Dear board and manager..

[BushBlade]

The point about the past is that it's not evidence from United...

It's extremely rose tinted and subjective as you declare random words like 'positive' and disciplining Che as your reasons, yet this is not something which we've seen a direct result of on the pitch.

If you'd focussed on one or two actual, solid points (like the tactical one you mentioned) I'd be more inclined to see it as evidence based rather than just a wildly blade tinted perspective then it'd perhaps give your post more credibility.

My personal view though is that Adkins (and Phipps) spends more time talking about what we should do or should've done rather than what we actually did that worked.

I really can't wait for the evidence to be shown on the pitch. A good manager will get the best out of what he has, again, so far Adkins isn't doing this....

I'm not sure about your last paragraph. Most of the good managers build their own teams with their own players. If they come in mid-way through the season they may have an initial impact but I can't think of many who've gone on to be successful with someone else's team.

At the very top, Fergie made big changes, as has Van Gaal, Mourinho did, Wenger kept a very successful defence and Bergkamp but brought in a new midfield and Anelka.
At a lower level, Bassett changed almost the entire team, Kendall brought quite a few in and more recently, Powell at Charlton changed the whole team. Even Jones got to bring in some loans for the final piggy push.

I'm not saying it never happens but I don't think it's the norm and I don't think it can be used to define whether a manager is good or not.

I can think of plenty of managers who made an initial impact but then didn't progress any further, or went backwards, the most recent being Sherwood.

 

[SwissBlade]

I'm not sure about your last paragraph. Most of the good managers build their own teams with their own players. If they come in mid-way through the season they may have an initial impact but I can't think of many who've gone on to be successful with someone else's team.

At the very top, Fergie made big changes, as has Van Gaal, Mourinho did, Wenger kept a very successful defence and Bergkamp but brought in a new midfield and Anelka.
At a lower level, Bassett changed almost the entire team, Kendall brought quite a few in and more recently, Powell at Charlton changed the whole team. Even Jones got to bring in some loans for the final piggy push.

I'm not saying it never happens but I don't think it's the norm and I don't think it can be used to define whether a manager is good or not.

I can think of plenty of managers who made an initial impact but then didn't progress any further, or went backwards, the most recent being Sherwood.

Don't get me wrong, over the next 2-3 years I expect Adkins to build his own team, but I also expect him to work with these players and being out their strengths in the interim.

I'm not saying he has to keep the players, but whilst he has them he needs to get more out of them.

Saying that, he's not exactly got the best out of the players he's brought in either

 

[bladeinspaceandtime]

It wasn't the sacking of Clough so much as what it represented. Although I did find that he spoke very directly to media, he didn't hide. The prickly nature was almost a positive especially after games.

Didn't Morgan used to get wheeled out to speak to the press after a loss? In a lot of the interviews I listened to Clough sounded like he was one question away from a breakdown.

 

[SwissBlade]

Didn't Morgan used to get wheeled out to speak to the press after a loss? In a lot of the interviews I listened to Clough sounded like he was one question away from a breakdown.

Sometimes after a win as well.

 

[billyblademan]

Didn't Morgan used to get wheeled out to speak to the press after a loss? In a lot of the interviews I listened to Clough sounded like he was one question away from a breakdown.

Like or loathe Clough, he wore his heart on his sleeve, and sometimes less than 30 minutes after the match you can tell he's still raw.

From memory, he himself used to face the press after a defeat, and occasionally after a win (even such as Barnsley, arguably best performance of the season), he'd let his deputy's do it.

Before he were sacked there were strong rumours of McFadzean (and someone else, I forget who) - I think Clough knew what the problems were, although I'm far from convinced he'd have been able to fix them.

Any Season Ticket holder last year surely won't be crying themselves to sleep at Clough's departure, some of the home football last season was diabolical. Without even going into Crewe and Fleetwood fiascos, a personal highlight was the 1-0 win against Port Vale, where we got absolutely pummelled.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

The point about the past is that it's not evidence from United...

It's extremely rose tinted and subjective as you declare random words like 'positive' and disciplining Che as your reasons, yet this is not something which we've seen a direct result of on the pitch.

If you'd focussed on one or two actual, solid points (like the tactical one you mentioned) I'd be more inclined to see it as evidence based rather than just a wildly blade tinted perspective then it'd perhaps give your post more credibility.

My personal view though is that Adkins (and Phipps) spends more time talking about what we should do or should've done rather than what we actually did that worked.

I really can't wait for the evidence to be shown on the pitch. A good manager will get the best out of what he has, again, so far Adkins isn't doing this....

I think he is getting the best out of them. That's our problem.

 

[SwissBlade]

I think he is getting the best out of them. That's our problem.

Well we know he's not getting the best out of the likes of scougall, JCR and the like as we've seen much better from them in the past...

Done and Che have been consistent with their performances last season, Baxter and Wallace are improved...

There's a lot more to do

 

[BushBlade]

Like or loathe Clough, he wore his heart on his sleeve, and sometimes less than 30 minutes after the match you can tell he's still raw.

From memory, he himself used to face the press after a defeat, and occasionally after a win (even such as Barnsley, arguably best performance of the season), he'd let his deputy's do it.

Before he were sacked there were strong rumours of McFadzean (and someone else, I forget who) - I think Clough knew what the problems were, although I'm far from convinced he'd have been able to fix them.

Any Season Ticket holder last year surely won't be crying themselves to sleep at Clough's departure, some of the home football last season was diabolical. Without even going into Crewe and Fleetwood fiascos, a personal highlight was the 1-0 win against Port Vale, where we got absolutely pummelled.

What were the rumours about McFadzean?

 

[BushBlade]

Well we know he's not getting the best out of the likes of scougall, JCR and the like as we've seen much better from them in the past...

Done and Che have been consistent with their performances last season, Baxter and Wallace are improved...

There's a lot more to do

Scougs was shit last season and Clough fucked JCR off to Notts County. He's a complete enigma, always has been, which is why he can put the fear of God into Spurs but has spent all his career in the lower leagues.

 

[mattbianco1]

Appointment of Robson

Thread closed.

 

[SwissBlade]

Scougs was shit last season and Clough fucked JCR off to Notts County. He's a complete enigma, always has been, which is why he can put the fear of God into Spurs but has spent all his career in the lower leagues.

Yes but the point was that both have played at better than now.

 

[billyblademan]

What were the rumours about McFadzean?

I thought there were rumours flying around we were signing him earlier in the summer. Probably just a maxstertheblade special.

I've remembered the other bloke though...Andy Williams. Think he ended up signing for Donny, and hasn't set any trees alight.

 

[BushBlade]

Yes but the point was that both have played at better than now.

Michael Ricketts played for England. Sometimes it doesn't make much difference who the manager is, a player plays at 110% for a while, has a purple patch, and then can never repeat that form again. It's one of the anomalies of football, one of many reasons football isn't an exact science.

You don't judge a player on his best or his worst game. If JCR had ever played well consistently, he'd have played at a higher level. Clough couldn't make him consistent, why should Adkins? Like you, I don't think Clough was shit and in my overly long post above I've set out why I think NA has struggled to make a big impact.
When Clough took over from Weir, he was able to make an impact because he was replacing a really shit manager. Even then he had to bring in the likes of Brayford to sort us out. NA doesn't have the luxury of taking over a badly managed side on its arse. Quite the opposite, he's taken over a side that reached two semi-finals in less than twelve months and lost in the playoffs having an horrendous injury list. The majority of them liked Clough, had played for him before and wanted to sign for him.
Unlike when Clough took over from Weir, I don't think too many players (Collins, McNulty and Diego aside) thought 'thank fuck he's gone' and embraced the managerial change. In fact you wonder what players like Brayford and Coutts made of Jim's recent 'admissions'.

 

[BushBlade]

I thought there were rumours flying around we were signing him earlier in the summer. Probably just a maxstertheblade special.

I've remembered the other bloke though...Andy Williams. Think he ended up signing for Donny, and hasn't set any trees alight.

Oh, I thought you meant his brother. Thought something had gone off again. Yes, I think we were linked with Kyle, not sure if there was anything in it.

Edit; thinking about it I think it might have been the season before, just before he moved to MKD.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I think Bushblade sums up pretty well why people have faith in Adkins and recognise he needs to be given time.


No manager has a 100% record for successful signings. So far, Adkins has signed


Sharp (good)

Sammon (good at times)

Edgar (good at times)

Woolford (poor)

Hammond (average start but has a good reputation)


Now, I would imagine that Woolford will be gone at the end of the season despite signing a 2 year deal. Adkins is seeing that he’s not good enough to get in the team. He will also reach that same assessment for a lot of the squad he inherited. He will then release a lot of them at the end of the season. He will then recruit players again and the results will be mixed again. If we keep keeping the good ones and releasing the poor ones, we will move forwards. The only way this gets undermined is if the club keep selling the good ones as we’ve proven we cannot replace like for like. That is what is making the wheels fall off season after season and inhibiting progress.


If we’d kept Maguire, I’m almost certain we would have made progress on the previous season under Clough.


If we’d kept Murphy, I’m almost certain we would be making progress under Adkins.


I think Adkins is an improvement on Clough. For those saying “we’re no further forward” consider this. Our run towards the end of the season under Clough was wretched. I think we won something like 1 in 9 and lost to the likes of Yeovil and Crewe, scraped a draw at home to 10 man Bradford etc. Do you think we’d be doing better under Clough with no Brayford and no Murphy? I’m not convinced. On top of that, look at Clough’s first 3-4 months in charge. Hardly set the world alight did he? Sometimes, it takes time for managers to instil their methods into the players. I think that’s another reason managers like to go back for old players- because they know exactly what’s expected of them so in theory they can hit the ground running.


Also, there are other ways we can improve without being higher in the league. We are far more entertaining to watch this season. We actually score goals and sometimes win by more than 1. And personally, I just really like his attitude as well as his CV. We have a manager who doesn’t want to moan and groan about refs, who doesn’t want to play for a point etc. We have a guy who oozes positivity, wants to entertain and play attacking football scoring a shed load of goals and leaves no stone unturned when looking at how we can improve. Give this guy time (and don’t keep selling his best players) and he will shine. Be it this season or next.

 

[Patrick Suffaux]

Well we know he's not getting the best out of the likes of scougall, JCR and the like as we've seen much better from them in the past...

Done and Che have been consistent with their performances last season, Baxter and Wallace are improved...

There's a lot more to do

I think Scougall has lost it, injuries have done him. JCR is just getting on and suffers from a winger's inconsistency which is common in players who play there.

Other than Adams and Wallace who are doing well and improving all the time....mostly everyone else is playing to their maximum in my opinion (Basham can maybe do a little better). The problem is that only Done, Sharp and the three mentioned before are any use at their maximum.

The rest simply aren't very good. Hate to break that to you as you clearly have much higher hopes for them.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

Off the top of my head - some of this overlaps but there are differences of emphasis:

• promoted three times
• attracts good players
• knows the Leagues
• connections
• knows tactics - we've switched a number of times from a system that wasn't working to one that was
• positive atmosphere - by far the best way to get the most out of most people
• clear in what he wants
• clear in what we've got
• positive but unsentimental I'd add
• professional
• experienced
• honest hardworking professional
• doesn't overcomplicate
• high standards - Che being dropped
• confident
• ambitious

etc etc

The obvious question is: Well why aren't we better positioned?

I think the answer, in part, is we're using Clough's squad to play Adkins game. Bergen Blade's posts are a really clear analysis of the details of this.

Also I think the League overall is harder than it used to be. I think what Collins said about teams no longer coming and roll over is true, with the possible exception of Fleetwood. It's a long hard slog. One benefit of the Fleetwood game - or easy games in general - is you can basically have a rest. This should be welcomed.

Throughout football teams have learned to make the most of their limited resources, either by parking the bus, or playing without fear, or tactical awareness. I think that's happened in Division 3 as elsewhere.

If Adkins doesn't get us out of this League then I think we'll be here for all eternity.

You've missed his best attribute, saving shit loads of money for the board by signing fuck all centre halves eh?

 

[alcoblade]

.

I don't mind disagreeing, just interested in why you think this?

I'm amazed that people would be judging him on 12 games, when he has an impeccable track record. I'm amazed people aren't proud that we landed him in the third division. I'm more amazed that people aren't blaming the carnage that the previous man left behind.


UTB

 

[wizadry]

I've not said that. I've just asked what Adkins has done to merit the gratitude. I keep hearing all this about what Adkins did at Southampton and how great he is but we haven't seen any improvement to make us stand back and say that he's the man to take us forward.

I hear lots of blame being thrown at Clough but Adkins isnt pulling trees up just yet and it's worrying that were set to give him more money in January....

Personally I'd rather we trim the squad and used kids for the rest of this season and let him push on with new players next season

You've not said what mate? I was merely making a comment regarding you making a suggestion that we haven't made any progress appointing Adkins, the most proven manager at this level that we could appoint.

You've become an apologist for Clough, a man that has now gone, there's no need to stick up for a complete failure of a manager who failed with one of the biggest budgets a Sheff Utd manager has ever had. To back this up, we have the biggest squad outside the Premier League, now why carry on slating Adkins who has had a mere 10 games or so when it's quite clear the restraints put on him after Clough left have had a detrimental effect.

Just to add, Adkins is, and will always be better than Clough.

 

[Darthblade]

Off the top of my head - some of this overlaps but there are differences of emphasis:

• promoted three times
• attracts good players
• knows the Leagues
• connections
• knows tactics - we've switched a number of times from a system that wasn't working to one that was
• positive atmosphere - by far the best way to get the most out of most people
• clear in what he wants
• clear in what we've got
• positive but unsentimental I'd add
• professional
• experienced
• honest hardworking professional
• doesn't overcomplicate
• high standards - Che being dropped
• confident
• ambitious

etc etc

The obvious question is: Well why aren't we better positioned?

I think the answer, in part, is we're using Clough's squad to play Adkins game. Bergen Blade's posts are a really clear analysis of the details of this.

Also I think the League overall is harder than it used to be. I think what Collins said about teams no longer coming and roll over is true, with the possible exception of Fleetwood. It's a long hard slog. One benefit of the Fleetwood game - or easy games in general - is you can basically have a rest. This should be welcomed.

Throughout football teams have learned to make the most of their limited resources, either by parking the bus, or playing without fear, or tactical awareness. I think that's happened in Division 3 as elsewhere.

If Adkins doesn't get us out of this League then I think we'll be here for all eternity.

"Also I think the League overall is harder than it used to be"

Sorry ..... I cannot agree with this in any shape or form mate. This current agricultural Division has no stand-out team(s) and any half-decent, well prepared, strong pacey team would probably be sitting on a 100% record now.

Regrettably, we are none of the above descriptions, hence our current position and I fear it will get worse. We have demonstrated that we are soft, clueless, pedestrian, weak, glass-chinned under-achievers who look great on paper but that counts for nothing when you're up against sides who are "125% teams" and run and close down for 95 minutes.

We are in need of a "Charlton style" massive clearout ( forgive the use of massive in respect of us please ) to allow NA to rebuild from the spine outwards before we will see any glory ........
UTB & FTP

 

[Darthblade]

.

I'm amazed that people would be judging him on 12 games, when he has an impeccable track record. I'm amazed people aren't proud that we landed him in the third division. I'm more amazed that people aren't blaming the carnage that the previous man left behind.


UTB

I'm delighted we landed NA ...... I'm also appalled that he's allowed so many of our weak players too much time before he realised they're not equipped for this agricultural Division .....

He's left himself, the team and us a mountain to climb .......
UTB & FTP

 

[alcoblade]

I'm delighted we landed NA ...... I'm also appalled that he's allowed so many of our weak players too much time before he realised they're not equipped for this agricultural Division .....

He's left himself, the team and us a mountain to climb .......
UTB & FTP

Which I'm sure is more down to the finances than his actual rating of the players.

Though many fans would have liked him to come out and say "I know this lot are shite", it was never going to, and never should have happened.

UTB

 

[dingledog]

Why? So far he's shown nothing to back this up....

We just don't know which corner it is we've turned? I'm sure once we know which one it was we will have loads to 'back it up', or is that just a metaphor for a reversal again.
( the main problem here, I should keep off the forum when I'm tired, talking shite as usual)

 

[Revolution]

Dunne was top goalscorer at United for four consecutive seasons between 1929 and 1933. He was sold at the beginning of the 1933-34 season. We were however relegated at the end of that season after being in the first division since 1893.

1930s clappers described this as "good business"...

 

[Houston_Blade]

Michael Ricketts played for England. Sometimes it doesn't make much difference who the manager is, a player plays at 110% for a while, has a purple patch, and then can never repeat that form again. It's one of the anomalies of football, one of many reasons football isn't an exact science.

You don't judge a player on his best or his worst game. If JCR had ever played well consistently, he'd have played at a higher level. Clough couldn't make him consistent, why should Adkins? Like you, I don't think Clough was shit and in my overly long post above I've set out why I think NA has struggled to make a big impact.
When Clough took over from Weir, he was able to make an impact because he was replacing a really shit manager. Even then he had to bring in the likes of Brayford to sort us out. NA doesn't have the luxury of taking over a badly managed side on its arse. Quite the opposite, he's taken over a side that reached two semi-finals in less than twelve months and lost in the playoffs having an horrendous injury list. The majority of them liked Clough, had played for him before and wanted to sign for him.
Unlike when Clough took over from Weir, I don't think too many players (Collins, McNulty and Diego aside) thought 'thank fuck he's gone' and embraced the managerial change. In fact you wonder what players like Brayford and Coutts made of Jim's recent 'admissions'.

Not aimed at you or your post but if Clough was any good why did we sack him?

 

[BushBlade]

Not aimed at you or your post but if Clough was any good why did we sack him?

I don't know.

 

[alcoblade]

Not aimed at you or your post but if Clough was any good why did we sack him?

Because his career proves he isn't very good. It was sadly predictable when we appointed him, and we're left with another expensive clean up job after he's gone.

His style of football was mind numbingly boring too, though he deserves credit for a few top moments.

UTB

 

[jt64]

I think Bushblade sums up pretty well why people have faith in Adkins and recognise he needs to be given time.


No manager has a 100% record for successful signings. So far, Adkins has signed


Sharp (good)

That's a good one, please elaborate

 

[PeteBlade]

If Nigel Clough was Nigel Smith and not Clough, I highly doubt he would have landed the managerial job at Derby or ourselves.

 

[Rodley]

Clough was never going to win a promotion.

The likes of Adkins, Warnock even Steve Evans have got a number of promotions on their CV. They know how to build a winning team and be successful. Clough was a steady hand on the tiller, but that wasn't what we needed.

When you're recruiting for any role, you ask "what experience have you got?". There's no better candidate than Adkins. It might take him another season to build a squad to do it, but he has to be given time.