Do we really need Leonard AND Holmes?

[Scooter_mcgavin]

Both will cost a fee and both will probably be on decent wages (by decent I'm talking 7-10k p/w).

This would give us Midfield options of:

Coutts,
Duffy
Fleck,
Carruthers,
Holmes,
Leonard

That's a max of 3 positions between 6 players. My question is, do we really need them both when we have potential cover in the youth team?

Is it actually worth getting Holmes (and lets be right, he'll be fighting with Carruthers and Duffy for a single spot), when we have a cheaper alternative in Brookes?

For the cost of the player, couple of hundred k and a decent enough contract, I think it's worth spending this on the Defence and using the likes of Brookes sparingly as a squad option.

 

[SteveBlade]

Holmes is just another quality attacking player, it'd be healthy to have him, Duffy and Carruthers competing for a spot. Two could play together at times.

Leonard is a different player entirely. From all accounts, he's an athletic box to box midfielder who's not scared to put a foot in. Also chips in with a few goals. He'd be a valuable addition, we don't have anyone like him.

 

[Ben_1982]

But what about Graham Carey

 

[Dellas Cowboys]

Both will cost a fee and both will probably be on decent wages (by decent I'm talking 7-10k p/w).

This would give us Midfield options of:

Coutts,
Duffy
Fleck,
Carruthers,
Holmes,
Leonard

That's a max of 3 positions between 6 players. My question is, do we really need them both when we have potential cover in the youth team?

Is it actually worth getting Holmes (and lets be right, he'll be fighting with Carruthers and Duffy for a single spot), when we have a cheaper alternative in Brookes?

For the cost of the player, couple of hundred k and a decent enough contract, I think it's worth spending this on the Defence and using the likes of Brookes sparingly as a squad option.

Yes "Sugar" Ray and Larry would sort out this division.

 

[BushBlade]

But what about Graham Carey

He's a left sided attacking midfielder isn't he?

 

[Ben_1982]

He's a left sided attacking midfielder isn't he?

No idea to be fair, another middy tho

 

[blade too long]

what about Mariah Carey

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

what about Mariah Carey

20 years ago yeah, not sure now

 

[Ricky]

A solid athletic midfielder is necessary - Leonard.

A number 10 we can fully rely on is necessary. Someone with ability, end product, fitness and consistency - Holmes.

Sometimes it would be a case of 3 players for one position (number 10), but playing with two of them supporting one striker is also an option.

I do agree that our recruitment should factor Brooks in - if for once we don't plan to cash in. He's not got PL interest for nothing. He's probably our best current option for the attacking right wing position. But signing Graham Carey on a free is very tempting.

 

[blade too long]

 

[snootyfenooty]

20 years ago yeah, not sure now

She was interviewed on C4 at the Formula 1 on Sunday. She looked like a fucking whale and was only capable of uttering vacuous comments. In doing so she managed to both look like and sound like a pig.

 

[Scooter_mcgavin]

She was interviewed on C4 at the Formula 1 on Sunday. She looked like a fucking whale and was only capable of uttering vacuous comments. In doing so she managed to both look like and sound like a pig.

Not seen her for years, wasn't she recently pregnant?

 

[Boxer Blade]

She was interviewed on C4 at the Formula 1 on Sunday. She looked like a fucking whale and was only capable of uttering vacuous comments. In doing so she managed to both look like and sound like a pig.

What are her bad points then snoots?

 

[snootyfenooty]

Not seen her for years, wasn't she recently pregnant?

If she was I don't know how. With the intelligence she demonstrated she probably thinks her fanny is just for pissing out of.

 

[snootyfenooty]

What are her bad points then snoots?

I think parody just about sums her up.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Both will cost a fee and both will probably be on decent wages (by decent I'm talking 7-10k p/w).

This would give us Midfield options of:

Coutts,
Duffy
Fleck,
Carruthers,
Holmes,
Leonard

That's a max of 3 positions between 6 players. My question is, do we really need them both when we have potential cover in the youth team?

Is it actually worth getting Holmes (and lets be right, he'll be fighting with Carruthers and Duffy for a single spot), when we have a cheaper alternative in Brookes?

For the cost of the player, couple of hundred k and a decent enough contract, I think it's worth spending this on the Defence and using the likes of Brookes sparingly as a squad option.

To which I say,

GEYORE!

Brooks isn't staying. Hasn't that penny dropped for you yet? Did you really believe it when we said, "we need to take a closer look at him?" Jayzus! The lad's been training with the first team all last season - we know what he's about! You don't have to be a detective to work that one out. He's been brought back because we want to rub him down with Turtle Wax and prepare him for a sale!

I have mixed feelings about this. Brooks is probably the best talent to emerge from our Academy since Harry Maguire. He will go for big money in the not too distant future. But, for now, he's a 19 year old in a 15 year old's body. That's why he hasn't featured much. But talent-wise - he's the real deal. More so than DCL.

Holmes, if he comes, won't be a bit-part player. He'll be first choice as a wide player. Duffy is a different animal. Duffy plays across the whole width of the pitch in the traditional "number 10" role. He's a creator. Carruthers...well...I'm not sure what he is tbh. Flashes of brilliance and long periods of mediocrity. Excuses made about him not doing "a full pre-season", but I don't fully buy that. Let's see what he does, but I think he's the "bit-part" player of those three.

We are going to bring a defender in don't worry. It may cost us a pre-pubescent youth to do so. But it will happen.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Anyway, back on topic. Leonard is what we need. That frees up Basham to his best position at wide CB. Holmes is overrated. He's 30 now and at this age there isn't much upside. Assuming Leonard starts, who's going to make way for Holmes - Fleck or Coutts? There's not much point in buying him to sit on the bench and I don't think that will be his wish either at this stage of his career. Additionally, he's one of those players who seems to reserve his best performances against us so I think that may have clouded a few judgements.

So in reply to the OP, we need Leonard but we don't need Holmes.

 

[JJBlade]

It's always a good idea to sign better players
Barcelona right this very second and for every second of the last 15 years have been scouring the globe looking for the next Messi
They probably have him already in their academy but it won't stop them looking for the next one after him and the one after that as well.

Then we have the brainwashed by failure Sheffield United fans that think 7-10k a week is astronomical for a Championship Club

 

[Bladeinleeds]

Look at the strength in depth of some of these championship sides and it's pretty frightening.

We were lucky with injuries to some extent last year but coutts and fleck being out at the same time would leave us stretched. I'd argue we'd need both and potentially another winger.

Holmes and Duffy / Samir for the AM role

2 from fleck / coutts / Leonard / Samir in the middle

Thomas / Samir / & i'd be tempted by another if we wanna play with wingers. (Carey??)

Then you'd supplement that with brooks (if still here) and whiteman (assuming we have a recall)

If we can afford to have 6 players for 3 positions and can keep them happy we should do it.

I do Think Leonard would be the more key one to get over the line with bash in defence we don't have that physical box to box midfielder on the books.

 

[BushBlade]

Look at the strength in depth of some of these championship sides and it's pretty frightening.

We were lucky with injuries to some extent last year but coutts and fleck being out at the same time would leave us stretched. As argue we'd need both and potentially another winger.

Holmes and Duffy / Samir for the AM role

2 from fleck / coutts / Leonard / Samir

Thomas / Samir / & i'd be tempted by another if we wanna play with wingers. (Carey??)

Hen you'd supplement that with brooks and whiteman (assuming we have a recall)

If we can afford to have 6 players for 3 positions and can keep them happy we should do it.

I do Think Leonard would be the more key one to get over the line with bash in defence we don't have that physical box to box midfielder on the books.

I don't think you can do recalls. The earliest we'll be able to get Whiteman back is the JTW. I think CW will have to give Brooks a chance early on, to stop him getting his agent to give Everton the nod. Assuming that hasn't already happened.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

It's always a good idea to sign better players
Barcelona right this very second and for every second of the last 15 years have been scouring the globe looking for the next Messi
They probably have him already in their academy but it won't stop them looking for the next one after him and the one after that as well.

Then we have the brainwashed by failure Sheffield United fans that think 7-10k a week is astronomical for a Championship Club

I don't think it's that mate. I think we are financially not very strong at the present time. And before folks poo-poo that, just think for a moment that a club our size, with all the overheads, operating in Division 3 for 6 years really isn't good. I don't know if Sheff Utd do long term plans, I get the impression not! But in most businesses you'd have a minimum 5 year plan with projected revenues. When we fell out of the Championship that took a real dive. If we'd budgeted on being Championship or Premiership again, which I'm pretty sure we must have, then the last 6 years have been a financial disaster.

We are going to have to make up some ground financially. We seem to have found a manager, that can find players from lower divisions, on small wages, that can compete at a higher level. This is a real bonus to us. Because if we can make up some lost revenues with little outlay then it's a storming result and one which can turn the whole club around.

I've said it before, but my only concern about the current set-up is, will they actually be prepared to pay that bit extra for someone special who could really push the club along? I'm not sure we will tbh. It's not a "Sheffield" thing to pay good money for quality things. Sorry to say that and don't wish to offend - but it's not. This is the "bargain-basement" city in the entire country. People here "love" a bargain to the point of not appreciating that it's sometimes worth paying more for quality. The only doubt I have about Wilder - and don't get me wrong, I think he's a brilliant manager, one of the very, very best ever, but he has this "Sheffield" thing about spending "moneh". And that, I think, could eventually be his downfall.

 

[Bladeinleeds]

I don't think it's that mate. I think we are financially not very strong at the present time. And before folks poo-poo that, just think for a moment that a club our size, with all the overheads, operating in Division 3 for 6 years really isn't good. I don't know if Sheff Utd do long term plans, I get the impression not! But in most businesses you'd have a minimum 5 year plan with projected revenues. When we fell out of the Championship that took a real dive. If we'd budgeted on being Championship or Premiership again, which I'm pretty sure we must have, then the last 6 years have been a financial disaster.

We are going to have to make up some ground financially. We seem to have found a manager, that can find players from lower divisions, on small wages, that can compete at a higher level. This is a real bonus to us. Because if we can make up some lost revenues with little outlay then it's a storming result and one which can turn the whole club around.

I've said it before, but my only concern about the current set-up is, will they actually be prepared to pay that bit extra for someone special who could really push the club along? I'm not sure we will tbh. It's not a "Sheffield" thing to pay good money for quality things. Sorry to say that and don't wish to offend - but it's not. This is the "bargain-basement" city in the entire country. People here "love" a bargain to the point of not appreciating that it's sometimes worth paying more for quality. The only doubt I have about Wilder - and don't get me wrong, I think he's a brilliant manager, one of the very, very best ever, but he has this "Sheffield" thing about spending "moneh". And that, I think, could eventually be his downfall.

Can see the argument than wilder likes a bargain. And maybe an extra couple of 100k could get signings over the line.

But don't think we can say yet he wouldn't be prepared to slash out if he saw the right player. He's worked a clubs in financial hardship pretty much his entire career and never had that luxury to spend that money. He's happy to work in a budget and has stayed he enjoys working to that.

We were obviously cash strapped last year after 6 years but I do think if given the budgets of Adkins and clough he'd have spent that not kept it.

People do need to get the message we arnt push overs tho - think we've been held to Ransom before because of our desperation to get out of L1.

 

[coolhandluke]

Do we need them both . Emphatically yes .

Do we have a product of the Academy who should come before both of them ? Even emphaticallilly yesser .

Will Brooks get his chance? Emphatically not .

When will you gullible fools stop listening to that lying twat Wilder . Emphatically never .

Jesus wept guys . Wilder taking a closer look at Brooks means he's gone . Wakey wakey

 

[snootyfenooty]

When will you gullible fools stop listening to that lying twat Wilder . Emphatically never .

You've done it now. Cue meltdown.

 

[BushBlade]

I do wonder what the long term plan is. The owners didn't seem happy losing £5-6m in L1, per season. But from the figures I've seen, most championship clubs are losing more than that. I realise that there are some very badly run clubs but they can't all be run by idiots. All these owners have made serious money so they're not business illiterate. And whilst there are a few questionable foreign managers around atm, there's also quite a few experienced managers with good track records, who know what they're doing.

So, if these clubs find it difficult to compete without losing £10m a season there's not much to suggest we are going to find a way to compete by spending significantly less. The best manager I've seen at the Lane, Bassett, failed when Deano was sold and he was starved of funds. We can't just rely on Wilder to sort it out. At some point he'll need money. Where's it going to come from?

 

[coolhandluke]

You've done it now. Cue meltdown.

Seriously snooty , and I mean really really seriously , how can the likes of you and all them other twerples listen to Wilder and believe owt that comes out of his trap ? Seriously ???? Really seriously ????? We are looking at Brooks more closely hahahahahahaha . Betis knows the score , how long before everyone else sees right through the liar of bramall lane ?

 

[snootyfenooty]

I do wonder what the long term plan is. The owners didn't seem happy losing £5-6m in L1, per season. But from the figures I've seen, most championship clubs are losing more than that. I realise that there are some very badly run clubs but they can't all be run by idiots. All these owners have made serious money so they're not business illiterate. And whilst there are a few questionable foreign managers around atm, there's also quite a few experienced managers with good track records, who know what they're doing.

So, if these clubs find it difficult to compete without losing £10m a season there's not much to suggest we are going to find a way to compete by spending significantly less. The best manager I've seen at the Lane, Bassett, failed when Deano was sold and he was starved of funds. We can't just rely on Wilder to sort it out. At some point he'll need money. Where's it going to come from?

The way I see it United are in a massive Catch-22. It's been reported that the academy costs about £4m a year to run. This is not too far off the figure we've been losing every year for the past 6 or 7 years. Other than that, it appears the club has been a tightly run ship apart from the Clough blow-out. So what do we do? Close the academy or accept that we have to sell it's produce to pay for it's upkeep? The only way we can reap the benefit of the academy is if we are in or closing in on the premiership.

That United are going to get an Abrahmovic-type owner is akin to one of us winning the lottery. It ain't going to happen. So we're stuck in a groundhog day situation until we fluke our way out of it. Other than this I don't have a suggestion.

 

[snootyfenooty]

Seriously snooty , and I mean really really seriously , how can the likes of you and all them other twerples listen to Wilder and believe owt that comes out of his trap ? Seriously ???? Really seriously ????? We are looking at Brooks more closely hahahahahahaha . Betis knows the score , how long before everyone else sees right through the liar of bramall lane ?

Hey listen mate, I've seen more false dawns than most on this forum so I'm the least likely to get carried away by the Wilder craze. What I do see is our best prospects for about 40 odd years. See also my post #27 above for a more sober assessment of the situation.

 

[BushBlade]

The way I see it United are in a massive Catch-22. It's been reported that the academy costs about £4m a year to run. This is not too far off the figure we've been losing every year for the past 6 or 7 years. Other than that, it appears the club has been a tightly run ship apart from the Clough blow-out. So what do we do? Close the academy or accept that we have to sell it's produce to pay for it's upkeep? The only way we can reap the benefit of the academy is if we are in or closing in on the premiership.

That United are going to get an Abrahmovic-type owner is akin to one of us winning the lottery. It ain't going to happen. So we're stuck in a groundhog day situation until we fluke our way out of it. Other than this I don't have a suggestion.

I find that figure to be quite high. I wonder if that includes the maintenance and other expenses for the facilities, which the first team use also? It seems a lot to be paying in coaches' wages etc.

But you could be right. The accounts aren't very detailed. My own guess is that we've lost a lot of money because the managerial appointments haven't worked out and we've overpaid players.

 

[Ricky]

Holmes is like Duffy. Naturally a winger who's evolved into more of a number 10. He drifts across the front line and gets on the ball. So that's where he'll play. And he's more likely to start as first choice than Leonard initially.