Fiddling away in High Court while our Premier League chances burn.

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Blade56 said:
Think you need to both (Woodwardfan and Sean Thornton) book the next courtroom slot after our two muppets have finished raggin each other off in public. The right Hon. itsinyerblood presiding. Losing party should get a 50% ‘Likes’ deduction and a ‘grow the feck up’ order. ;)
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In that case, I’ll need to book a few days off for itsinyerblood ’s summing up...

Sorry Alf..😇
 
BRP will be bad fo the club should he steal it off mccabe, it's clear he doesn't have a pot to piss in, and I don't trust him not to strip the club to it's bare bones and sell off the land that the ground is on..

He's not interested in anybody or anything other than lining his pockets..
 
Tezza1889 said:
BRP will be bad fo the club should he steal it off mccabe, it's clear he doesn't have a pot to piss in, and I don't trust him not to strip the club to it's bare bones and sell off the land that the ground is on..

He's not interested in anybody or anything other than lining his pockets..
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I thought that was McCabe’s plan, him being a property developer and all that. That’s what people have been saying for the last ten years anyway.
 
BushBlade said:
I thought that was McCabe’s plan, him being a property developer and all that. That’s what people have been saying for the last ten years anyway
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People blamed him for successive crap mangerial appointments, which is fair enough, but don't give him any credit for CW.

He is also blamed for not being rich enough and having to bring a joint investor in.

It's amazing the fantastic business acumen and foresight in decision making that a key board/forum user name give you....
 
I should coco said:
People blamed him for successive crap mangerial appointments, which is fair enough, but don't give him any credit for CW.

He is also blamed for not being rich enough and having to bring a joint investor in.

It's amazing the fantastic business acumen and foresight in decision making that a key board/forum user name give you....
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You can concentrate on the detail when there's not a shiny sixpence worth of financial risk.
 
sufcboy95 said:
Does anyone actually know when court case is due to finish?
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Verbal evidence finished to-day. 2 days for closing argument submissions on Monday 24 and Tuesday 25 June then it concludes and Judge retires to deliberate on his judgement.
 
Woodwardfan said:
My whole point is that the business will not get done in time and enough cash will not get spent before the Transfer Window shuts in August.

£20m budget just doesn't facilitate the numbers you are quoting.
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I'm sure what you're referring to is something that has crossed many folks minds - i.e. hoping that all this stuff going on in Court doesn't affect things negatively for the club this comings season. But you come down so strongly on the side that it will and then you throw in lots more "Doomsday" type scenario's for good measure. It's just so negative, I mean, it really is. I'm not sure a messageboard forum is the best place for you to be if you're feeling so negative about things. Because people on here will argue and disagree over the time of day - and that's only going to wind you up further.

For what it's worth, I think the Court Case will not affect our immediate plans to sign new players, improve the ground to Prem standards etc. In fact, I think it will benefit us, because we will have more stability in the future and be more able to compete at Premiership level. I don't think we are "late" already either. It's only the 2nd week of June y'know?

Sometimes folks write something just to get a reaction. But in your case you appear to be a serial despond. I'd take a few weeks off mate - give yourself a break - and see if you feel any better when you come back? By which time I expect we'll have signed some good players and the Court Case will be sorted - and the mood on here will be one of excitement and anticipation - which you can join in with - or dash with more doomsday scenario's?
 

Cerberus Blade said:
I'm sure what you're referring to is something that has crossed many folks minds - i.e. hoping that all this stuff going on in Court doesn't affect things negatively for the club this comings season. But you come down so strongly on the side that it will and then you throw in lots more "Doomsday" type scenario's for good measure. It's just so negative, I mean, it really is. I'm not sure a messageboard forum is the best place for you to be if you're feeling so negative about things. Because people on here will argue and disagree over the time of day - and that's only going to wind you up further.

For what it's worth, I think the Court Case will not affect our immediate plans to sign new players, improve the ground to Prem standards etc. In fact, I think it will benefit us, because we will have more stability in the future and be more able to compete at Premiership level. I don't think we are "late" already either. It's only the 2nd week of June y'know?

Sometimes folks write something just to get a reaction. But in your case you appear to be a serial despond. I'd take a few weeks off mate - give yourself a break - and see if you feel any better when you come back? By which time I expect we'll have signed some good players and the Court Case will be sorted - and the mood on here will be one of excitement and anticipation - which you can join in with - or dash with more doomsday scenario's?
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I appreciate the time and trouble you have taken. Thank you.

Actually I feel positive about the manager and the club and look forward to the coming season. I think our promotion squad is great.

When we went up with Warnock we shied away from signing Nugent for £6m and we would have been comfortable with him aboard.

Our manager deserves better. This situation is obscene and unnecessary.

I'm hoping Wilder will endorse his budget and message us all that he is entirely happy. He has given standard stock answers already but I think he is quiet as yet.

If we do have a good summer that'll be great. Nobody will be happier than me.For years I've been supportive of McCabe and the club but if this is a wasted opportunity it will be a travesty.

As regards participation on this Forum, my troll brings out reaction and I don't handle it well; I'll find a way some day.

I'll copy my post on another thread to further explain my motivation.

Woodwardfan said:
I think it's a form of helping/ supporting the manager and putting pressure on the owners.

Fans' Noise does matter.

Look how them who are usually loud at S6 avoided Maclaren by shouting loud and long on social media.

Last summer our fan noise probably triggered the journalists who put pressure onto the owners who finally got a budget sorted. That benefited the manager and the club.

Fan opinion has been mentioned in High Court more than once.

I really believe this Forum has an important voice and we can send messages to the club by one means or another. Ok fans want it all and want it now, but sincere and worthy messages can get through.

We fans should message owners, present and future, that Wilder is our God, and we'll respect theirs also. We want our God to be 'appeh in his job!
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Thanks Cerebus.
 
That will be the same bunch of fans that managed to persuade the owner to invest £ 8 million on Jordan Rhodes and pay him another £ 8 million in wages.

Go - fan power.

Last summer our fan noise probably triggered the journalists who put pressure onto the owners who finally got a budget sorted. That benefited the manager and the club.
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More likely they just roll around laughing at some of the rubbish which is posted.

Im sure if we remain in the PL you can take some of the credit though.
 
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The report below is a very good summary of where we are at.

At least the judge knows that his decision is urgent in relation to the transfer window deadline. Wonder why?



wadblade said:
From The Daily mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-seismic-impact-Sheffield-Uniteds-future.html

After six weeks in the High Court, where accusations of bribery and bullying flew between Sheffield United's warring owners the judge has retired to consider his verdict. Mr Justice Fancourt warned it will take at least a fortnight to decide who will win control of the club, although aware of the need for urgency he promised to do his best to be back before the transfer window closes and the season starts on August 9.

The Premier League are monitoring proceedings at the newly promoted club, as well they might after Sheffield United's co-owners, Kevin McCabe and Prince Abdullah, fell out over a buy-out.

A judge is considering a verdict which will have a huge impact on Sheffield United's future This peek behind the boardroom curtain at Bramall Lane, afforded by their High Court row, revealed plenty of cause for concern.

For one, how will the Premier League feel if the Blades wind up in the hands of a Saudi royal who was helped out by a £3million loan from Saleh Bin Laden [family?] at a time when Prince Abdullah was short of cash? What will that do for the global brand, especially in the USA?

McCabe's legal team claimed this loan was in fact a bribe intended to curry favour with the prince in his position as a Saudi sports minister. The allegation was denied.

McCabe, meanwhile, was accused by the prince's lawyers of bullying, deceiving, undermining and generally riding roughshod over his representatives as he ruled the roost at Bramall Lane.

Each side blamed the other for tactically setting out to destroy the partnership in the pursuit of financial gain.

Sheffield United manager Chris Wilder will watch with interest and a sense of deja vu as his players return for pre-season training next week to prepare for the Premier League campaign.

Wilder came close to quitting last summer amid tensions created by the ownership dispute, which threatened to disrupt his transfer plans at a time when Sunderland were attempting to lure him away.

In the summer of 2017, having just won promotion from League One, the Blades were saddled with a transfer embargo, it was revealed in court.

Wilder is adored by supporters yet, despite otherwise cordial relations, is at odds with Prince Abdullah's vision to internationalise Sheffield United: to sign more foreign players and extend the power of Jan van Winckel. The appointment of the highly regarded Belgian coach as a director in December 2017 at the behest of the club's Saudi influence is considered a key factor in the erosion of trust between the owners.

There are fears inside Bramall Lane that Sheffield-born Wilder will consider leaving if the prince's company UTB wins the case, fears which were fuelled in court.

In his closing remarks, Paul Downes QC, representing the McCabe family, warned: 'I feel very, very strongly that this club if it goes to UTB will not prosper. There's a real feeling that the club is heading for stormy waters if we are to lose control.'

The judge dismissed the warning and pointed out that either side could win the case, gain full control and then be free to sell Sheffield United immediately to anyone.

'How can I decide on that basis, or even take it into account as a factor,' said Mr Justice Fancourt. 'It would just be guesswork.'

McCabe, having served on the board for 25 years, many of them as chairman, is determined to 'pass the baton', as he puts it, although he has no desire to sell to the prince. The partnership started warmly in 2013 when McCabe needed the £10m invested by the prince and the Saudis needed the Yorkshireman's local nous and knowledge of English football, but it soured over the years and collapsed irrevocably 18 months ago.

In December 2017, McCabe activated a clause with an offer to buy Prince Abdullah's half of the club for £5m.
Under the terms of their 'Russian roulette' agreement, this also gave the prince a shot at buying out McCabe for the same price. However, it would bring another clause into play because by owning more than 75 per cent of the club, he would be obliged to buy the properties belonging to McCabe, including the stadium and training ground.

The prince accepted the deal but sidestepped his obligation on the properties.

His lawyers hatched a scheme which McCabe considered an outrageous trick — and sparked the legal fight which arrived at the High Court last month, shortly after the Blades had won promotion to the Premier League.

They formed a shell company, UTB 2018 and moved enough shares to avoid the 75 per cent barrier.

This would enable Sheffield United to carry on renting the stadium and training ground from McCabe on the current long-term lease at a favourable rate. In court the prince, with a personal wealth of about £200m, said he felt trapped: unable to afford the properties and forced to sell his half of the club on the cheap when they were, at last, on the up.

Promotion changed the complexion of the case as the club's value soared.

Sheffield will play Bournemouth in their first Premier League fixture for more than 12 years

Prince Abdullah had not been equipped or prepared to take full responsibility for the ownership of a loss-making Championship club but he is, however, enthused by the idea of running a Premier League club and is confident he can do it successfully.

With promotion, any hope of a settlement vanished. So the two sides squared up for a catfight in the courtroom, slinging mud and blaming each other for breaking the terms of their agreement and the bonds of trust.

The evidence has shone a light on the boardroom squabbles and it is down to Mr Justice Fancourt to decide who wins control of this 130-year-old club.

It is to the credit of all sides that the bitter feud was not allowed to interfere with Wilder, his staff and the day-to-day running of the club.

In six weeks, Sheffield United will play at Bournemouth in their first Premier League fixture for more than a dozen years. But who will be in the boardroom remains to be seen.
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Found this on High Court HiJinks Day 20 when trying to find out when the next court day is. Anybody know?
 
There is no "next court day" in the sense I suspect you are using it. The process is as described very early in the Court threads. The Judge has to produce a written Judgement showing the weight he attaches to the written and oral evidence that has been presented to him in support of each parties case. The Judgement will run through the facts he finds that he accepts for the purpose of applying the law. The Judgement will run through the case law which is applicable to this type of case and, as no two situations are alike, whether the previous finding can be applied to the facts of this case or can be "distinguished". The Judge will apply all this in turn to each claim made by the parties. For these claims see the excellent posts by Addison. The Judgment will be produced "in draft" and sent under strict embargo to the parties for the purpose of allowing them to correct any obvious errors in, say, the precise word used by a witness. Once the corrections are made the Judgement is finalised and printed.

Whilst it is still possible for a Judge to appoint a day for all parties to come to Court and listen to a Judgment being read out this would be a massive waste of time. Therefore the Court appoints a day for the Judgment to be "handed down" and at 10.00 am the Judgment is published in the sense of a typed copy is available to the parties and in legal journals. That is the end of the case unless of course someone applies for permission to appeal. Of course each side will know beforehand what will happen and be ready to start their appeal arguments.

No, we don't know when Judgment day will be. I think this Judge has had a good look at the issues in this case for a long time and has probably done a fair bit of writing already. I reckon he might do it before August. If he doesn't then as the law closes throughout August then Sept/Oct is thought by some to be more realistic.
 
Snowman said:
No, we don't know when Judgment day will be. I think this Judge has had a good look at the issues in this case for a long time and has probably done a fair bit of writing already. I reckon he might do it before August. If he doesn't then as the law closes throughout August then Sept/Oct is thought by some to be more realistic.
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That was a very good explanation of what happens btw - thanks...

I'm just responding to the bit in quotes. McCabe said at the outset that the Judge will be conscious of "football seasons" when asked when it would be resolved. That sort of inferred the decision would be made before the start of the football season. I thought at the time, that may be a bit ambitious. I'm sure the judge is aware of "football seasons" but I doubt that is going to accelerate the process in any way.

It would be good to get a judgement on this case before the season starts - but it hasn't prevented Wilder from bringing in new signings so far - contrary to the title of this thread. Of course, we'd like to see a bit more action on that front - and I think we will - regardless of this court case.
 
Cerberus Blade said:
That was a very good explanation of what happens btw - thanks...

I'm just responding to the bit in quotes. McCabe said at the outset that the Judge will be conscious of "football seasons" when asked when it would be resolved. That sort of inferred the decision would be made before the start of the football season. I thought at the time, that may be a bit ambitious. I'm sure the judge is aware of "football seasons" but I doubt that is going to accelerate the process in any way.

It would be good to get a judgement on this case before the season starts - but it hasn't prevented Wilder from bringing in new signings so far - contrary to the title of this thread. Of course, we'd like to see a bit more action on that front - and I think we will - regardless of this court case.
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I think you are right that it was McCabe who made reference to the football season. Posters with better memories than me (Revolution had a good handle on the early skirmishes I think) may be able to refer to it but I think it was mentioned in the context of the parties asking for an expedited hearing because of the approaching 2019/20 season.
 
This quality post helps a bit.



South Bucks said:
I was in court on a day when the judge said something similar a few yards from me.

I don't tell fibs, twist and jump to unfounded conclusions on serious stuff as is common on here (not you Woody).

I don't think he mentioned the transfer window but he did say words to the effect he was conscious both parties wanted this case resolved before the coming season starts.

My non serious hunch is Wilder aint got a barrel of pennies up front due to this dispute and is probably trying to structure deals based on installments and iou's which not all will go along with. The fact the owners wont settle shows how both sides don't really care about the club and this season, imo.
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Woodwardfan said:
Wednesdayites couldn't write the script, it beggars belief.

SUFC income multiplies this year by way above £100m. In the Championship our income was around £20m.

We are in Court for another 3 weeks, who knows when the judgement will be made and whether there will be an appeal. In all likelihood there will be a split-ruling between the owners and then they have to find a way to work together anyway, at least to sell-up.. The season will probably be under way before any positive actions come from either party.

Should McCabe win 100% control then a takeover has to be undertaken and formalised. That can take weeks and weeks.

OK all this has been said before but my simple question is - "What is going to happen to all the extra money in the meantime?"

If rumours are true that the spending budget for this summer is only £20m. What happens to all the rest of the new cash?

The January Transfer Window will be an opportunity to invest in the playing squad but we all know the best deals don't happen then and incoming players need to settle into the club.

What's the earliest date that proper funding can be introduced for the manager to spend?

If Wilder is content to take on the Premier League with just the £20m then I'm worried anyway, despite his confidence and his achievements to date.

What happens to all the cash that is swishing around S2? The sale price of the club is supposed to be £140m if KM gains 100% control, it's obvious where that goes.

If we only spend £20m what profit will our club make during the 12 months we are relegated? Loads and loads! Even after that we receive monumental parachute payments. Then we will be recovering a downward momentum rather than building on our upward momentum.

Hey you two owners. Where's t'money gooing?
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Silent Blade said:
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Total mis-quote Silent, not like you, bit beneath you really.

My thread spiced up a very quiet time on General Blades Chat and it was in context of the dynamics of the cash flow, the transfer window and the selfishness of the owners at such a critical time in the club's history.

I quoted rumours of a £20m budget and said it needed to be at least twice that. I never said there was no transfer activity, just not enough.

Nobody is more delighted than me at progress to date with somewhere between £20m and £30m spent in transfer fees, probably £25m or so. The quality of the players imported for that sum of money is remarkable. Compared to Mings for £20m look what we get.

We still need that target man striker and maybe a holding midfielder/ centre back.

By the end of the transfer window I hope we haven't sold a key player and do get the above players. If we do then the squabbling owners will have done their bit at an awkward time. Such spending is within Wilder's comfort zone too. I'm glad we are not doing a 'Villa'.

Wilder talked yesterday of a couple more 'bits of business'. Bring it on.
 
Woodwardfan said:
Total mis-quote Silent, not like you, bit beneath you really.

My thread spiced up a very quiet time on General Blades Chat and it was in context of the dynamics of the cash flow, the transfer window and the selfishness of the owners at such a critical time in the club's history.

I quoted rumours of a £20m budget and said it needed to be at least twice that. I never said there was no transfer activity, just not enough.

Nobody is more delighted than me at progress to date with somewhere between £20m and £30m spent in transfer fees, probably £25m or so. The quality of the players imported for that sum of money is remarkable. Compared to Mings for £20m look what we get.

We still need that target man striker and maybe a holding midfielder/ centre back.

By the end of the transfer window I hope we haven't sold a key player and do get the above players. If we do then the squabbling owners will have done their bit at an awkward time. Such spending is within Wilder's comfort zone too. I'm glad we are not doing a 'Villa'.

Wilder talked yesterday of a couple more 'bits of business'. Bring it on.
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But the thread title was reactionary impatient nonsense. Our Premier League chances did not burn while the court case was ongoing – in fact its had no noticeable impact whatsoever, and as Wilder always maintained our transfer business pressed on regardless. We’ve done the vast majority of our business quicker than last year, with a greater number recruited with us spending more than any previous transfer window in the history of the club. And we’re not even done yet.
 
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