Clough man management

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bertieblade said:
I hear from various sources that Clough was virtually clueless with regard to man management; and the players despite making all the right noises about team spirit etc. were resentful of the man, his methods and his staff.
It could explain some of the gutless displays against inferior teams as the players only seemed to raise themselves for big matches.
This in effect could only be good, as having heard NA interviews and spoken to people who worked with him, he seems to be a fair minded, sensible guy who will earn, as oppose to demand respect.
With this in mind I would expect him to get more out if the same group,of players.
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Various sources ?
 
Clough simply asks for a certain level of commitment from his players, his values may have been old fashioned but I think it's harsh to say he had poor man management. Nowadays most players moan when they're given any criticism or asked to do a bit more. Bassett and warnock were much the same and successful with it, this smacks as just another poor excuse to give Clough a bashing
 
bertieblade said:
The point of the thread is to gauge opinion as to whether we think the new manager will be able to get more out if the same group of players?
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Yes mate, he will but we'll still need a few positions sorting out through the transfer market.
 
ScoobBlade said:
Clough simply asks for a certain level of commitment from his players, his values may have been old fashioned but I think it's harsh to say he had poor man management. Nowadays most players moan when they're given any criticism or asked to do a bit more. Bassett and warnock were much the same and successful with it, this smacks as just another poor excuse to give Clough a bashing
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Unfortunately, for Clough Scoob, records speak for themselves but we shouldn't need to keep bringing it up to remind people of this. He has been found wanting on many occasions during his managerial career and until he achieves a league promotion it will propably continue to be brought up in future.
 
ScoobBlade said:
Various sources ?
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Yes, c'mon Bertie, less of the vague, non-committal, mustn't divulge gossip.....in the space of less than a week you've decided that Adkins is the salt of the earth. Not sure how you arrive at that, won't it take time, plus a few rumours, to decide if NA is doing a decent job? I must admit, Adkins' obvious affection for Billy Sharp, and a clear hunger to sign the player (so far not commented upon other than repeating that Sharp is currently a Leeds player) worries me, but there you go, whoever's in charge will have a question mark hanging over him.

Can you show me an example of where Clough demanded respect? It's this type of retrospective nonsense that contributes to Clough's profile as being a tyrant? He may well have been viewed as less than savoury by some players, but my point is where is your evidence for making such accusations? The worst phrase I read on here is...I heard from undisclosed sources...there's no substance, just a vague, unspecified, empty suggestion, that's all.

In case you need reminding, I'm one of those who considered Clough a good fit for the Blades. Trouble was, during last season I was witness to the same facts as other supporters - the center half fiasco, the obvious clash of personalities with certain players, and the number of players Clough bought, a reasonable number who were at best adequate and at worst poor. Of course there's an upside, Basham evolved from the position of hated player to someone who we all recognise as being worthy of wearing the shirt. Then there's Done. How many remember the opinions that pilloried his purchase? There were some on here who wanted a known forward, not someone who we barely knew a thing about. Yet what we purchased was a player who raised supporter's expectations whenever he received the ball. Talk about a lack of patience! I'd have preferred that we'd bought seven or eight players of obvious quality, and maybe that would have been the difference between struggling for a good part of the season and being in contention for a promotion place. But it was what it was, things will change though, players will move on, new ones will take their place, and it will be this that determines if Adkins can do what far too many managers before him have been unable to achieve. If Adkins gets us promoted he'll be flavour of the month, or season, and he'll buy himself enough time to continue in the same direction. I hope for his sake (it goes without saying that my wish for the club is to be successful) that Adkins can do what other managers have failed to do.

Bertie, you may have a point, perhaps there was a side to Clough that we'll never know about. Personally, I'm not really interested in conjecture, rumour, speculation, or whatever bit of tittle-tattle contributes to this opinion of Clough. I suppose it fills a void of some sort, maybe it brings some supporters that bit closer to an environment they'll never stand a chance of belonging to. Living a life through rumour strikes me as sad and detached from the real world.
 
I can't believe that there is nothing else to talk about other than a former employee who was sacked. Clough is gone, nothing but a minor footnote in the history of our club - he wasn't the Messiah and he wasn't Satan so lets move on.
 
Bert said:
Clough, Adkins... Who cares?

It all started going downhill when we began employing managers who didn't wear one of these for the team photo.
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Ha ha!

sheffield_united.jpg
 
Silent Blade said:
Ha ha!

sheffield_united.jpg
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Cracking cardie Silent...great photo. Also love the way Harris and Colwell are referred to as Mr.

What a good side that was....from old Salmons and Currie, through to the half man, half beast that was the welsh terror Hockey.

No sign of a masseur, psychologist, stats person, etc...my, how the game has changed, and how the payroll has expanded too!

Compared to our current crop Krankie impersonators that was quite a physically intimidating team too.
 
alcoblade said:
I fully accept that it's about money in football. But Brayford took a pay cut to come and play for him. Too many came back for him to have been some impossible Ogre.

I think there was plenty of scope for criticising Clough, as I often did. There's really no need to invent new ways. :)

UTB
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This. If you want to lace into the bloke theres plenty for debate. Win records, cup records, semi finals, play off failures, these are all facts. Going into the realms of "I heard it from a lobster who heard it from a seal" etc etc smells a bit of post season trouble making to me.
 
wizadry said:
We must have different perceptions as to what giving 100% is and looks like, they had a funny way of showing they cared for the Red and White stripes last season, maybe that was how Cloughy got them looking.
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But whether they "cared" or not comes down to opinion and supposition along with the fishwives tales of who said what to who. It didn't work, the manager carried the can (as they always do) and we get yet another one for the fans to divide for/against over time. Twas ever thus.
 



Bladesway said:
But whether they "cared" or not comes down to opinion and supposition along with the fishwives tales of who said what to who. It didn't work, the manager carried the can (as they always do) and we get yet another one for the fans to divide for/against over time. Twas ever thus.
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Yes mate, i said as much in my follow up post to Swiss, fair enough mate if that's how you saw it is what i put. I'm personally very glad we're not going to have to put up with Clough next season and i'm very pleased with the appointment so onwards and upwards to yet another new dawn, hopefully a successful one.
 
wizadry said:
Yes mate, i said as much in my follow up post to Swiss, fair enough mate if that's how you saw it is what i put. I'm personally very glad we're not going to have to put up with Clough next season and i'm very pleased with the appointment so onwards and upwards to yet another new dawn, hopefully a successful one.
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The point I was making is that it is difficult to say or quantify if they cared. I believe they probably did they either weren't good enough often enough or just plain aren't good enough to make it work. This can of course include the manager as to whether he cares/is good enough etc. I don't fall into the "didn't have a clue" or "can't motive players" or "bollocked people so he must be shit". Actually a lot of this with regards a manager comes down to luck. I think Adkins is a combination of a good manager, but also a lucky one to have inherited a squad that, with a couple of additions can compete regularly enough to get enough points to get us to the top of the table.

I think what pisses most people off (myself included) is you see a performance like the cup ones, or Bristol City away, or Barnsley/Doncaster away or a few of the other ones and think "if they can play like that, why don't they". Especially when sitting through Fleetwood at home or the like.
 
Bert said:
Clough, Adkins... Who cares?

It all started going downhill when we began employing managers who didn't wear one of these for the team photo.
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Mate, it's all gone down hill since we started employing managers.

We've never won anything of significance with one.
 
Bladesway said:
The point I was making is that it is difficult to say or quantify if they cared. I believe they probably did they either weren't good enough often enough or just plain aren't good enough to make it work. This can of course include the manager as to whether he cares/is good enough etc. I don't fall into the "didn't have a clue" or "can't motive players" or "bollocked people so he must be shit". Actually a lot of this with regards a manager comes down to luck. I think Adkins is a combination of a good manager, but also a lucky one to have inherited a squad that, with a couple of additions can compete regularly enough to get enough points to get us to the top of the table.

I think what pisses most people off (myself included) is you see a performance like the cup ones, or Bristol City away, or Barnsley/Doncaster away or a few of the other ones and think "if they can play like that, why don't they". Especially when sitting through Fleetwood at home or the like.
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I think you can tell with your own eyes whether they put enough effort in, although it is down to how you see it personally.

The runs that wasn't been made and also the pass then no movement backs my evidence up, unless Clough told them not to move or make runs from midfield which i very much doubt, there was just pure laziness at times and who that is down to i don't know but for me it was there for all to see.

Adkins still has a lot to do but he does have some good League one players here, lets see what he can do with them.

The good performances were very good but as you say there just wasn't nowhere near enough of them and does make you wonder what the fuck we were messing about at sometimes.
 
wizadry said:
I think you can tell with your own eyes whether they put enough effort in, although it is down to how you see it personally.

The runs that wasn't been made and also the pass then no movement backs my evidence up, unless Clough told them not to move or make runs from midfield which i very much doubt, there was just pure laziness at times and who that is down to i don't know but for me it was there for all to see.

Adkins still has a lot to do but he does have some good League one players here, lets see what he can do with them.

The good performances were very good but as you say there just wasn't nowhere near enough of them and does make you wonder what the fuck we were messing about at sometimes.
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Wiz,

Not aimed at you, just a general observation:

Is there any justification for a bunch of Lesgue One players not caring or not making an effort because they don't rate the manager? You might understand it from Pele, Beckenbauer or Platini because they've earned the right - but they wouldn't, because they have pride and class.

Average and worse players have no right whatsoever to say who their manager should be, nor any right to reflect such views in the level of effort and commitment. Who the fuck do they think they are?

Not only is it not acceptable for any professional footballer to give less than 100% it is, as I say elsewhere, disgraceful and supporters should condemn those players as unprofessional, cheating wankers, not turn it into an excuse to blame the gaffer's man-management skills. If any of our players, including those with exotic names have at any time, failed to give everything for the shirt and their own pride in performance, they should be tarred and feathered then run out of town at sundown.

Those who think it's OK for players to exert this sort of power and influence should reflect that it could happen to a manager they like as well as one they don't!
 
Pinchy said:
Wiz,

Not aimed at you, just a general observation:

Is there any justification for a bunch of Lesgue One players not caring or not making an effort because they don't rate the manager? You might understand it from Pele, Beckenbauer or Platini because they've earned the right - but they wouldn't, because they have pride and class.

Average and worse players have no right whatsoever to say who their manager should be, nor any right to reflect such views in the level of effort and commitment. Who the fuck do they think they are?

Not only is it not acceptable for any professional footballer to give less than 100% it is, as I say elsewhere, disgraceful and supporters should condemn those players as unprofessional, cheating wankers, not turn it into an excuse to blame the gaffer's man-management skills. If any of our players, including those with exotic names have at any time, failed to give everything for the shirt and their own pride in performance, they should be tarred and feathered then run out of town at sundown.

Those who think it's OK for players to exert this sort of power and influence should reflect that it could happen to a manager they like as well as one they don't!
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This is why I cannot accept Baxter.
 
wizadry said:
Brayford will have got 250k signing on fee so i don't think he'll be short of a few bob. Davies i agree with.
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Of all the players I don't think Brayford came for money. More than good enough for a top end championship side he'd be on much better than top end league one
 
SwissBlade said:
Of all the players I don't think Brayford came for money. More than good enough for a top end championship side he'd be on much better than top end league one
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I'm not suggesting he did mate, i was making the point that although he will be on less wages with us the signing on fee will have more than made up for it. Brayford is definately a Championship player playing below his standard, there's no doubting that and what he did by moving to us has me thinking that not all footballers are pampered overrated wankers.
 
Pinchy said:
Wiz,

Not aimed at you, just a general observation:

Is there any justification for a bunch of Lesgue One players not caring or not making an effort because they don't rate the manager? You might understand it from Pele, Beckenbauer or Platini because they've earned the right - but they wouldn't, because they have pride and class.

Average and worse players have no right whatsoever to say who their manager should be, nor any right to reflect such views in the level of effort and commitment. Who the fuck do they think they are?

Not only is it not acceptable for any professional footballer to give less than 100% it is, as I say elsewhere, disgraceful and supporters should condemn those players as unprofessional, cheating wankers, not turn it into an excuse to blame the gaffer's man-management skills. If any of our players, including those with exotic names have at any time, failed to give everything for the shirt and their own pride in performance, they should be tarred and feathered then run out of town at sundown.

Those who think it's OK for players to exert this sort of power and influence should reflect that it could happen to a manager they like as well as one they don't!
Click to expand...
Brilliant observation and post, anybody that even thinks they can getaway with not giving 100% for the Blades should be made to think again. I don't think some of them were made to think again last season but that's only my opinion. I thought there were too many players getting away with all sorts last season, poor performances been the prime example then getting a game the week after.

We should have had enough players last season to bench any player that wasn't pulling his weight, that didn't seem to be the case with some though, they never seemed to step it up as if they knew they'd get a place no matter how they played.

Cloughy had many many faults but the players certainly should take some of the flack, although we don't really know whether they were merely following slow and ponderous instructions or just been pathetic themselves most of the time.
 
wizadry said:
I'm not suggesting he did mate, i was making the point that although he will be on less wages with us the signing on fee will have more than made up for it. Brayford is definately a Championship player playing below his standard, there's no doubting that and what he did by moving to us has me thinking that not all footballers are pampered overrated wankers.
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Off topic but do players even get signing on fees anymore?
 



wizadry said:
Brilliant observation and post, anybody that even thinks they can getaway with not giving 100% for the Blades should be made to think again. I don't think some of them were made to think again last season but that's only my opinion. I thought there were too many players getting away with all sorts last season, poor performances been the prime example then getting a game the week after.

We should have had enough players last season to bench any player that wasn't pulling his weight, that didn't seem to be the case with some though, they never seemed to step it up as if they knew they'd get a place no matter how they played.

Cloughy had many many faults but the players certainly should take some of the flack, although we don't really know whether they were merely following slow and ponderous instructions or just been pathetic themselves most of the time.
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One things for sure, although Adkins as inherited the squad clough left, he as no allegiance as regards them having played for him before. Therefore if they are not performing, or giving 110 % , they will be out on their ear, whoever they are.
 
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