Doncaster -surely perfect for Clough ?

[metalblade]

The trouble is for every positive Nigel Clough had three negatives, a manager who refused to field a team with centre backs in a play off semi due to his own stubbornness in my view deserves no respect, non at all.

 

[itsinyerblood]

TARGET AUDIENCE - PEOPLE THAT CALL NIGEL CLOUGH AS "NEGATIVE NIGEL"

RIGHT, I'm gunna have my say now. Not about Donny, but about Nigel Clough. I liked him! Now by reading cmoments above it seems as though it's a crime to like Nigel Clough which I DO NOT understand! Yes, the football was boring and defensive. Yes, he fell out and flogged potentially good players. But, everyone seems to have a selective memory on here because if you can't remember, this "negative Nigel" gave us two wonderful major cup runs in two years (not quite Warnock, but nearly) and people seem to forget that. Point taken - he didn't meet his objective to get us promoted out of this league, but in response he gave us some memorable days/nights that we'll never forget such as Villa, Fulham, Forest, Charlton, Hull (despite the defeat), WHU, QPR, Southampton, Spurs (again, despite the defeat). Want some more?... Beating Rotherham in the final min with kids and Steve Evans interview post match was hilarious!. Colchester were we were 2-0 down with 10 to go and BEAT them 3-2 somehow! Gillingham were we conceded with 5 to go and BEAT them 2-1 with Murphy scoring a memorable goal. Doncaster were we had a man sent off, our goalie saved a penalty, and Murphy winning the goal of the season in the space of 90 seconds. Barnsley - fantastic away performance with 5500 blades fans. Above all, we had a 10 match winning streak under the negative one and as some have quoted "worst manager ever". Don't make me laugh! You know you miss the cup runs and the adrenaline of beating a team in the old first division...GO ON, ADMIT IT! Nigel Adkins's football is more attractive and positive and could be better than Clough's tactics. He could even win the league! But remember, Clough gave us two wonderful cup runs whether you like it... or not! I just think Clough deserves a bit of respect and credit for this, rather than pick out all the negatives and no positives (like most users of this forum). Im sorry to say but I liked Nigel Clough and this is the first time I've spoken out regarding his sacking. I liked Clough, please don't kick my head in!

End of rant and UTB!

Jimmy, that could be straight out of a page from 'Cloughaholics', where each seated participant takes their turn, slowly rises from their seat, and then makes a declaration of what brought them there. As the tears flowed, how the numerous stories of Clough-love broke up friendships, of how families were torn apart, and how other Clough-lovers knew that NC was their very own footballing Stalin in waiting. Oh the joy, after far too many seasons of despair and regret, we had Clough, no, not the Clough, not that one, but his spawn, appearing to have the same high standards, the same air of 'don't mess with me' about him, and how this was mistakenly viewed as the mark of a man born to be king! It wasn't to be Jimmy, just repeat to yersen, 'I may not have the Nigel I wanted, but I now have the Nigel I deserve'.....it'll all be well in the end fella, trust in Nigel.

 

[davidpinder]

I'd rather he didn't join them, does anyone really want him to have the same effect he had on us when he took over? the least amount of clubs we have to worry about the better IMO.

 

[madeinsheffield]

Very good fit? Why? Do Donny fans like watching boring, negative shite?

They did with Sean O'Driscoll

 

[1danewhitehouse]

It seems there are a few people suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder on this thread. Come on guys, it’s only September.

Re Clough, to say he was shite is a much too simplistic view. I’m sure Burton fans don’t think he was shite. He seems to divide opinion though.

Ultimately, I don’t think his style and philosophy matched our ambitions and the expectations given the size of the club and the position we were in.

He did some good things (cup runs, Che, Brayford, giving debuts to the likes of Reed, Dimaio, Khan, DCL etc). He also did some bad things (falling out with players, deviating from the few quality additions he spoke of, being too negative etc). Overall, he came up short for us but that doesn’t make him an awful manager. He’s far better than Weir or Robson and probably at least on par with, if not better than the likes of Adams, Blackwell etc.

He could be a decent fit for Donny although I suspect that would be the end of Butler. They do have a previous Clough target on the books in Andy Williams too. If he got the job, hopefully, he might take Alcock, Coutts and maybe 1 or 2 others off our hands (possibly players like Scougall, McEveley etc.).

 

[Jan Age]

Clough has got to be one of the strangest managers I have ever come across in the Utd hot seat.

Year 1 (or 3/4) - Did exceptionally well - no denying it - took a team languishing in the bottom 3 and propelled them up the table - with a great cup run to boot - just missed out on the playoffs - fantastic.

Year 2 - ???? - it was as if he was a completely different person - single handedly undid all the good work from the year before - fell out with players, board members, isolated the fans, signed substandard players, "started with a point" and then IMO committed the unforgivable act of entering the most important two games in our season with no recognised CBs.

The scary thing about this is, that I live in Derby and this is exactly what they said would happen... Exactly.

I personally think he would be a good fit for DCFC as they have lower expectations than us.

I also think the bloke has issues that go beyond just football and he probably needs to seek help (seriously)

 

[grafikhaus]

Re Clough, to say he was shite is a much too simplistic view. I’m sure Burton fans don’t think he was shite. He seems to divide opinion though.

He certainly did, but any argument about his managerial abilities surely begins and ends with this. Nineteen seasons as a manager and his only - 'successes' were 2008-09 (Winning the Conference Premier) and 2001-02 (Winning the Northern Premier League). He's had enough time to prove his worth as a manager in the Football League and consistently failed.

Hearing a Donnie fan on FH last night suggesting Clough made me realise that some managers, however poor, eventually re-appear after getting a huge, unwarranted pay-off. It was almost as ludicrous a suggestion as Brian The Blade putting himself forward for the job...

 

[1danewhitehouse]

He certainly did, but any argument about his managerial abilities surely begins and ends with this. Nineteen seasons as a manager and his only - 'successes' were 2008-09 (Winning the Conference Premier) and 2001-02 (Winning the Northern Premier League). He's had enough time to prove his worth as a manager in the Football League and consistently failed.

Hearing a Donnie fan on FH last night suggesting Clough made me realise that some managers, however poor, eventually re-appear after getting a huge, unwarranted pay-off. It was almost as ludicrous a suggestion as Brian The Blade putting himself forward for the job...

Would his first season at Derby and his first season with us not count as "successes" in that he turned the sinking ships around to keep the respective clubs up? Would his cup runs not count as some sort of success? When at non-league Burton, he managed to hold Man U in the cup (keeping a strikeforce of Solskjaer and Saha quiet) to secure a money spinning replay at Old Trafford. Is that not success.

Don't get me wrong by the way, I much prefer Adkins. My stance at the time was let's not sack Clough for the sake of it but if we could get someone with a fantastic CV like Adkins or Lambert, I was all for it. I just don't think Clough is nearly as bad as some make out although I also don't think he's as good as Adkins.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

Adkins doesn't seem to think he inherited a massive squad packed full of shite, sub-standard players.
He hasn't yet offloaded a single one or even given the impression that he has tried to.

Rarely does a manager get to come into a club in such good shape that it just needs a bit of tinkering to take it to the next level.
Clough certainly didn't inherit that situation from Weir but that's how he left it. I'm sure Adkins would agree.

 

[grafikhaus]

Would his first season at Derby and his first season with us not count as "successes" in that he turned the sinking ships around to keep the respective clubs up? Would his cup runs not count as some sort of success? When at non-league Burton, he managed to hold Man U in the cup (keeping a strikeforce of Solskjaer and Saha quiet) to secure a money spinning replay at Old Trafford. Is that not success.

Both United and Derby were hardly 'teetering on the brink' when Clough took over. In our case, Weir was such an unmitigated disaster that I reckon anyone could have prevented us going down - me, thee or Brian the Blade. When Clough came in, he had 33 League games to 'save' us - that's 99 points to play for. And he hardly brought the 'new manager syndrome' with him. His first 14 games yielded just fourteen points. After that, we went on an excellent 7-game winning run but after that, and with 12 games to the end of the season, we 'tailed off' and got just 19 points. And that's Clough. He flatters to deceive.

Sure the Cup runs were fantastic - games I'll always remember. But if that's all that's attracting Donnie, good luck. Because after the 'Jester hats' have been put away and the hangover is gone, a look at next season's fixtures will reveal that you're still in Division Three.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Possibly grafikhaus. Not saying he would get them up. I acknowledge your comments re Derby and us staying up but would you not consider those successful seasons for the manager? Surely the remit was to stay up and rid the club of some deadwood at the end of the season which he did. Arguably, he brought in too much deadwood of his own though.

 

[Ricky]

Clough's far too good for Donny. He'll wait until a job like Sunderland or Nottingham Forest becomes available and expect to walk straight into it with the license to do whatever he likes with the club.

 

[OllyBlade]

Adkins doesn't seem to think he inherited a massive squad packed full of shite, sub-standard players.
He hasn't yet offloaded a single one or even given the impression that he has tried to.

He said in the transfer window that he wasn't looking to bring in numbers as we had that, but quality. He also said in the summer the squad wasn't good enough for promotion. These things are getting close to saying the squad is massive and substandard, but through his positivity filter maybe! I think there will definitely be one or two players he is trying/has tried to offload.

I think his assessment of the squad was that it was solid but lacked star players in key positions (up front and central defence). This has been borne out by his transfer policy.

 

[metalblade]

We all go on about the cup runs which were fantastic but they tell me one thing about the way Clough approached games in the cup you have to play to win at some point in the game a draw is no good. The difference in league games is the fact that if you don't win the game the next best thing is to draw the game, this fell nicely into Clough's first priority which was not to lose the game.
Notice in Clough's first season with us the slow start but once we were relatively safe we were playing catch up for the top six and had the freedom to go for it, the results then improved dramatically until we were within reach of the sixth spot, then the don't lose attitude kicked in again and results tailed off. Remember Clough had little to lose after following Weir. Next season it was his team and more pressure to get results Clough played not to lose first and anything more was a bonus this resulted in some of the most boring football I have witnessed at the lane in a very long time which is a shame because I think with the players we had we could have done a lot better. A major part of what held us back was Clough's fear of losing.

 

[BushBlade]

We all go on about the cup runs which were fantastic but they tell me one thing about the way Clough approached games in the cup you have to play to win at some point in the game a draw is no good. The difference in league games is the fact that if you don't win the game the next best thing is to draw the game, this fell nicely into Clough's first priority which was not to lose the game.
Notice in Clough's first season with us the slow start but once we were relatively safe we were playing catch up for the top six and had the freedom to go for it, the results then improved dramatically until we were within reach of the sixth spot, then the don't lose attitude kicked in again and results tailed off. Remember Clough had little to lose after following Weir. Next season it was his team and more pressure to get results Clough played not to lose first and anything more was a bonus this resulted in some of the most boring football I have witnessed at the lane in a very long time which is a shame because I think with the players we had we could have done a lot better. A major part of what held us back was Clough's fear of losing.

I think it's known as 'Blackwell's disease'.

 

[grafikhaus]

We all go on about the cup runs which were fantastic but they tell me one thing about the way Clough approached games in the cup you have to play to win at some point in the game a draw is no good. The difference in league games is the fact that if you don't win the game the next best thing is to draw the game, this fell nicely into Clough's first priority which was not to lose the game.
Notice in Clough's first season with us the slow start but once we were relatively safe we were playing catch up for the top six and had the freedom to go for it, the results then improved dramatically until we were within reach of the sixth spot, then the don't lose attitude kicked in again and results tailed off. Remember Clough had little to lose after following Weir. Next season it was his team and more pressure to get results Clough played not to lose first and anything more was a bonus this resulted in some of the most boring football I have witnessed at the lane in a very long time which is a shame because I think with the players we had we could have done a lot better. A major part of what held us back was Clough's fear of losing.

This is actually an excellent point and sums up the cautious/adventurous/cautious nature of Clough's first season.

 

[TonyAgana]

It is you and your SAD mates who carry on with the Clough Agenda

 

[Slim Man]

He hasn't got it in him to get a team promoted at this level, it took him 10 years to build a team to get up from the Conference, even then it wasn't him who got the job done.
Too cautious, too dictatorial and too arrogant with not much tactical nous to back it up.

I'd love to have seen him succeed here, United being led up the leagues by the son of Brian Clough would have been the most romantic story in football, unfortunately it didn't happen and it all went very sour at the lane.

If he takes the Donny job, we better prepare for two hard one-off games both at BL and the Keepquiet, but over a long run in the league it's fair to say we'd be able to rule Donny out the chase.