it get in? Are old bed sheets fireproof?

Flag day - what a load of shite. Total and utter embarrassment. Mind you, nowt against the union jack/England ones with SUFC etc on but if kids are waving pathetic little things about it will be sickening.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Seriously, what if a flag says 'F*** your property McCabe' and is fire proof? Will it get in?

Are you testing the water mic?

 

[alcoblade]

Nice one SUFC, good idea. Not everyone hates everything about you.

UTB

 

[Kopped]

WOW,

The club are supplying kids with flags as well now

Where did they get the money to do that?

Come on, it's getting tedious now. The club is leaving it in your hands. Bring it get it cleared so it can be used every game. If you don't, you won't get the required Cert. and it won't be welcome. It's a free test!

You can't hang the club for trying to be pro-active.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Can't see how the club could be criticised for this really.

 

[Linz]

Can't see how the club could be criticised for this really.

You would be surprised...



Consider this a condensed and paraphrased scenario...

1. "We want flags. We want flags."

2. "You can't have flags unless they're safety certificated."

1. "Set of joyless wankers."

2. "Listen, we can get your flags safety certificated now. Have all the flags you want. As long as Keith Lard would approve."

1. "No. Stuff your flags. I'm not coming any more."

 

[Zlatan]

(testing involves cutting a small piece of the flag off & seeing if it burns)

You couldn't make it up.

 

[Foxy]

You couldn't make it up.

As amusing as it sounds.... How else do you propose they test them in a timely manner as to not upset people with taking the flag away for analysis?

They've gone out of their way to get approval for this, with agreed method, the only club I know of who are at least trying to accomodate those who wish to take flags... yet all they get is abuse.

 

[Zlatan]

As amusing as it sounds.... How else do you propose they test them in a timely manner as to not upset people with taking the flag away for analysis?

They've gone out of their way to get approval for this, with agreed method, the only club I know of who are at least trying to accomodate those who wish to take flags... yet all they get is abuse.

I'm not having a go at them, it was just that sentence which made me chuckle. Surely every flag burns!?

 

[SIDDARN]

What about those clubs who just let them in anyway?

 

[Linz]

You couldn't make it up.

"Have you ever smelt burning flesh? Have you?"

What about those clubs who just let them in anyway?

Different SAGs... you'd have to take it up with them.

The rules seem a bit draconian, but you gotta fight the rule makers, not the enforcers.

So say NWA anyway.

 

[WhiteHawk]

A flag has to be pass a fire safety test before its allowed in the ground? Seriously? Health & Safety gone mad!!

 

[bricktop]

I don't know which office wallah came up with this rule. How would a flag catch fire, and could a flag on fire burn a stand down and cause death and injury? How many people have been in injured by burning flags?

 

[Foxy]

I don't know which office wallah came up with this rule. How would a flag catch fire, and could a flag on fire burn a stand down and cause death and injury? How many people have been in injured by burning flags?

I'd hazard a guess not. Having seen the footage they use for training taken from the Bradford fire, I understand why some are keen not to piss about where football stadia are involved, despite the fact that things are so different these days.

The truth of the matter is, as a football club, the Blades are at the mercy of a million and one different rules of varying ridiculousness. They can't just ignore their "responsibilities" as it doesn't work like that.

The other problem is, it can often look like certain clubs are being pettier than others... this is often not the case, but a fact that the authorities and groups administering their licencing impose different rules upon them.

The thing I can't believe is how so many people think it's just the club themselves who feel like annoying them.

 

[raul]

Believe me, this is only level one of H and S buffoonery, can' be long until you'll need to fill in a method statement and risk assessment togther with your certification in flag securement and stress test certs for the tensile strength of the string you'll be using.

 

[WhiteHawk]

You won't be able to drive your own car in a few years without filling out a risk assessment

 

[Foxy]

You won't be able to drive your own car in a few years without filling out a risk assessment

You ever tried using your mobile phone on a forecourt?

Forget about those big sparky things that work by burning stuff, it's the mobile phones that you have to worry about!

 

[SIDDARN]

Rarely visit the lane nowadays (work away so often that it's almost impossible to get), but all this talk on flags highlights how bad English football has become as a spectacle. Sky seem to have created an armchair generation of fans in this country, and that seems to be the way you have to watch a match in person. I can see both sides. We don't want fires raging like in Eastern Europe, but a bit of colour never hurt anybody. Over-policing ruins the day out. In my job, I have to work with Health and Safety in construction, and you'll find it hinders the job as oppose to help it.

 

[bricktop]

I'd hazard a guess not. Having seen the footage they use for training taken from the Bradford fire, I understand why some are keen not to piss about where football stadia are involved, despite the fact that things are so different these days.

The truth of the matter is, as a football club, the Blades are at the mercy of a million and one different rules of varying ridiculousness. They can't just ignore their "responsibilities" as it doesn't work like that.

The other problem is, it can often look like certain clubs are being pettier than others... this is often not the case, but a fact that the authorities and groups administering their licencing impose different rules upon them.

The thing I can't believe is how so many people think it's just the club themselves who feel like annoying them.

Risk assessments work by rating the likelihood of an accident taking place on a scale of 1-6 and then rating the possible effect of injury caused by said accident taking place on a scale of 1-6 and multiplying the numbers together to get a risk score.

So the likelihood of a flag catching fire - 1, and the possible effect of the injury - 1 (providing your completely stupid.

So there you go, my risk assessment is 1, and if you can manage to accidentally set a flag on fire then you must be incredibly stupid and if you injure yourself with a burning flag at a football match then you are also either stupid or unbelivably unlucky.

I've seen the Bradford footage on training courses at work and all it does is illustrate how quickly fire can take hold, but that day at Bradford it was the perfect make up of a fire, wooden stand, plentiful supply of rubbish underneath the stand just waiting for a cigarette to flight it, a wind to fan the flames and a highly flammable roof. With the new guidelines brought in by the report after the Bradford stand would have been ripped down in an instant. With modern stadia like it is, it will be impossible to cause a fire on that scale, or on a scale likely to cause death or injury

 

[Foxy]

Risk assessments work by rating the likelihood of an accident taking place on a scale of 1-6 and then rating the possible effect of injury caused by said accident taking place on a scale of 1-6 and multiplying the numbers together to get a risk score.

So the likelihood of a flag catching fire - 1, and the possible effect of the injury - 1 (providing your completely stupid.

So there you go, my risk assessment is 1, and if you can manage to accidentally set a flag on fire then you must be incredibly stupid and if you injure yourself with a burning flag at a football match then you are also either stupid or unbelivably unlucky.

I've seen the Bradford footage on training courses at work and all it does is illustrate how quickly fire can take hold, but that day at Bradford it was the perfect make up of a fire, wooden stand, plentiful supply of rubbish underneath the stand just waiting for a cigarette to flight it, a wind to fan the flames and a highly flammable roof. With the new guidelines brought in by the report after the Bradford stand would have been ripped down in an instant. With modern stadia like it is, it will be impossible to cause a fire on that scale, or on a scale likely to cause death or injury

All very valid points.

Sadly, you aren't part of the groups and organisations that grant SUFC a safety certificate for Bramall Lane.

 

[Worksop II]

Just to be serious about the Flag thing, it has been known that when Big Flags Surf over the Crowd some git will strike up a Lighter, Melting Nylon or whatever it is, is not what you want on yer Barnet.

 

[bricktop]

I've just risk assessed this message board.

Likelihood of Accident - 4 (spitting coffee over the screen, shed based Olly inspired injuries, having an heart attack at the latest news, electricution from computer)
Seriousness of Accident - 6 (death, serious injury, hospitalisation)

Total Risk - 24

I'd shut it down ASAP before anyone comes to any harm