Confidence and unity

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finlaytheblade said:
It revolves around cash not profile ours matches there's at least .
Fulham gates are poor even with a team with quality all over the pitch.
If we had a team with that quality we would be turning people away..
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The 'London factor' is a massive pull, particularly for foreign players.

If you are on footballers wages London can be a hell of a place to live.
 



Carlton Blade said:
We've been away from top level football for an absolute age. Gates don't matter anymore - Bournemouth are competing with smaller crowds than Fulham.

If you offered a player identical contracts from us and Fulham I'm guessing central London and Fulhams profile means 80% would choose Fulham.

That means you have to outbid clubs like them on wages. And that's how you end up like Wednesday
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And that's one of the reasons Watford are doing what they are doing, and to a lesser extent Brentford.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
And that's one of the reasons Watford are doing what they are doing, and to a lesser extent Brentford.
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Both clubs with extensive scouting networks who bring in players who United just won't have access to. Life in Sheffield for a foreign player in England for the first time? I know I'd pick London every time
 
ChipButtyBlade said:
Stearman looked far from happy after the 3rd goal,can see him muttering to hisen,like Muttley the dog.
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Thought he looked off the pace last night. Partly responsible for the 1st and 3rd goals and, more generally, puffing like a steam train.
 
Nicolaus_Copernicus said:
And that's one of the reasons Watford are doing what they are doing, and to a lesser extent Brentford.
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Not disputing the London factor it goes along way ,I'm talking profile and the interest nationally not the London factor..
Our profile would dwarfs Fulham as we are a bigger club.Bournemouth Burnley are two premiership. clubs who are smaller than us and half of the championship they just happen to be in the elite league!! That Doasnt make them a bigger club than us .
Fulham are lucky like one or two others to have-big . bucks behind them,but that Doasnt make them a bigger club.
Fan base is the way to judge the size of a club and we and Wendy are in the top 20.
Fulham and a few other premiership clu s are well down that list,all credit to them for making the most .of there investment,but it Doasnt change the size of a club and it's profile
 
Danny04 said:
Sorry, my mistake (despite all the evidence) :rolleyes:
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This 'evidence' is no doubt statistically provable and, being a journalist, you have the advantage over me since you will have this information at your finger tips.

Perhaps you would be good enough to provide me with it, based on the following criteria which are obviously critical to the comparison :-

* the percentage of games won / lost when each was in the team

* the average number of goals conceded when each was in the team

I look forward to your reply.
 
I’ll probably get some stick for saying it, but if Bash is one of the first names on the team sheet, we’re always going to get outclassed by the top sides.

He’s been a crucial player for us because of his professionalism and dedication, but he sums up our team in many ways: plucky, dedicated, hard-working and technically limited. Fun to watch though!

I’ll always be grateful to players like him for getting us through tough times, but we’re not getting promoted with League 1 players.

That’s not to say I don’t enjoy watching us and that he and we haven’t had a great season, because we have.
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
This 'evidence' is no doubt statistically provable and, being a journalist, you have the advantage over me since you will have this information at your finger tips.

Perhaps you would be good enough to provide me with it, based on the following criteria which are obviously critical to the comparison :-

* the percentage of games won / lost when each was in the team

* the average number of goals conceded when each was in the team

I look forward to your reply.
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Thanks for the kind offer but I don’t work for you. Here is a stat though

JW career apps, 274. Above L1: 14 (5%)
RS career apps, 409. Above L1: 369 (90%)

For the record Jake’s a fantastic player but I (and Chris) don’t put him above Stearman. You obviously do, which of course is your right :)
 
If I may chime in on the Jake Wright / Stearman stuff... we had some discussion about this on yesterday's podcast - skip to 28:00:

 
If I may chime in on the Jake Wright / Stearman stuff... we had some discussion about this on yesterday's podcast - skip to 28:00:

 



Isaw Joeshaw said:
* the percentage of games won / lost when each was in the team

* the average number of goals conceded when each was in the team
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Beans said:
If I may chime in on the Jake Wright / Stearman stuff...
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Bean and his mate Jay make an excellent point on their podcast, that Jake's stats are massively bouyed by us beating inferior teams every week, in a lower division.

I like Jake and have posted previously about his superb reading of the game. That more than compensates for his age and lack of pace. I think he's found it harder to step up this year, whereas Stearman has played most of his football at this level or higher.

JW is a great player to have around though. Teaching good habbits to the young players and always able to step in when needed. I don't know his contract situation but he has to be worth another 12 months.
 
I should coco said:
Bean and his mate Jay make an excellent point on their podcast, that Jake's stats are massively bouyed by us beating inferior teams every week, in a lower division.

I like Jake and have posted previously about his superb reading of the game. That more than compensates for his age and lack of pace. I think he's found it harder to step up this year, whereas Stearman has played most of his football at this level or higher.

JW is a great player to have around though. Teaching good habbits to the young players and always able to step in when needed. I don't know his contract situation but he has to be worth another 12 months.
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Jake's championship record is excellent, as was United's with him in the team.That's the only evidence we have to go on surely? The stats posted by Danny04 are obviously irrelevant; it's not where you've been it's where your at. Personally I think we have to have an eye on replacing both: Jake isn't getting any younger and Stears isn't good enough for a top two side.
 
Danny04 said:
Thanks for the kind offer but I don’t work for you. Here is a stat though

JW career apps, 274. Above L1: 14 (5%)
RS career apps, 409. Above L1: 369 (90%)

For the record Jake’s a fantastic player but I (and Chris) don’t put him above Stearman. You obviously do, which of course is your right :)
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Ha ha ha - nice try but you and I both know why you produced the stat you did rather than the ones I asked for, don't we ?

The former has no merit and if this is your idea of 'evidence' ( your word , not mine ) then I rest my case.

If the yardstick for judging one players merits against another's is the number of games played at a higher level, then clearly Steven Fletcher is currently a much better striker than Leon Clarke and Adam Reach is vastly superior to John Fleck.

I think even you would admit that this is not the case.
 
I should coco said:
Bean and his mate Jay make an excellent point on their podcast, that Jake's stats are massively bouyed by us beating inferior teams every week, in a lower division.

I like Jake and have posted previously about his superb reading of the game. That more than compensates for his age and lack of pace. I think he's found it harder to step up this year, whereas Stearman has played most of his football at this level or higher.

JW is a great player to have around though. Teaching good habbits to the young players and always able to step in when needed. I don't know his contract situation but he has to be worth another 12 months.
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I don't think he did find it hard to step up . In fact, I would describe his performances in the 10 matches he played to be at worst admirable and, at best, exemplary.

As to his age, I really don't understand why people keep banging on about that. The guy will be 32 on Sunday ( Happy Birthday Jake ). Joe Shaw played until he was 38 and John Terry at 37 has been a key factor in Villa's remarkable upsurge since he came back into the team.

Players with their natural ability and understanding of the art of defending don't need to be the fastest thing on two legs ( Paul McGrath, anyone ? ) and the same applies to Jake and , for all his virtues, CW is not infallible and I believe he has made a mistake in this case.
 
nopigfansintown said:
Jake's championship record is excellent, as was United's with him in the team.That's the only evidence we have to go on surely? The stats posted by Danny04 are obviously irrelevant; it's not where you've been it's where your at. Personally I think we have to have an eye on replacing both: Jake isn't getting any younger and Stears isn't good enough for a top two side.
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Are they irrelevant? Or do they show the respective levels of the two players?
 
nopigfansintown said:
Jake looked more than capable at this level when given the opportunity.Late bloomer.
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Also should consider circumstances when it comes to charting players' career trajectories. I've said it before but lots of things can hamper career progress* besides talent / quality. An injury at a bad time in relation to their contract, being at a club during a bad spell (numerous managers coming and going), being wrongly convicted of a crime... lots of things. Of course it's relevant, but the number of appearances and the level at which they were achieved do only tell part of the "who's better" story.


*Equally, lots of things can boost progress too. A well-timed purple-patch in relation to their contract, being at a club during a good spell, your dad being GK coach at a club with a clueless but loaded chairman ...
 
TonyAgana said:
Also should consider circumstances when it comes to charting players' career trajectories. I've said it before but lots of things can hamper career progress* besides talent / quality. An injury at a bad time in relation to their contract, being at a club during a bad spell (numerous managers coming and going), being wrongly convicted of a crime... lots of things. Of course it's relevant, but the number of appearances and the level at which they were achieved do only tell part of the "who's better" story.


*Equally, lots of things can boost progress too. A well-timed purple-patch in relation to their contract, being at a club during a good spell, your dad being GK coach at a club with a clueless but loaded chairman ...
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Of course. So nothing (like playing inferior teams in L1 and being in the team when it’s in good form) can artificially inflate stats like win percentages?
 
Danny04 said:
Of course. So nothing (like playing inferior teams in L1 and being in the team when it’s in good form) can artificially inflate stats like win percentages?
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I'm a bit late to this debate so not entirely sure what particular point you're getting at, I'm just kind of down on stats being the only measure of judging who's the "better" of two players. Football is art, not science (to me anyway).


*edit: just clocked Isaw's post asking for stats. Yeah, that'd be a bullshit metric for me. But I've not seen that much that separates the two this season. Certainly not enough for Wright to be completely bombed out like he seems to have been. I do find it a bit odd.
 
Isaw Joeshaw said:
a) Yes b ) No
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Sure. :rolleyes:

TonyAgana said:
I'm a bit late to this debate so not entirely sure what particular point you're getting at, I'm just kind of down on stats being the only measure of judging who's the "better" of two players. Football is art, not science (to me anyway).


*edit: just clocked Isaw's post asking for stats. Yeah, that'd be a bullshit metric for me. But I've not seen that much that separates the two this season. Certainly not enough for Wright to be completely bombed out like he seems to have been. I do find it a bit odd.
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I don’t think he’s been bombed as such, just out of the team for a better player (much as Lundstram has for Lee Evans or Lafferty for Enda, although the latter might be up for debate on recent weeks’ form)
 
Danny04 said:
Sure. :rolleyes:



I don’t think he’s been bombed as such, just out of the team for a better player (much as Lundstram has for Lee Evans or Lafferty for Enda, although the latter might be up for debate on recent weeks’ form)
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Just as Stearman and Enda would eventually become redundant if we went up, or went for it next season. It's evolution, nothing against the players and it's not an "agenda" of some of the fans who simply acknowledge this as progress.
 
Our form has been horrendous since jakes not played
Anyone who wasn't involved in the bouncing day massacre is still an outsider at the club to me
 



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