darius henderson

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Henderson was excellent yesterday and very clearly one of our best players.
The real debate we should be having is about the impending car crash of a transfer that is Ched Evans.
I was pleased to see Blackie had the balls to take him off this time as he surely should have done against Leicester.
Ward looks to me the man to play up front with Henderson, not Evans who's looking well short of a £3m player.
 

The problem as I saw it towards the latter stages was that it was becoming clear that 80% of our attacks would break down because of a foul being given against Henderson. Whether he was guilty or not this was seriously harming our ability to get at West Brom and became a bit of an eyesore in entertainment terms for a short while.

I just thought that it would make more sense to bring on Sharp for Henderson and try something different, at the time it didn't look like we'd have any success with route 1. I'm not sure Blackwell can actually change the way we attack during the game very well though and instead we ended up taking ward off and evans and looking towards the end with only 1 up front at home looking for what could have been a big 3 points. I'm not sure if Hendrie is fit or not but he sure as hell should have been on the bench at least instead of Howard. Not just on the back of his performances but clear stupidity not to mention he was feeling off against Leicester. Blackwell can be harsh and unforgiving with certain players whilst seemingly giving others more than what would seem their fair chance.

Just my thoughts anway :-)
 
Jon Bon said:
That doesn't wash with me at all Silent, you could have added Deane in there too. All of those players are much more mobile than Hendo, much better finishers than him, internationals and far, far better players. If it's comparisons you're after, if you had said Jon Parkin, Luke Beckett and Ashley Ward (post Dingles) then you would have been much nearer the mark.
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Hendo is certainly more mobile than Parkin and Ward (post Dingles). You think Beckett is an old fashioned target man type? Made me laugh!. He may look big and strong but he is more of a goal poacher at lower divsion level (he is poor at defending from the front) than a target man. Your imagination of Beckett being a target man type reminded me of my mate (Chelsea fan) who thought Dean Windass was a similiar type of player as Billy Tightshirt. I told him that he is a completely different type of striker as big bad Billy despite Windass looking stocky and overweight. After watching the Sheffield derby match in which we won 3-1 in Jan 2003, my Chelsea mate then realised he was wrong in thinking that Windass was like Big bad Billy.

i have played football in the same team as selfish and pacy strikers and big strikers who are strong and hold the ball up to bring the others into play, I tell you that I enjoyed playing in the same team as the latter type of striker than the former type. We badly missed Hendo in the play off final. Burnley's defenders had our strikers in their pockets that day
 
lenners said:
Henderson was excellent yesterday and very clearly one of our best players.
The real debate we should be having is about the impending car crash of a transfer that is Ched Evans.
I was pleased to see Blackie had the balls to take him off this time as he surely should have done against Leicester.
Ward looks to me the man to play up front with Henderson, not Evans who's looking well short of a £3m player.
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I liked what I saw of Evans when he gave us problems for Norwich against us in Dec 2007. He did well against Watford but wasnt as effective against Leicester and WBA but give him more time to settle before we see his full potential
 
lenners said:
The real debate we should be having is about the impending car crash of a transfer that is Ched Evans.
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I can see that with the Smith saga now over, this is going to be the new bee in your bonnet - you came out with precisely the same after the Watford game. We created one good chance for him yesterday, he scored it. We should be concentrating not on what you perceive to be a problem with Evans, but what is a problem with regards to our continued lack of creativity, particularly from wide areas, which considering we now have 3 proper wingers in the squad is rather perplexing.

We haven't seen the best of Evans yet, but he is at an age where he can only improve, and is still building up his fitness. He was able to score a fair number for an awful Norwich side at this level, and if we are patient (and I know you hate being patient) he will do well.
 
Jon Bon said:
Yeah, I had a good guffaw too when I saw you comparing Hendo to Crouch, Ferguson and Joe Jordan... :p
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They all are strong and win a lot of headers. Big Dunc is the best ever target man I have ever seen so Hendo is a poor man's Big Dunc
 
Henderson has now extended his scoreless run to 13 games. I don't care how much else he does other than score goals, we aren't going to get promoted unless our strikers stick the ball in the net. And it's been a hell of a long time since he's looked like doing so.
 
Jon Bon said:
...and they also score a few goals - with the exception of Big Daz.
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Joe Jordan has a similiar goal scoring ratio as big Daz but I concede Joe has played more games at the top. Only 106 goals in 456 games but highly rated at L**ds (big club at the time) Man U and AC Milan
 
He always gets fouls given against him, so why keep playing him? He's doing more harm than good really. We get attacking and its a free-kick. He breaks the play up too much. Wouldn't be so bad if he scored at some point!

People said we wasn't a team with BT and it was all "get it to BT" It's the same now, Play it through hendo.

I really don;t rate him. Ball bounces off him and for £2million he's one of the worst signings i've seen at the lane.
 
Revolution said:
Henderson has now extended his scoreless run to 13 games. I don't care how much else he does other than score goals, we aren't going to get promoted unless our strikers stick the ball in the net. And it's been a hell of a long time since he's looked like doing so.
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Peter Withe didnt score mant goals for Forest or Villa but his aggression up front played a big part in helping Forest to win the league in 1978 and Villa win the league in 1981 and the European Cup in 1982
 
Peter Withe didnt score mant goals for Forest or Villa

Untrue.

Withe scored 12 in 40 games when Forest won the league.

Oh, and 20 in 36 games when Villa won the league.

Henderson has scored 6 in 36 games for United. In a lower division.
 
LoughboroBlade said:
I can see that with the Smith saga now over, this is going to be the new bee in your bonnet - you came out with precisely the same after the Watford game. We created one good chance for him yesterday, he scored it. We should be concentrating not on what you perceive to be a problem with Evans, but what is a problem with regards to our continued lack of creativity, particularly from wide areas, which considering we now have 3 proper wingers in the squad is rather perplexing.

We haven't seen the best of Evans yet, but he is at an age where he can only improve, and is still building up his fitness. He was able to score a fair number for an awful Norwich side at this level, and if we are patient (and I know you hate being patient) he will do well.
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Haven't seen the best of him? We've hardly seen anything from him full stop.
He doesn't bring others into play, doesn't win headers, isn't quick, doesn't look skilful - it's hilarious that anyone could be criticising Henderson when he had a vacancy alongside him upfront.
If Blackie's going to play Henderson as the fulcrum it's hard to see Evans as the one alongside him at the moment.
Unless there's a massive improvement I can see Evans dropping out of the first 11 and Ward going up front. That would also give us the option of playing Cotterill from the off.
(I had no bee in my bonnet about Smith, I just thought it was funny that we allegedly had a £1.8m fee agreed - money that doesn't seem available now)
 
Having seen it again on TV it really did look like Henderson dived for the penalty. When I saw it live (I sit on the Kop) I saw a trip but you can blatently see on TV that he threw himself foward. Whether it was a straight up dive or to make sure he got the decision I'm not sure.

I did love the extended ironic cheer when that Linesman finally gave Darius a freekick!
 

Revolution said:
Henderson has now extended his scoreless run to 13 games. I don't care how much else he does other than score goals
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It never ceases to amaze me how some football fans can ignore strikers' other contributions towards a game other than goals. How can you not care how much else he does than score goals? :confused: It's the kind of mentality that would have been happy to have seen Beattie still here and for 2 seasons running we'd have had one of the division's top scorers and been nowhere near automatic.

Henderson doesn't have to score a single goal for me this season so long as he keeps doing what he's doing. He's a constant threat, a massive headache for defenders, when the ball is played up it sticks, and gives the midfield time to get up and bolster the attack. With a full season under his belt as our target man there'll be 10x the number of goals come from midfield than the season we had with Beattie.
 
Where is the 10x goals coming from our midfield - Quinny may get his 8-9 like last season but even given Monty's improvement of late his shooting is worse than his passing and thats still dire !
 
Hendersons a donkey, with the sublety of a carthorse. It's not coincidence that ALL refs blow for a foul whenever he challenging for a ball - its because he usually is fouling, pushing, backing into etc etc - SIMPLES as the meercat would say !
 
It never ceases to amaze me how some football fans can ignore strikers' other contributions towards a game other than goals. How can you not care how much else he does than score goals?

Okay, obviously a non scoring forward has some value if he lays on goals. But he doesn't do a fat lot of that either.

If a forward is only going to bag 6 or 7 goals a season he must be laying on a lot of goals for those around him in order to be worth his place. Henderson does not do this.

As for Beattie, what amuses me is that the club went almost 20 years without a 20 goal season from anyone, fell short of promotion on several occasions or went down because no one was there to put the ball in the net (1994, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2007...), and once we spend big to sign such a player people want to get rid of him because he doesn't knock the ball down enough for midfielders who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

As for the midfield scoring 10 times as many as when Beattie was in the side, I've got 50 quid that says they won't. Given Monty and his 90 game scoring drought is an automatic selection, and Quinn got a decent tally of 7 last year, I'm not convinced the centre midfielders will match last season's goals, actually.
 
Revolution said:
It never ceases to amaze me how some football fans can ignore strikers' other contributions towards a game other than goals. How can you not care how much else he does than score goals?

Okay, obviously a non scoring forward has some value if he lays on goals. But he doesn't do a fat lot of that either.

If a forward is only going to bag 6 or 7 goals a season he must be laying on a lot of goals for those around him in order to be worth his place. Henderson does not do this.

As for Beattie, what amuses me is that the club went almost 20 years without a 20 goal season from anyone, fell short of promotion on several occasions or went down because no one was there to put the ball in the net (1994, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2007...), and once we spend big to sign such a player people want to get rid of him because he doesn't knock the ball down enough for midfielders who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.

As for the midfield scoring 10 times as many as when Beattie was in the side, I've got 50 quid that says they won't. Given Monty and his 90 game scoring drought is an automatic selection, and Quinn got a decent tally of 7 last year, I'm not convinced the centre midfielders will match last season's goals, actually.
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Totally agree with you Revolution Blades fans wallow in mediocrity Henderson shouldn't be playing at the same level as Beattie never mind in the same team !
Beattie oozes class and can score from all around the goal.
The fact that Blackwell rates Henderson so highly speaks volumes of the shortcomings of Blackwell as a manager!!!
 
Fiery Blade said:
Where is the 10x goals coming from our midfield - Quinny may get his 8-9 like last season but even given Monty's improvement of late his shooting is worse than his passing and thats still dire !
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Ok, 10x maybe a bit of an exaggeration but maybe not. I'm comparing it to when Beattie was in the side. Revolution is your statto, how many came from midfield with Beattie upfront?

Revolution said:
As for Beattie, what amuses me is that the club went almost 20 years without a 20 goal season from anyone, fell short of promotion on several occasions or went down because no one was there to put the ball in the net (1994, 2001, 2002, 2004, 2005, 2007...), and once we spend big to sign such a player people want to get rid of him because he doesn't knock the ball down enough for midfielders who couldn't hit water if they fell out of a boat.
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That's where the problem is though, for me. Yes, top of my wish list would be Brian Deane - 20+ striker but he did so much more. He was a tricky winger, a defender, a target man, a pace man. But that's not James Beattie. He was "just" a 20+ striker. Far more valuable in my eyes to have a target man who does knock the ball down for midfielders who have proven they can hit water (if some of them can't pass it :D).

Revolution said:
As for the midfield scoring 10 times as many as when Beattie was in the side, I've got 50 quid that says they won't. Given Monty and his 90 game scoring drought is an automatic selection, and Quinn got a decent tally of 7 last year, I'm not convinced the centre midfielders will match last season's goals, actually.
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See above - I await your stats :) I may have exaggerated for effect but I reckon I'm probably not far off in my prediction. And I said midfield. Not centre midfielders. Cotterill, Quinn & Ward will bag 25+ between them. That's where my £50 is.
 
Revolution is your statto, how many came from midfield with Beattie upfront?

Goals (other than penalties) from midfield with Beattie up front (23 games): Quinn 5, Speed 2, Howard 1, Dyer 1

Goals (other than penalties) from midfield with Beattie not up front (23 games):

Halford 4, Quinn 2, O'Toole 1, Howard 1

So it's 9-8 with Beattie in the team. Plus you get Beattie's goals. So your hunch is wrong.

The upturn in fortunes after the Wednesday game last year was nothing to do with Beattie not being in the side, or Henderson being in it. He had left a month before and we had dropped out of the playoff places. The big differences were Cotteril's return and Sharp being replaced with a cast of thousands who all chipped in a bit.

Indeed, there is a fair argument that if Sharp hadn't played at all after the Coventry game (his last goal) we would have gone up automatically.

And I wish we had Deano too. But I'd take Beattie over Hendo every day of the week, and twice on Sundays. Deano was better in his prime, but Beattie replicated one thing Deano did well - score goals - and Hendo doesn't even do the target man bit well because he's a walking free kick.

Cotterill, Quinn & Ward will bag 25+ between them. That's where my £50 is.

If that's 25 not including pens, I'll take that bet as well.
 
Thanks for the stats :) but what's all this "not including penalties" business? Especially from a Beattie fan!!?
 
TonyAgana said:
Thanks for the stats :) but what's all this "not including penalties" business? Especially from a Beattie fan!!?
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Because thats the crap people spout when trying to make out we were better off without Beattie. "Oh but he only scored penalties." "We played better when he left" blah blah blah blah blah

As for Henderson if we had spent an extra mil more we would of got far better for our money.

Henderson will be added to the pile of players we have signed over the last few years for a large fee that have turned out to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. We would be lucky to get half of what we paid for him if we sold him now.
 
Bladesman said:
Because thats the crap people spout when trying to make out we were better off without Beattie. "Oh but he only scored penalties." "We played better when he left" blah blah blah blah blah

As for Henderson if we had spent an extra mil more we would of got far better for our money.

Henderson will be added to the pile of players we have signed over the last few years for a large fee that have turned out to be as much use as a chocolate fireguard. We would be lucky to get half of what we paid for him if we sold him now.
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Totally agree Bladesman, Henderson is totally one dimensional and I think you were very optimistic when you quoted £1 million - I wouldn't sign him on a free except for Blackpool Beach where bhe belongs!
 
Ok Henderson is an ok Championship striker but he doesnt hold a candle to Beattie or for that matter a slightly crippled Hulse.

£2mil+ could of probably gone on someone else.
 

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