Evolution

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CoatesyBlade

CoatesyBlade

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I actually just posted this in the Osborn thread but then thought I’d like to know what you all thought. So it’s a copy and paste job for those that have already read it. Sorry.

I think we need to change our formation next season. I’ve loved how innovative it’s been, how it’s got us to where we are today... it’s been a joy to watch! 👍😁
But the roles are too specific. Imagine if Bash got injured now??
Ironically... moving to a back 4 however would probably mean loosing Bash to the bench. But I feel it’s something we have to look at moving forward.
The best teams in the World play 4-3-3 or
4-2-3-1... We at least need to be flexible enough to change should key players pick up injuries.

With the players we have currently it could go something like this:

Verrips
Baldock Egan O’Connell Stevens
Norwood Berge
Lundstram Fleck Freeman
Sharp

Or

Verrips
Baldock Egan O’Connell Osborn
Lundstram Berge Fleck
Zivkovic McBurnie Robinson
 

CoatesyBlade said:
I actually just posted this in the Osborn thread but then thought I’d like to know what you all thought. So it’s a copy and paste job for those that have already read it. Sorry.

I think we need to change our formation next season. I’ve loved how innovative it’s been, how it’s got us to where we are today... it’s been a joy to watch! 👍😁
But the roles are too specific. Imagine if Bash got injured now??
Ironically... moving to a back 4 however would probably mean loosing Bash to the bench. But I feel it’s something we have to look at moving forward.
The best teams in the World play 4-3-3 or
4-2-3-1... We at least need to be flexible enough to change should key players pick up injuries.

With the players we have currently it could go something like this:

Verrips
Baldock Egan O’Connell Stevens
Norwood Berge
Lundstram Fleck Freeman
Sharp

Or

Verrips
Baldock Egan O’Connell Osborn
Lundstram Berge Fleck
Zivkovic McBurnie Robinson
Click to expand...
How does Berge get into your line up on his showings so far. Other players deserve a chance to show what they can do in front of him.
 
Bladesthorpe said:
How does Berge get into your line up on his showings so far. Other players deserve a chance to show what they can do in front of him.
Click to expand...

Yeah that’s fine mate. The post is more about the change of formation. The examples were just that.
 
CoatesyBlade said:
I actually just posted this in the Osborn thread but then thought I’d like to know what you all thought. So it’s a copy and paste job for those that have already read it. Sorry.

I think we need to change our formation next season. I’ve loved how innovative it’s been, how it’s got us to where we are today... it’s been a joy to watch! 👍😁
But the roles are too specific. Imagine if Bash got injured now??
Ironically... moving to a back 4 however would probably mean loosing Bash to the bench. But I feel it’s something we have to look at moving forward.
The best teams in the World play 4-3-3 or
4-2-3-1... We at least need to be flexible enough to change should key players pick up injuries.

With the players we have currently it could go something like this:

Verrips
Baldock Egan O’Connell Stevens
Norwood Berge
Lundstram Fleck Freeman
Sharp

Or

Verrips
Baldock Egan O’Connell Osborn
Lundstram Berge Fleck
Zivkovic McBurnie Robinson
Click to expand...

The way things are going if half of those named above are still within the starting 11 come next season we really will be in the shit.
 
originaltrueblade said:
You leave Basham Alone
Click to expand...

I love Bash. Probably my fav player. I’m just talking about how to improve. The break didn’t help obviously. But we can’t put ourselves in this position again... that’s the point.
 
Seems I shouldn’t have put 2 team examples up as a few are missing the point here...
I’ll do one more to appease folk.

Moore
Baldock Bash O’Connell Stevens
Berge Norwood Fleck
Zivkovic McGoldrick Robinson
 
Bladesthorpe said:
How does Berge get into your line up on his showings so far. Other players deserve a chance to show what they can do in front of him.
Click to expand...

Not answering your question (relevant to the OP) but I can't help but think Berge has been signed with one eye to the future and changing the formation.

I refuse to believe that Wilder will have pursued a big signing like that (arguably one we didn't particularly need at the time) just to shoehorn him into a role he's never going to succeed in. What would be the point? Spending big so we look like a big shot PL club? Not a chance.

I know the Prince definitely wanted him but Wilder won't be dictated to from above regarding transfers, so it can't be that either. Perhaps we had to move quicker than we'd have liked because it would've been harder/more expensive in the summer?

There are plans for Berge, I'm sure. He needs to get up to speed with the physicality (a stiff breeze would probably blow him over) and pace of the game and play in a position better suited to him. Unfortunately when we're light on bodies, he'll have to play where he's told to play for the remainder of the mini season.
 
I do think that these final games are an opportunity to try things for next year, both in terms of personnel and tactics. However, our defensive players are clearly better suited to a back three and our defensive record speaks for itself. It's really about what we do ahead of that.
 
I'd not be ripping up the blueprint that has been so successful for us for 4 years in the back 5.
However I'd definitely revert to the one in behind the strikers for the rest of the season.
 
TomJonesBlade said:
Not answering your question (relevant to the OP) but I can't help but think Berge has been signed with one eye to the future and changing the formation.

I refuse to believe that Wilder will have pursued a big signing like that (arguably one we didn't particularly need at the time) just to shoehorn him into a role he's never going to succeed in. What would be the point? Spending big so we look like a big shot PL club? Not a chance.

I know the Prince definitely wanted him but Wilder won't be dictated to from above regarding transfers, so it can't be that either. Perhaps we had to move quicker than we'd have liked because it would've been harder/more expensive in the summer?

There are plans for Berge, I'm sure. He needs to get up to speed with the physicality (a stiff breeze would probably blow him over) and pace of the game and play in a position better suited to him. Unfortunately when we're light on bodies, he'll have to play where he's told to play for the remainder of the mini season.
Click to expand...
It’s not spending big though. He cost less than Tyrone Mings. Tyrone fucking Mings. We really need to get our heads round the fact that whatever we have or haven’t spent in the past is irrelevant, it’s 2020 and we’re in the PL. On paper, we should be in the bottom three. We’ve punched massively above our weight before the break. As we did last season, getting promoted over teams with much bigger budgets. There are only so many miracles that Wilder can do. Covid has really fucked us up, we’ve lost money we needed and momentum.
It’s concerning and there’s little we can do about it other than hope for the best.
 

I completely disagree with the OP (with respect).

IMO the formation is not the problem. It suits us, it's very entertaining, and no, I don't think anyone has really 'worked us out'. When we play our 'rotating triangles' we look fantastic when in full flow.

Our problem at the moment is a complete lack of desire, bollocks, and attitude. We aren't committing ourselves like we have done for the season before the break. It's a 'different Sheffield United' at the moment and that is not the formation at fault.

let's get back to where we were before we start trying to fix something that we don't yet know is broken.

UTB
 
Chabuddy G said:
I'd not be ripping up the blueprint that has been so successful for us for 4 years in the back 5.
However I'd definitely revert to the one in behind the strikers for the rest of the season.
Click to expand...

It’s not a question of ripping it up. It’s more a concern that we don’t have anyone that can play the Bash & JOC roles... we could hope that we find a couple of gems in the summer but the chances of that are highly unlikely as the roles are so unique.
 
FredZeppelin said:
I completely disagree with the OP (with respect).

IMO the formation is not the problem. It suits us, it's very entertaining, and no, I don't think anyone has really 'worked us out'. When we play our 'rotating triangles' we look fantastic when in full flow.

Our problem at the moment is a complete lack of desire, bollocks, and attitude. We aren't committing ourselves like we have done for the season before the break. It's a 'different Sheffield United' at the moment and that is not the formation at fault.

let's get back to where we were before we start trying to fix something that we don't yet know is broken.

UTB
Click to expand...

This is the kind of response I was looking for so no need to put with respect.
For the most part I agree with everything you’ve said. I’m not looking for a knee jerk reaction at all. I’m just worried that we have two very unique players in Bash and JOC that can’t be replaced with what we’ve got. I do agree though that current form has some other issues too. But like I put in my first post... can you imagine if Bash got an injury now too? What would we do?
 
BushBlade said:
It’s not spending big though. He cost less than Tyrone Mings. Tyrone fucking Mings. We really need to get our heads round the fact that whatever we have or haven’t spent in the past is irrelevant, it’s 2020 and we’re in the PL. On paper, we should be in the bottom three. We’ve punched massively above our weight before the break. As we did last season, getting promoted over teams with much bigger budgets. There are only so many miracles that Wilder can do. Covid has really fucked us up, we’ve lost money we needed and momentum.
It’s concerning and there’s little we can do about it other than hope for the best.
Click to expand...

You're only picking up on a tiny bit of my point there! And as I said, we've not signed him to try and do that. Might be a big fee for us, but not in general as you point out (although I would add the caveat that Mings is a bad example as he was as overpriced as he is overrated).
 
TomJonesBlade said:
You're only picking up on a tiny bit of my point there! And as I said, we've not signed him to try and do that. Might be a big fee for us, but not in general as you point out (although I would add the caveat that Mings is a bad example as he was as overpriced as he is overrated).
Click to expand...
That’s because I don’t really disagree with the rest of it.
 
I can't imagine it being a popular opinion on here, but do you really think your idea of essentially 'matching up' with teams formation wise in this league is wise?

In my opinion, there's not many sides in this league that are weaker than Blades on an individual player by player basis.
There are stand outs like O'Connell/Fleck, but the strength of the team is exactly that, it is very very good at playing as a team.

There's no doubt the team needs to evolve, but too quickly is a huge risk.
 
CoatesyBlade said:
It’s not a question of ripping it up. It’s more a concern that we don’t have anyone that can play the Bash & JOC roles... we could hope that we find a couple of gems in the summer but the chances of that are highly unlikely as the roles are so unique.
Click to expand...
I think Bash is more straight forward simply due to how many right footers there are. Even Martin Cranie proved he could do a job in that role.

Think LCB is practically impossible. I'm struggling to think of one left footed player in the world that could do what JOC can do, he's the key to the back 5 for me. Tyrone Mings is literally the closest I've got but he's not as good technically as JOC and he's a wanker.
 
Chabuddy G said:
I think Bash is more straight forward simply due to how many right footers there are. Even Martin Cranie proved he could do a job in that role.

Think LCB is practically impossible. I'm struggling to think of one left footed player in the world that could do what JOC can do, he's the key to the back 5 for me. Tyrone Mings is literally the closest I've got but he's not as good technically as JOC and he's a wanker.
Click to expand...

Alaba would be sensational in the JOC role but...erm, he’s probably just a bit beyond our price range...
 
How does the phrase go? Something about baby and bathwater I think.
 
For those disputing these types of threads. These recommendations aren't about dismantling the system that got us here due to purely post lockdown performances but about trying to reinvigorate some of that flair that got us here. Even before lockdown up-till now our attacking output is dwindling and amongst the lowest in the league. Id love for this system to work as it has earlier within the season but we are becoming more and more predictable and toothless due to it at the moment.
 
SouthEssexBlade said:
Exactly, something that has been more or less a total success for 120 games gets ditched on the evidence of 3.
Click to expand...

It’s about evolving my friend. Last season we played with a triangle in midfield, this season it’s a flat 3. Adaptation is something that I’m sure CWAK are working on behind the scenes. It’s not to be confused with knee jerk reaction.
 
CoatesyBlade said:
It’s about evolving my friend. Last season we played with a triangle in midfield, this season it’s a flat 3. Adaptation is something that I’m sure CWAK are working on behind the scenes. It’s not to be confused with knee jerk reaction.
Click to expand...

But what you are suggesting isn't 'evolution' (like the Duffy for Lunny tweak), it's 'transformation' into a wholly different system that a lot of teams with more resources adopt. We really don't want to go 'toe-to-toe' with those teams, playing their way. The beauty of our system is it works for us given what we have and it's unique. We are the best team that plays it as it's a fluid team system that doesn't require a stand-out player or players.

I don't doubt in time we'll 'evolve' but it's early days and personally, I love watching how we play (when we actually turn up, that is). It's 'our kind of entertainment'. Brave, gutsy, original, and exciting. More of it I say until it becomes ineffective or we find something better.

UTB
 

BushBlade said:
It’s not spending big though. He cost less than Tyrone Mings. Tyrone fucking Mings. We really need to get our heads round the fact that whatever we have or haven’t spent in the past is irrelevant, it’s 2020 and we’re in the PL. On paper, we should be in the bottom three. We’ve punched massively above our weight before the break. As we did last season, getting promoted over teams with much bigger budgets. There are only so many miracles that Wilder can do. Covid has really fucked us up, we’ve lost money we needed and momentum.
It’s concerning and there’s little we can do about it other than hope for the best.
Click to expand...

Absolutely this!

Spunking moneh isn't an option, but we really do need to improve the ability or depth of ability in the squad.

I read somewhere else that the restart has been a great leveller in that it's taken momentum, crowds, atmosphere and histrionics out of the game - so all we're left with is 11 v 11 in a sterile setting where ultimately the team with the best technical players will win!!

Thought it summed our situation up much better than name calling our striker and questioning Tufty!
 
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