Criticising players.

[Bill Johnson]

This whole issue clearly polarised folk on here into a couple of camps. Those who think it's heresy especially under Wilder whereas it seemed more acceptable under his predecessors; and those who simply think it's just part of the vast range of topics which football fans engage in. I thought Nick 'Monty Montgomery did a sterling job for us for the period and managers he played. Many and one in particularly argue vehemently differently.
I think Lundstram is the equivalent of a brick compared to Monty and should consider a career as a traffic cone. It dosent make anyone a bigger Blade to defend the indefensible. IMO it's harder to accept a player just isn't good enough than do "a Woodward Fan" thing.Criticising a players worth isn't anti Wilder and it isn't trying to be a clever twat of an amateur manager. It's simply wanting the team we all support with equal validity to win more games.

 

[mattbianco1]

Lundstram frustrates me because he's actually a decent player but he always tries for the sublime pass. When they come off they look quality and open up defences, but you have to bide your time and play it only when it's on.

Full marks that he sees the pass etc. But he's just not good enough to get that pass accurate every time. One of the reasons why Norwood, Coutts and Fleck are so good is because they will always play the easy ball to keep the ball moving and stretch the oppo that way. Once a gap appears, then they try the killer pass.

If Lundstram can change his style to just play simple balls, he'll actually be a great player.

 

[super_pig]

Lundstram frustrates me because he's actually a decent player but he always tries for the sublime pass. When they come off they look quality and open up defences, but you have to bide your time and play it only when it's on.

Full marks that he sees the pass etc. But he's just not good enough to get that pass accurate every time. One of the reasons why Norwood, Coutts and Fleck are so good is because they will always play the easy ball to keep the ball moving and stretch the oppo that way. Once a gap appears, then they try the killer pass.

If Lundstram can change his style to just play simple balls, he'll actually be a great player.

in his defence i do think he has been thrown off the deep end.. replace our best player. replace our second best player.. i do worry about the stats though i have to admit

 

[Minty]

We can criticise all we like on a forum..........it's when fans boo and jeer our players during matches that I can't understand.

 

[Minty]

Re Lundstram, I don't think he's actually that bad a player but the problem is that he just isn't as good as the players he is replacing in the team, so we are weaker as a consequence.

 

[super_pig]

We can criticise all we like on a forum..........it's when fans boo and jeer our players during matches that I can't understand.

yeah i don't get that either.. you should 'never' boo the shirt. boo anything you fucking like. manager. chairman but anything in the shirt is sacred. there is however an assumption by some members of this forum that people criticising in private on here are those very same people. i would suggest this is not the case..
edit: because to be on here you have to be able to read and write!
sorry couldn't resist. flagged offside but open net. had to tap it in anyway. i'll take the yellow

 

[Bill Johnson]

We can criticise all we like on a forum..........it's when fans boo and jeer our players during matches that I can't understand.

That's a great point and one I should have included. The 90 minutes are all about getting completely behind every player. The post mortems come after.

 

[Sean Thornton]

l've just had a cease and desist letter hand delivered to my door from the Amateur Managers Associations solicitors, Messrs, Dogshit, Wastermoney, Oldpalsact and Pooreyesight.

What should I do?

 

[super_pig]

l've just had a cease and desist letter hand delivered to my door from the Amateur Managers Associations solicitors, Messrs, Dogshit, Wastermoney, Oldpalsact and Pooreyesight.

What should I do?

get hold of big vern

 

[snootyfenooty]

l've just had a cease and desist letter hand delivered to my door from the Amateur Managers Associations solicitors, Messrs, Dogshit, Wastermoney, Oldpalsact and Pooreyesight.

What should I do?

I would say return to sender but I forgot to sign it. Damn.

 

[Bill Johnson]

l've just had a cease and desist letter hand delivered to my door from the Amateur Managers Associations solicitors, Messrs, Dogshit, Wastermoney, Oldpalsact and Pooreyesight.

What should I do?

Wipe your arse on it?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Wipe your arse on it?

But aren't all opinions valid?

 

[Keef Chedwyn]

Re Lundstram, I don't think he's actually that bad a player but the problem is that he just isn't as good as the players he is replacing in the team, so we are weaker as a consequence.

I agree that he's not a bad player at all but we always lose when he plays so I think it would be better if he never played.

 

[snootyfenooty]

But aren't all opinions valid?

I think he was just giving you a heads up. The ink was still wet.

 

[Ned the Donkey]

There are all sorts of reasons for criticising players. Whatever they are, destructive criticism is just lazy. Offer an alternative.

Turns out Lundstram was poor yesterday, but with Fleck (and Coutts) injured, we're in to squad players and he'd done enough against Villa to be given the nod - and that's nothing to do with the tackle on Grealish. His movement and distribution had been excellent. Yesterday was a step backwards.

But if Lundstram was not going to be in the team, who was? Bash in midfield and Stearman at the back? We'd set out to control the ball and did that really well for much of the game. That's not Bash's strength. Can't think what else might have worked.

And repeatedly and relentlessly telling a player he's shit might make whoever's ranting and raving feel better, but it does fuck all to advance the cause of the team.

 

[Redhead]

It is part of the game.

Football is all about opinions and that means any part of the football club will get a pat on the back when good and a bollocking when bad.

If I am shit at work I will be criticized....... why should footballers be different?

Not saying agree with it but it’s life.

When a player earns thousands of pounds a week I think they accept if they are not justifying that salary people will let them know.

Personally I would take the most vile abuse to earn a great salary whilst playing football for a living. I am very sure 99% of footballers will agree.

 

[Bill Johnson]

There are all sorts of reasons for criticising players. Whatever they are, destructive criticism is just lazy. Offer an alternative.

Turns out Lundstram was poor yesterday, but with Fleck (and Coutts) injured, we're in to squad players and he'd done enough against Villa to be given the nod - and that's nothing to do with the tackle on Grealish. His movement and distribution had been excellent. Yesterday was a step backwards.

But if Lundstram was not going to be in the team, who was? Bash in midfield and Stearman at the back? We'd set out to control the ball and did that really well for much of the game. That's not Bash's strength. Can't think what else might have worked.

And repeatedly and relentlessly telling a player he's shit might make whoever's ranting and raving feel better, but it does fuck all to advance the cause of the team.

Yes. Bash in midfield and Stearman at the back. Been said many times. Lundstram plays we very seldom avoid defeat. Lundstram dosent play we often do. It's nothing against the person just his lack of being much kop at football. As I mentioned in my op there seemed little problem slaying Sammon, Higdon, Alcock, Woolford, and ( shudder) that cunt Hammond just to name a few. Why is it an issue with Lundstram? Double standards or do some think it's a dig at Wilder?

 

[Minty]

It is part of the game.

Football is all about opinions and that means any part of the football club will get a pat on the back when good and a bollocking when bad.

If I am shit at work I will be criticized....... why should footballers be different?

Not saying agree with it but it’s life.

When a player earns thousands of pounds a week I think they accept if they are not justifying that salary people will let them know.

Personally I would take the most vile abuse to earn a great salary whilst playing football for a living. I am very sure 99% of footballers will agree.

But if someone was stood over me at work giving me vile abuse or even constantly criticising,, I don't think it would help me to do a better job, which at the end of the day is what's important. Whenever one of ours is wearing the shirt on the pitch, he should be supported.....as long as they are giving 100%

 

[bromtom]

There are all sorts of reasons for criticising players. Whatever they are, destructive criticism is just lazy. Offer an alternative.

Turns out Lundstram was poor yesterday, but with Fleck (and Coutts) injured, we're in to squad players and he'd done enough against Villa to be given the nod - and that's nothing to do with the tackle on Grealish. His movement and distribution had been excellent. Yesterday was a step backwards.

But if Lundstram was not going to be in the team, who was? Bash in midfield and Stearman at the back? We'd set out to control the ball and did that really well for much of the game. That's not Bash's strength. Can't think what else might have worked.

And repeatedly and relentlessly telling a player he's shit might make whoever's ranting and raving feel better, but it does fuck all to advance the cause of the team.

Apart from Bash, Egan, JOC and Hendo, I think generally they were all poor, and JOC didn't do much overlapping either. No-one is blaming Duffy for losing even though he was running the ball into defenders constantly.

It's what you've said really, if not Fleck, it's probably Lundstram, and if Wilder knows this and doesn't alter the system to suit the players he has available then really the buck stops with him.

In the same system you can't play Lundstram and expect him to suddenly be Fleck in the same way you can't start JOC as a striker and complain when he doesn't score a hattrick.

Would I pick Lundstram as the first name in our midfield, no, but he's not to blame for United not being able to adapt and whilever he's putting in a shift for us we should be willing him on.

 

[Bill Johnson]

Apart from Bash, Egan, JOC and Hendo, I think generally they were all poor, and JOC didn't do much overlapping either. No-one is blaming Duffy for losing even though he was running the ball into defenders constantly.

It's what you've said really, if not Fleck, it's probably Lundstram, and if Wilder knows this and doesn't alter the system to suit the players he has available then really the buck stops with him.

In the same system you can't play Lundstram and expect him to suddenly be Fleck in the same way you can't start JOC as a striker and complain when he doesn't score a hattrick.

Would I pick Lundstram as the first name in our midfield, no, but he's not to blame for United not being able to adapt and whilever he's putting in a shift for us we should be willing him on.

Sadly his shift stats coincide with us usually losing.

 

[Cerberus Blade]

Lundstram frustrates me because he's actually a decent player but he always tries for the sublime pass. When they come off they look quality and open up defences, but you have to bide your time and play it only when it's on.

Full marks that he sees the pass etc. But he's just not good enough to get that pass accurate every time. One of the reasons why Norwood, Coutts and Fleck are so good is because they will always play the easy ball to keep the ball moving and stretch the oppo that way. Once a gap appears, then they try the killer pass.

If Lundstram can change his style to just play simple balls, he'll actually be a great player.

Funny how we see it differently. I know what you mean by Lundstram and his ambitious but sometimes wayward passes but my main criticism of him is that he mostly opts for the easy 5 yard one and doesn’t progress play. He seems to slow it down. I cut him some slack because I do think he’s got better and at times he does some good work. But he’s a long way to go when you compare him v the likes of Fleck, Coutts, Norwood.

 

[Rob86]

I’m just not sure what Lundstram’s main attribute is or what type of midfielder he is. He just seems to be ok at everything, which isn’t his fault but compared to Fleck and Noorwood and (hopefully) the returning Coutts he’s way off the pace.

I’d have Basham in midfield over him because you know you’ll get 100% energy, tackling, headers with the odd pirouette and run chucked in for good measure. He’s not a techical player but he doesn’t go into midfield for that. With Lundstram, I just don’t know what his role is.

 

[metalblade]

What did Lundstram do wrong yesterday, was he at fault for their goal or are we blaming the loss on him not burying that shot that the keeper made a good save from ? This Lundstram bashing from sections of the fanbase is becoming quite sickening to be honest.

 

[Bill Johnson]

What did Lundstram do wrong yesterday, was he at fault for their goal or are we blaming the loss on him not burying that shot that the keeper made a good save from ? This Lundstram bashing from sections of the fanbase is becoming quite sickening to be honest.

Please explain what his role is, what range of qualities he has and why he should be anywhere near a football team who's manager aspires to take them to the top flight.

 

[Ned the Donkey]

Yes. Bash in midfield and Stearman at the back.

I don't think that would have worked. They are a good team in this division. We set up to control the ball, and after 10 minutes that's what we ended up doing. For a long time we made them look ordinary. And for all his faults Lundstram played his part in that.

Bash has been immense this season but sticking him in midfield and asking him to move the ball around is not his strength at all. That set up would have been asking for trouble. CW/AK got it right with what they had to work with.

Sadly his shift stats coincide with us usually losing.

Because when he's in the team we're down to squad players in key positions. We're a weaker team when we don't have first choice players. And so we lose more games.

Looking at it a different way, no Fleck and no Coutts against a good team, away. And we control the game for an hour. As management of a squad that's pretty bloody good.

Lundstram had a big chance yesterday, "Look gaffer I'm a safe pair of hands when you need me," and I don't think he took it. But to upgrade you're looking for a better player who's prepared to not get much game time behind a really strong first choice midfield.

I think it was right to keep Lundstram and try to develop him - there is a player in there - but if he doesn't take his chances then CW/AK might make an upgrade a priority for January.

Till then he should get our support and be able to play both without fear, and without having to try too hard, which is what it looked like he was doing yesterday. Unfortunately we've got gobshites giving him grief. And it's not helping.

Anyway, while he's in the Last Chance Saloon he should also try to pick up as much as he can from Norwood: Lundstram gallops - sometimes it's painful to watch - Norwood just kind of glides around, and there's an economy in everything he does, Lundstram is still winding up for a pass when Norwood would have got it away.

Watch and learn.

 

[metalblade]

Please explain what his role is, what range of qualities he has and why he should be anywhere near a football team who's manager aspires to take them to the top flight.

Ask Chris Wilder pal or Alan Knill maybe. If you are still struggling try Football Manager 2018 ...................... and I thought you knew it all Maybe you could explain why Lundstram cost us the game yesterday? Oh and an answer of "he's shit" will not do.

 

[Minty]

What did Lundstram do wrong yesterday, was he at fault for their goal or are we blaming the loss on him not burying that shot that the keeper made a good save from ? This Lundstram bashing from sections of the fanbase is becoming quite sickening to be honest.

But we must have a season's scapegoat.....tis the way of things.

 

[Redhead]

But if someone was stood over me at work giving me vile abuse or even constantly criticising,, I don't think it would help me to do a better job, which at the end of the day is what's important. Whenever one of ours is wearing the shirt on the pitch, he should be supported.....as long as they are giving 100%

Nobody is ‘ leaning over him’ they are expressing their opinions as they see fit.

I will clearly state again..... I don’t agree with it but I can understand why people do it.

People have huge passion for their team and this is the only way they feel they can make their point.

I agree that 100% is a gimme each and every game.

 

[Bill Johnson]

Ask Chris Wilder pal or Alan Knill maybe. If you are still struggling try Football Manager 2018 ...................... and I thought you knew it all Maybe you could explain why Lundstram cost us the game yesterday? Oh and an answer of "he's shit" will not do.

You haven't grasped the concept of actually reading what other people post have you. Especially the bit about amateur football managers which I addressed. You also seem to have anger management issues if someone holds an opinion you disagree with. Vote remain did you perchance?

 

[Sean Thornton]

You haven't grasped the concept of actually reading what other people post have you. Especially the bit about amateur football managers which I addressed. You also seem to have anger management issues if someone holds an opinion you disagree with. Vote remain did you perchance?

"Voted Brexit"




The Sirens of General Chat are calling to you .... come come, come.......

You haven't even begun to answer his point about yesterday's game.


Where's the anger btw?