Dear board and manager..

[Fiery Blade]

Off the top of my head - some of this overlaps but there are differences of emphasis:

• promoted three times
• attracts good players
• knows the Leagues
• connections
• knows tactics - we've switched a number of times from a system that wasn't working to one that was
• positive atmosphere - by far the best way to get the most out of most people
• clear in what he wants
• clear in what we've got
• positive but unsentimental I'd add
• professional
• experienced
• honest hardworking professional
• doesn't overcomplicate
• high standards - Che being dropped
• confident
• ambitious

etc etc

The obvious question is: Well why aren't we better positioned?

I think the answer, in part, is we're using Clough's squad to play Adkins game. Bergen Blade's posts are a really clear analysis of the details of this.

Also I think the League overall is harder than it used to be. I think what Collins said about teams no longer coming and roll over is true, with the possible exception of Fleetwood. It's a long hard slog. One benefit of the Fleetwood game - or easy games in general - is you can basically have a rest. This should be welcomed.

Throughout football teams have learned to make the most of their limited resources, either by parking the bus, or playing without fear, or tactical awareness. I think that's happened in Division 3 as elsewhere.

If Adkins doesn't get us out of this League then I think we'll be here for all eternity.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Off the top of my head - some of this overlaps but there are differences of emphasis:

• promoted three times
• attracts good players
• knows the Leagues
• connections
• knows tactics - we've switched a number of times from a system that wasn't working to one that was
• positive atmosphere - by far the best way to get the most out of most people
• clear in what he wants
• clear in what we've got
• positive but unsentimental I'd add
• professional
• experienced
• honest hardworking professional
• doesn't overcomplicate
• high standards - Che being dropped
• confident
• ambitious

etc etc

The obvious question is: Well why aren't we better positioned?

I think the answer, in part, is we're using Clough's squad to play Adkins game. Bergen Blade's posts are a really clear analysis of the details of this.

Also I think the League overall is harder than it used to be. I think what Collins said about teams no longer coming and roll over is true, with the possible exception of Fleetwood. It's a long hard slog. One benefit of the Fleetwood game - or easy games in general - is you can basically have a rest. This should be welcomed.

Throughout football teams have learned to make the most of their limited resources, either by parking the bus, or playing without fear, or tactical awareness. I think that's happened in Division 3 as elsewhere.

If Adkins doesn't get us out of this League then I think we'll be here for all eternity.

Are you his agent WHF or have you copied out what was on his CV ???
Nothing he has done to date has given me any optimism for the future:

• He clearly doesn't know his best team
• His recruiting of players has been average at best !
• He has not addressed the CB issue
• He has not addressed the goalkeeper issue
• He clearly can't motivate players with their lacklustre performances
• His positive attitude is not getting the most out of the players
• He selected McEverley as his captain
• He continues to select Collins
• As regards Hardworking Professional, Ambitious, High Standards, Connections, Confident ...... I wouldn't expect anything less from any manager we employed !

Sorry, WHF - He seems to have captivated you !
I say as I see, and at present what I see is little or no better than what we had under Mr Clough !

 

[alcoblade]

Are you his agent WHF or have you copied out what was on his CV ???
Nothing he has done to date has given me any optimism for the future:

• He clearly doesn't know his best team
• His recruiting of players has been average at best !
• He has not addressed the CB issue
• He has not addressed the goalkeeper issue
• He clearly can't motivate players with their lacklustre performances
• His positive attitude is not getting the most out of the players
• He selected McEverley as his captain
• He continues to select Collins
• As regards Hardworking Professional, Ambitious, High Standards, Connections, Confident ...... I wouldn't expect anything less from any manager we employed !

Sorry, WHF - He seems to have captivated you !
I say as I see, and at present what I see is little or no better than what we had under Mr Clough !

Again, if you think your analysis of a handful of games with armchair expertise overrides a career of success after success, it's s bit difficult to move forward with any sensible debate.

UTB

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Are you his agent WHF or have you copied out what was on his CV ???
Nothing he has done to date has given me any optimism for the future:

• He clearly doesn't know his best team
• His recruiting of players has been average at best !
• He has not addressed the CB issue
• He has not addressed the goalkeeper issue
• He clearly can't motivate players with their lacklustre performances
• His positive attitude is not getting the most out of the players
• He selected McEverley as his captain
• He continues to select Collins
• As regards Hardworking Professional, Ambitious, High Standards, Connections, Confident ...... I wouldn't expect anything less from any manager we employed !

Sorry, WHF - He seems to have captivated you !
I say as I see, and at present what I see is little or no better than what we had under Mr Clough !

No-one knows our best team - as the endless and informative debates, one going on atm, show
We don't have a best team - we have different teams and formations depending on the situation
He brought back Collins into the fold, and recruited Edgar - not everyone agrees CH is our top priority
Or goalkeeper
Collins might be the latest hate figure but in terms of actual performance he's been fine

etc etc

All I can say is it's overwhelmingly clear eg from interviews he knows exactly what he's doing.

I would agree that making McEveley captain was a mistake, but we don't know what went into that decision at that time.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

"We really should have picked Connor coady up,he loved us,we loved him,

Nothing more sad than someone convincing themselves of requieted love, when the facts tell everyone else a different story.

 

[Fiery Blade]

Again, if you think your analysis of a handful of games with armchair expertise overrides a career of success after success, it's s bit difficult to move forward with any sensible debate.

UTB

Because I don't agree with WHF in his adulation of Mr Adkins what makes my argument non sensible ?

We are now a third of the way into the season, not a handful of games as you suggest and I think that makes a basis of making comment !

As I said in my last line, 'at present i see little or no better than what we had under Mr Clough'

To quote your last post 'it's a bit difficult to move forward with any sensible debate' - Sorry to have conflicting views with yours Alco but as they say Que Sera Sera !!

 

[Fiery Blade]

No-one knows our best team - as the endless and informative debates, one going on atm, show
We don't have a best team - we have different teams and formations depending on the situation
He brought back Collins into the fold, and recruited Edgar - not everyone agrees CH is our top priority
Or goalkeeper
Collins might be the latest hate figure but in terms of actual performance he's been fine

etc etc

All I can say is it's overwhelmingly clear eg from interviews he knows exactly what he's doing.

I would agree that making McEveley captain was a mistake, but we don't know what went into that decision at that time.

Sorry WHF, cannot agree

• CB should be a priority as we are shipping goals for fun - usually these goals are created by silly mistakes week in week out and we do not appear to be able to stop the flow
• I don't hate Collins (bit of a strong word 'hate') I just don't think he is very good and his attitude to other players on the field stinks !
• Collins actual performances have been poor to average at best
• I do not think it is overwhelmingly clear from his interviews that he knows what he's doing - I find his interviews full of what he thinks people want to hear, no he doesn't castigate his players -that is a plus point but to blame the referee for last weeks defeat was poor - we had one shot on target for the whole 90 minutes yet he blames the referee - yes the ref was poor, but we are in the Third Division, we are not going to get Premier League referees

Let's see where we are at Christmas, if we are still in the hunt then perhaps big him up then, for now the jury is still out !

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Sorry WHF, cannot agree

• CB should be a priority as we are shipping goals for fun - usually these goals are created by silly mistakes week in week out and we do not appear to be able to stop the flow
• I don't hate Collins (bit of a strong word 'hate') I just don't think he is very good and his attitude to other players on the field stinks !
• Collins actual performances have been poor to average at best
• I do not think it is overwhelmingly clear from his interviews that he knows what he's doing - I find his interviews full of what he thinks people want to hear, no he doesn't castigate his players -that is a plus point but to blame the referee for last weeks defeat was poor - we had one shot on target for the whole 90 minutes yet he blames the referee - yes the ref was poor, but we are in the Third Division, we are not going to get Premier League referees

Let's see where we are at Christmas, if we are still in the hunt then perhaps big him up then, for now the jury is still out !

He didn't blame the ref at all. He mentioned the ref's involvement, there was plenty we had to get wrong and he said so. I have no time for managers who blame refs.
The hate for Collins was not directed at you, more just a general statement, and as the Collins and confirmation bias thread shows some of us think he's doing fine - but he did make a mistake along with several others for their second
The goals we're conceding often start with midfield not doing their job, Bergen points this out and analyses why we concede :-( weekly
One of the many things I hear in interviews is an astute analysis of where we are going wrong - and how to fix it eg Millwall
As I've said before though I'd rather we play for 90 minutes than 60
He's consistently talked about keeping in touch till Christmas/New Year. I think/hope we're marshalling our resources till then and after that we'll kick on.

Just a thought: maybe Simmo's ball will return from orbit in May and play a part in a Play-Off final victory.

UTMB

 

[BushBlade]

If Nigel Clough was Nigel Smith and not Clough, I highly doubt he would have landed the managerial job at Derby or ourselves.

Not when he did, I agree. He would have stayed at Burton and taken them into the league. How his career progressed from their would have been dependent on what happened next. A reasonable comparison is Justin Edinburgh who, despite being a former top level player has worked his way up through from non league.
In a lot of ways, I see him more as a Warnock type, better at an 'underdog' club than one with a bit of cash.
I think he could have taken us up but it could have taken two seasons, maybe three and I don't think anyone wants to wait that long.
That said, I think it will take NA two seasons unless he's well backed in the JTW.

 

[Fiery Blade]

He didn't blame the ref at all. He mentioned the ref's involvement, there was plenty we had to get wrong and he said so. I have no time for managers who blame refs.
The hate for Collins was not directed at you, more just a general statement, and as the Collins and confirmation bias thread shows some of us think he's doing fine - but he did make a mistake along with several others for their second
The goals we're conceding often start with midfield not doing their job, Bergen points this out and analyses why we concede :-( weekly
One of the many things I hear in interviews is an astute analysis of where we are going wrong - and how to fix it eg Millwall
As I've said before though I'd rather we play for 90 minutes than 60
He's consistently talked about keeping in touch till Christmas/New Year. I think/hope we're marshalling our resources till then and after that we'll kick on.

Just a thought: maybe Simmo's ball will return from orbit in May and play a part in a Play-Off final victory.

UTMB

At present WHF you have much more faith in Mr Adkins than I have, whilst I hope you're right I have got a little tired of his soundbites in interviews - you mention his 'astute analysis' and 'how to fix it' - well he's not fixed it yet despite their indifferent form and lack of consistency !
Hopefully, they can do it today !

 

[alcoblade]

At present WHF you have much more faith in Mr Adkins than I have, whilst I hope you're right I have got a little tired of his soundbites in interviews - you mention his 'astute analysis' and 'how to fix it' - well he's not fixed it yet despite their indifferent form and lack of consistency !
Hopefully, they can do it today !

The last man to talk a lot of nothing in interviews was Warnock, one of our most successful in decades.

How those who derided him have been so comprehensively proved wrong. However, they could at least learn the lesson that 2 minutes of soundbite interviews are just that.

UTB

 

[PeteBlade]

The last man to talk a lot of nothing in interviews was Warnock, one of our most successful in decades.

How those who derided him have been so comprehensively proved wrong. However, they could at least learn the lesson that 2 minutes of soundbite interviews are just that.

UTB

Us being shit doesn't automatically make Neil Warnock an all knowing God.
He's an excellent lower league manager but totally out of his depth in the Premier League as he's proved.

 

[alcoblade]

Us being shit doesn't automatically make Neil Warnock an all knowing God.
He's an excellent lower league manager but totally out of his depth in the Premier League as he's proved.

His premiership abilities might be worth debating when we are a million miles away from where we are now then.

UTB

 

[Barney]

His premiership abilities might be worth debating when we are a million miles away from where we are now then.

UTB

What i'd do for Warnock back now.

 

[PeteBlade]

His premiership abilities might be worth debating when we are a million miles away from where we are now then.

UTB

When debating him as a manager, it's much better to have an all round opinion on his career rather than just cherry pick the bits we like.

 

[alcoblade]

When debating him as a manager, it's much better to have an all round opinion on his career rather than just cherry pick the bits we like.

If you want to talk about another point Pete, then start a discussion. This one was about whether Adkins interviews had any baring on his abilities to get us out of this lower league. Between him and Warnock you have 10 (+?) promotions. I think it's safe to say they're qualified, so it's safe to say if people don't like their interviews, they can at least sleep easy knowing that in itself, the ability to fill 2 minutes of interviews with none guff seems to have no indication on the likelihood of escaping the division you're in.

UTB

 

[SwissBlade]

.

I'm amazed that people would be judging him on 12 games, when he has an impeccable track record. I'm amazed people aren't proud that we landed him in the third division. I'm more amazed that people aren't blaming the carnage that the previous man left behind.


UTB

Ive judged the start to the season after the first ten games for several years, it's always seemed a good place to take a snapshot of where we are. It's not writing Adkins off, just making an assessment of him.

Track records get the manager a job but are completely irrelevant if they can't live up to that track record once they take the job.

If we were comparing Adkins track record to his current record then he's a long way off getting close to it...

 

[SwissBlade]

You've not said what mate? I was merely making a comment regarding you making a suggestion that we haven't made any progress appointing Adkins, the most proven manager at this level that we could appoint.

You've become an apologist for Clough, a man that has now gone, there's no need to stick up for a complete failure of a manager who failed with one of the biggest budgets a Sheff Utd manager has ever had. To back this up, we have the biggest squad outside the Premier League, now why carry on slating Adkins who has had a mere 10 games or so when it's quite clear the restraints put on him after Clough left have had a detrimental effect.

Just to add, Adkins is, and will always be better than Clough.

I'm not a 'clough apologist' or whatever you want to label me. Please let's not go down this daft route.

Again, as I said to alco, Adkins had a track record but the only thing we can judge him on is his time at Sheff Utd. Yes he's had 10 + games but my point (again) is that he's not done anything to suggest he's a better Sheff Utd manager than clough. Clough was the last manager, so he's the benchmark. we can sit and discuss cloughs tenure and disagree, but the point is that until Adkins shows that he's improving things it's difficult to suggest objectively that the change was worth it.

As I've said before, I've no problem with Adkins at all, I want him to do well, but honestly, there is a lot for him to do.

 

[alcoblade]

Ive judged the start to the season after the first ten games for several years, it's always seemed a good place to take a snapshot of where we are. It's not writing Adkins off, just making an assessment of him.

Track records get the manager a job but are completely irrelevant if they can't live up to that track record once they take the job.

If we were comparing Adkins track record to his current record then he's a long way off getting close to it...

Well, I thought Clough was a shite manager when we were on about appointing him (no hindsight involved, I was "vociferous" about it on here) . Once appointed I gave him the benefit of the doubt.. After 10 games, we were fucking shite and I still gave him the benefit of the doubt.

10 games is far too early to judge a manager. Especially when they're taking over a pile of shit - which is what Clough left, as I sadly predicted.

UTB

 

[PeteBlade]

I'm not a 'clough apologist' or whatever you want to label me. Please let's not go down this daft route.

Again, as I said to alco, Adkins had a track record but the only thing we can judge him on is his time at Sheff Utd. Yes he's had 10 + games but my point (again) is that he's not done anything to suggest he's a better Sheff Utd manager than clough. Clough was the last manager, so he's the benchmark. we can sit and discuss cloughs tenure and disagree, but the point is that until Adkins shows that he's improving things it's difficult to suggest objectively that the change was worth it.

As I've said before, I've no problem with Adkins at all, I want him to do well, but honestly, there is a lot for him to do.

He's improved the attacking part of our game no end. I no longer want to end my own life 20 minutes in as I did during Clough's second season.
His major error so far would be not sorting the defence out, which I believe is purely down to money.
Our large squad, built by Clough, is holding us back.

In Adkins, we have the man capable of sorting this out and firing us back up.

 

[wizadry]

I'm not a 'clough apologist' or whatever you want to label me. Please let's not go down this daft route.

Again, as I said to alco, Adkins had a track record but the only thing we can judge him on is his time at Sheff Utd. Yes he's had 10 + games but my point (again) is that he's not done anything to suggest he's a better Sheff Utd manager than clough. Clough was the last manager, so he's the benchmark. we can sit and discuss cloughs tenure and disagree, but the point is that until Adkins shows that he's improving things it's difficult to suggest objectively that the change was worth it.

As I've said before, I've no problem with Adkins at all, I want him to do well, but honestly, there is a lot for him to do.

I suppose it's all about preferences Swiss. I personally think that with Adkins having a far superior managerial record to Clough he deserves a fair bit longer than Clough because he's proved he can do it, Clough hasn't, and at the time i thought the board had no option but to get rid. I stick by that view but we don't half make it hard for ourselves, no matter which route we go down. We have a proven manager at this level but i think it's going to take longer than some of us thought to sort the shite out that Clough has left him.

 

[SwissBlade]

I suppose it's all about preferences Swiss. I personally think that with Adkins having a far superior managerial record to Clough he deserves a fair bit longer than Clough because he's proved he can do it, Clough hasn't, and at the time i thought the board had no option but to get rid. I stick by that view but we don't half make it hard for ourselves, no matter which route we go down. We have a proven manager at this level but i think it's going to take longer than some of us thought to sort the shite out that Clough has left him.

Again, the track record elsewhere is now irrelevant, it doesn't matter in the slightest what Adkins did elsewhere if he can't get the results here.

And in fairness he's doing his best to match Cloughs league record.

That positivity and confidence that William Henry Foulkes talked about has helped us get the defeat against Crewe, like Clough did...

 

[wizadry]

Again, the track record elsewhere is now irrelevant, it doesn't matter in the slightest what Adkins did elsewhere if he can't get the results here.

And in fairness he's doing his best to match Cloughs league record.

That positivity and confidence that William Henry Foulkes talked about has helped us get the defeat against Crewe, like Clough did...

Can't really say anything against that mate, although my main point is he deserves a fair crack at the whip as he's proved he can do it, Clough didn't.

 

[SwissBlade]

Can't really say anything against that mate, although my main point is he deserves a fair crack at the whip as he's proved he can do it, Clough didn't.

I think both Clough and Adkins deserved that fair crack, no problems with that at all. My point way back on page one of this thread was really about where the improvements have been so far and it's so far been quite an average to poor start to his tenure.

 

[wizadry]

I think both Clough and Adkins deserved that fair crack, no problems with that at all. My point way back on page one of this thread was really about where the improvements have been so far and it's so far been quite an average to poor start to his tenure.

Don't disagree with that, but you do have to debate why he has had a dodgy start and ONE reason for that imo is Clough, there are many more. If the board keep stripping good players away from us then not replacing them adequately enough then it doesn't fucking matter who we have as manager.

 

[SwissBlade]

Don't disagree with that, but you do have to debate why he has had a dodgy start and ONE reason for that imo is Clough, there are many more. If the board keep stripping good players away from us then not replacing them adequately enough then it doesn't fucking matter who we have as manager.

Debating the reasons is fair enough, but simply stating 'Clough' is really not the way to do it.

 

[wizadry]

Debating the reasons is fair enough, but simply stating 'Clough' is really not the way to do it.

He brought in shit loads of players swiss and most of them were fucking garbage, he had a very big budget from the club, he also played players out of position and dropped players at stange times. Unfortunately mate i haven't got all night so i thought i'd just say 'Clough'

 

[SwissBlade]

He brought in shit loads of players swiss and most of them were fucking garbage, he had a very big budget from the club, he also played players out of position and dropped players at stange times. Unfortunately mate i haven't got all night so i thought i'd just say 'Clough'

The budget has no relevance to this season though does it?

Yes he brought in players, more for Adkins to choose from then and in fairness to him he got more out of the so called garbage players than Adkins has done...

Clough should have a bronze statue in the car park for almost getting shut of Collins!

 

[wizadry]

The budget has no relevance to this season though does it?

Yes he brought in players, more for Adkins to choose from then and in fairness to him he got more out of the so called garbage players than Adkins has done...

Clough should have a bronze statue in the car park for almost getting shut of Collins!

I don't mind Collins for this league but that statement you made did make me giggle

I suppose it will be very interesting comparing the two of them after Adkins has had sufficient time to do what he wants to do, only time will tell but i still think it's a tad harsh to criticise Adkins at this early stage of his tenure.

 

[sheffielder]

We will never achieve anything whilst we have losers fans. You don't get promoted with hope.