Consulting the dressing-room

[Slim Man]

They probably don't share the obsession with him that some of our fans have.

An obsession with having good players that might get us promoted? Not sure why they wouldn't want to play with the best players they can

 

[Slim Man]

Another dent in Wilder's managerial armour .

First came his strop about Clarkes "alleged " inability to form an effective partnership with Sharp . He picks him for the Northampton game and is subsequently forced to haul him off when the inevitable happened .

And now we find out he's asking players whether he should sign somebody or not .

Whilst his first ' gaff ' was easily corrected , this second one is far more serious . Too many opinions can and does lead to indecision . And secondly , these requests for opinions from certain players can easily lead to simmering accusations of cliques amongst the first team .

Come on CW don't go down this road .

He brought him off due to injury. Why is the second point a problem?

 

[PeteBlade]

An obsession with having good players that might get us promoted? Not sure why they wouldn't want to play with the best players they can

I know you're not sure.

You've got the Ched blindness.

 

[alcoblade]

In today's Star (which has only positive stories about Carruthers, unlike - apparently - the web-site), Wilder says that he discussed the signing in advance with (unnamed) United players. Can anyone think of other managers who have openly said they have done this? It is hard to imagine big-name managers now or in the past who would have done this as a matter of course, except perhaps with a revered senior pro such as Gerrard.
I read this as yet another plus for Wilder. He wants a strong team-spirit, and is ensuring that new players fit in. And he helps by being seen to be willing to listen to the players and be up-front with them. Or could their be downsides - would it not be human nature for a senior pro to rubbish the character of a potential replacement? How will we react when we learn that we didn't sign the next Messi on McNulty's say so? I am again impressed by Wilder's way of doing things, or am I being naive?

He's winning games, so this will be widely viewed as a master stroke.
If we'd lost the last ten he'd be getting pilloried for this.

Not that I care either way.

UTB

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

He's winning games, so this will be widely viewed as a master stroke.
If we'd lost the last ten he'd be getting pilloried for this.

Not that I care either way.

UTB

You don't care whether we won or lost the last ten games? Shame on you.

 

[Slim Man]

I know you're not sure.

You've got the Ched blindness.

Could just answer the question...

 

[PeteBlade]

Could just answer the question...

If it were any other player with the record he has this season, I doubt you'd be bothered.

And I can understand if the players were consulted and weren't interested.

 

[Slim Man]

If it were any other player with the record he has this season, I doubt you'd be bothered.

And I can understand if the players were consulted and weren't interested.

If I knew what he's done before I might be. I'd rather have Bogle but he's now out of our reach.

Is there a better option than Ched for the price we could get him for?

 

[CarlMcBlade]

Does anyone believe a word the Sheffield star prints .

Yes the date.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

"That lad Carruthers at MK Dons, you've played against him, what do you think of him?"

That conversation is had in most dressing rooms about countless players just about every single day. There isn't a manager in the game that doesn't canvas opinion from players in this way. Non-story if you ask me!

 

[PeteBlade]

If I knew what he's done before I might be. I'd rather have Bogle but he's now out of our reach.

Is there a better option than Ched for the price we could get him for?

What price could we get him for?

Are there strikers in the league better than the Ched you're romanticising? No.

Are there better strikers in the league than current, reality Ched? Yes.

 

[Slim Man]

What price could we get him for?

Are there strikers in the league better than the Ched you're romanticising? No.

Are there better strikers in the league than current, reality Ched? Yes.

Wouldn't be much. Consider his current deal, how much chesterfield are struggling money wise etc.

Well judging on Chesterfield fans, people who've watched him and how he tore our defence a new un for 60 minutes I can't see many better in our price range.

 

[Bartyblade]

I don't think it has anything to do with the Cheltenham incident.
His queries seem to have been more about what Carruthers is like to play against.
I can hardly see somebody like Fleck saying "He's a good player gaffer but I can't play alongside somebody who once did a wee in a pint pot".

Actual Wilder quotes from an unnamed source:-

“We’ve spoken to other pro’s about Samir, including lads at our place, about what they think,” the United manager said. “And they’ve all told us he is a quality player, very tough to compete against. Samir is a quality performer and, as far as we’re concerned, there’s even more to come from him. He ticks all the boxes for what we want here at this football club, including the right character, desire and attitude.”

“Samir was coming towards the end of his deal down there and, arguably, could have waited until it ran out to put himself in a better position money-wise,” Wilder continued. “But that’s not something he was interested in doing which tells you all you need to know. Samir made it clear he wanted to come and that he was excited about the prospect of representing this club, of playing at Bramall Lane.”

“Samir is someone we’ve been tracking for quite a while,” Wilder said. “Sometimes, you bring people in to make an immediate impact and there’s nothing wrong with that. Samir can make an impact because of his ability but he’s also someone for the long-term who we think can grow with this football club.”

Absolutely right - "you've played against this bloke, how good is he as an opponent?"
Simples

 

[Deleted member 1486]

Warnock did it.

Wasn't there something on the documentary where a player mentions someone and he picks up the phone and signs them? I have some vague recollection, but might be imaging it!

 

[Razor1967]

Another dent in Wilder's managerial armour .

First came his strop about Clarkes "alleged " inability to form an effective partnership with Sharp . He picks him for the Northampton game and is subsequently forced to haul him off when the inevitable happened .

And now we find out he's asking players whether he should sign somebody or not .

Whilst his first ' gaff ' was easily corrected , this second one is far more serious . Too many opinions can and does lead to indecision . And secondly , these requests for opinions from certain players can easily lead to simmering accusations of cliques amongst the first team .

Come on CW don't go down this road .

Have faith Luke the "force" is strong....

 

[Deleted member 1486]

Found it:

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

"That lad Carruthers at MK Dons, you've played against him, what do you think of him?"

That conversation is had in most dressing rooms about countless players just about every single day. There isn't a manager in the game that doesn't canvas opinion from players in this way. Non-story if you ask me!

Fair enough. Perhaps Wilder's comment caught my eye because managers are less involved in signings nowadays. Do directors of football spend much time in the dressing-room to canvas opinions?

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Fair enough. Perhaps Wilder's comment caught my eye because managers are less involved in signings nowadays. Do directors of football spend much time in the dressing-room to canvas opinions?

No idea Thumb. I only played to County Senior level, but those conversations happened all the time. Directors of Football wasn't even an idea back then, but Wilder is a bit more hands on. I'd assume a DOF throws names at the manager as possible signings still to get feedback and presume a manager does the same with players, but you might be right and the higher up you go the less the manager manages and the more they work with what they are given.

 

[Cool Clint]

In today's Star (which has only positive stories about Carruthers, unlike - apparently - the web-site), Wilder says that he discussed the signing in advance with (unnamed) United players. Can anyone think of other managers who have openly said they have done this? It is hard to imagine big-name managers now or in the past who would have done this as a matter of course, except perhaps with a revered senior pro such as Gerrard.
I read this as yet another plus for Wilder. He wants a strong team-spirit, and is ensuring that new players fit in. And he helps by being seen to be willing to listen to the players and be up-front with them. Or could their be downsides - would it not be human nature for a senior pro to rubbish the character of a potential replacement? How will we react when we learn that we didn't sign the next Messi on McNulty's say so? I am again impressed by Wilder's way of doing things, or am I being naive?

interesting. might be the modern way and wilder is a revolutionary.

 

[Sheff de party]

In today's Star (which has only positive stories about Carruthers, unlike - apparently - the web-site), Wilder says that he discussed the signing in advance with (unnamed) United players. Can anyone think of other managers who have openly said they have done this? It is hard to imagine big-name managers now or in the past who would have done this as a matter of course, except perhaps with a revered senior pro such as Gerrard.
I read this as yet another plus for Wilder. He wants a strong team-spirit, and is ensuring that new players fit in. And he helps by being seen to be willing to listen to the players and be up-front with them. Or could their be downsides - would it not be human nature for a senior pro to rubbish the character of a potential replacement? How will we react when we learn that we didn't sign the next Messi on McNulty's say so? I am again impressed by Wilder's way of doing things, or am I being naive?

Mourinho had a leadership group in his first stint at Chelsea. Lampard, Terry etc.

 

[PeteBlade]

Well judging on Chesterfield fans, people who've watched him and how he tore our defence a new un for 60 minutes I can't see many better in our price range.

"Tore us a new one for 60 minutes"?

This is the Ched obsession I'm talking about.

It distorts people's minds and makes them lose grip on reality.

 

[sheffielder]

What price could we get him for?

Are there strikers in the league better than the Ched you're romanticising? No.

Are there better strikers in the league than current, reality Ched? Yes.

Who are the better strikers in our league who we could purchase, remembering that Ched is 5 months away from the end of his contract and Chesterfield are flat broke?

Evans against us at Chesterfield had a good game, was hard working and worked the channels. He was unlucky not to bag a couple and set up their goal. Now I don't want us to sign Evans, probably for the same reasons as you but the only reason he's not bagging more goals and being one of the best strikers in this league is because he's playing for Chesterfield.

 

[PeteBlade]

Who are the better strikers in our league who we could purchase, remembering that Ched is 5 months away from the end of his contract and Chesterfield are flat broke?

Evans against us at Chesterfield had a good game, was hard working and worked the channels. He was unlucky not to bag a couple and set up their goal. Now I don't want us to sign Evans, probably for the same reasons as you but the only reason he's not bagging more goals and being one of the best strikers in this league is because he's playing for Chesterfield.

It would depend on what the fee was, and Chesterfield aren't going to give him away for free.

I have no moral reason for not wanting to sign him, he was found not guilty, and as I've said before, if Wilder wants him and the rest of the team do, that's good enough for me.

I just don't buy into the Ched obsession that leads people to say he "tore us a new one" when in fact, as you say, he had a decent enough game, but no where near as decent as made out.

I'm not sure I buy into him only not banging goals in because he's at Chesterfield, Jay O Shea is outscoring him and the Ched of old used to create chances for himself out of nothing.

I'm sure we've scouted him, and they'll know how good he is. I want us signing in form players, the best in this league, to fire us up, I'm just not sure he is that player any longer.

 

[I should coco]

I have no moral reason for not wanting to sign him, he was found not guilty, and as I've said before, if Wilder wants him and the rest of the team do, that's good enough for me.

I just don't buy into the Ched obsession that leads people to say he "tore us a new one" when in fact, as you say, he had a decent enough game, but no where near as decent as made out.

Agree completeley with Pete and the key for me is "if Wilder wants him".

We've previously had players forced on managers (Robson/Sharp, Wilson/Kitson, Wilson/Beattie etc) and it doesn't work out.

We all agree this season is so different to the last 5 and that it is mainly down to Chris Wilder getting so much more out of the existing players and knowing the lower leagues.

Let's put our obsession with Ched to one side and let CW decide.

 

[madeinsheffield]

I think from what I've seen of him, he's not the player he was but still dangerous, looks to me to be a combination of fitness/sharpness.

I can happily accept if we don't sign him as Billy is scoring, I think he would work well with Billy though. The thing that would concern me is if he went to Bolton/Scunthorpe/Bradford and the goals started coming for him playing in a better side and we ended up missing out on autos and a proven goalscorer for not much money

 

[bladesmanluke]

If we don't sign him he'll go to Scunny

 

[Slim Man]

"Tore us a new one for 60 minutes"?

This is the Ched obsession I'm talking about.

It distorts people's minds and makes them lose grip on reality.

He set one up and would have had one himself but for a great save from Moore then a stroke of luck.
Name me 3 better strikers than Ched in league one who we could get for under 500k?

Matty Taylor, Lee Gregory, Zach Clough, Kevin Van Veen would all cost upwards of 7 figures.

He might have only scored 6 for them but that's still 4 more than any striker of ours bar Billy...

 

[Revolution]

A

He set one up and would have had one himself but for a great save from Moore then a stroke of luck.
Name me 3 better strikers than Ched in league one who we could get for under 500k?

Matty Taylor, Lee Gregory, Zach Clough, Kevin Van Veen would all cost upwards of 7 figures.

He might have only scored 6 for them but that's still 4 more than any striker of ours bar Billy...

He's got 1 league goal since August after a hot start. In 15 games.

That's the same record as Leon Clarke. It's worse than Matt Done's record.

 

[Slim Man]

A


He's got 1 league goal since August after a hot start. In 15 games.

That's the same record as Leon Clarke. It's worse than Matt Done's record.

Since august isn't really a stat though is it? You count the whole season or nothing at all. The season doesn't break down into seperate months.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

When people are saying "the Ched of old" are they meaning his first two seasons or just his final one?
Same goes for "in the games I've seen" is that only the Chesterfield/Sheffield United game or have you seen other full games he's played in this year?
I think some fans are romantising Evans now into a level of player that only showed himself for a minority of his Blades career and suggesting he's anywhere near that one seasons levels just does appear to be following the facts. Unfortunate but true.