Chris Wilders quote

[1danewhitehouse]

yes whereas the whole argument is based on him saying Adkins tried to move out 20 players

dont think that has a great deal of strength in it

Actually, my whole argument was that when you have 40 contracted professionals, most of whom are rubbish, injured or out of form, it's very difficult to overhaul the squad until some of those contracts expire. You claimed it was easy and cited the fact that Kevin Blackwell took Nathan Dyer on loan but then didn't later renew his loan as evidence that it's easy to bin 40 unwanted contracted players. But claimed that when Adkins loaned players out it didn't count or that when he moved players on they had retired and it had nothing to do with him. You then said loads of stuff that blatantly wasn't true, told other posters they were saying things they weren't and generally made a fool of yourself. Just another day on the forum for you I suppose.

 

[blade too long]

Actually, my whole argument was that when you have 40 contracted professionals, most of whom are rubbish, injured or out of form, it's very difficult to overhaul the squad until some of those contracts expire. You claimed it was easy and cited the fact that Kevin Blackwell took Nathan Dyer on loan but then didn't later renew his loan as evidence that it's easy to bin 40 unwanted contracted players. But claimed that when Adkins loaned players out it didn't count or that when he moved players on they had retired and it had nothing to do with him. You then said loads of stuff that blatantly wasn't true, told other posters they were saying things they weren't and generally made a fool of yourself. Just another day on the forum for you I suppose.

I said it was easier than Adkins made it look
he lacked the will or nous to offload what was necessary
leaving the under 23 s out of it
he needed to remove players even he didnt have plans for
but more importantly bring some in , which was a near total failure

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I said it was easier than Adkins made it look
he lacked the will or nous to offload what was necessary
leaving the under 23 s out of it
he needed to remove players even he didnt have plans for
but more importantly bring some in , which was a near total failure

The entirety of this post is based on nothing more than guesswork as to what happened. You have no idea what he did to try to get players out or in or to what extent he was backed to do so.

 

[blade too long]

The entirety of this post is based on nothing more than guesswork as to what happened. You have no idea what he did to try to get players out or in or to what extent he was backed to do so.

well your completely happy then with the final result
To your mind Adkins did all he could

the actual squad he left CW with your a 100 per cent happy he did everything possible to make it better

well thats your choice

I think he could have done far more, that is all
not really guesswork just based on what CW found when he got here after Adkins year to improve on a play off team he inherited

 

[1danewhitehouse]

well your completely happy then with the final result
To your mind Adkins did all he could

the actual squad he left CW with your a 100 per cent happy he did everything possible to make it better

well thats your choice

I think he could have done far more, that is all
not really guesswork just based on what CW found when he got here after Adkins year to improve on a play off team he inherited

I never said I was happy with the result or that he did everything he could. Your trying to tell people what they think again. What I am saying is that the circumstances he inherited were very difficult and I suspect most managers would have struggled to overhaul the squad and build a promotion winning team. Wilder has done a fantastic job but the circumstances have been chalk and cheese. Inheriting a smaller squad (still too big though) and being able to release about 12 out of contract players as soon as you walk through the door makes an absolute world of difference to your ability to recruit. That's just common sense. My original statement that it is far harder to get rid of a full squad of underachieving contracted professionals than just a handful is also just common sense.

To summarise, I don't think Adkins was a huge success or did a sterling job, I do think Wilder is doing an excellent job. But despite all of that, I can acknowledge that the circumstances Adkins worked under were far more difficult. I don't know if he'd have been successful given the chance to rebuild the squad. Given how well Wilder has done, it'd unlikely Adkins would have done better. But he would probably have improved on last season with his own players in place.

 

[blade too long]

I never said I was happy with the result or that he did everything he could. Your trying to tell people what they think again. What I am saying is that the circumstances he inherited were very difficult and I suspect most managers would have struggled to overhaul the squad and build a promotion winning team. Wilder has done a fantastic job but the circumstances have been chalk and cheese. Inheriting a smaller squad (still too big though) and being able to release about 12 out of contract players as soon as you walk through the door makes an absolute world of difference to your ability to recruit. That's just common sense. My original statement that it is far harder to get rid of a full squad of underachieving contracted professionals than just a handful is also just common sense.

To summarise, I don't think Adkins was a huge success or did a sterling job, I do think Wilder is doing an excellent job. But despite all of that, I can acknowledge that the circumstances Adkins worked under were far more difficult. I don't know if he'd have been successful given the chance to rebuild the squad. Given how well Wilder has done, it'd unlikely Adkins would have done better. But he would probably have improved on last season with his own players in place.

your being an apologist
he had a squad that had just finished 5th but was a bit bloated
his remit was to tweek it , reduce it a little and add to it
Sharp apart he failed absolutely and completely to enhance and trim it

boo hoo he had some difficult choices to deal with

but thats the difference between good management and adkins piss poor attempt at it

are you his agent

 

[RealMcCoy]

leaving now.....don't think I'll revisit this thread.

 

[Grappler]

That's interesting, because different to what my son is going to be on next season with another club. However I know someone who will be a first year scholar with United and they will be putting him up in digs, which obviously will cost the club.
I can only go on what happens at my lads club but the structure you describe is different. I thought it would be pretty similar everywhere to be honest.

Yep, this is true, they pay for the digs and they pay for the owner of the digs to look after them. I met a mate of mine about a few years ago in a boozer (we were both going to the same gig, bumped into each other, not a planned meeting) and he was with three other blokes, one of whom looked after two Sheffield United lads (one of them was CJ Hamilton, can't remember who the other was). He reminded me of a youth club type of worker (maybe that was his back ground) and he was saying how some of these lads arrive aged 16, 17, and can only just make a slice of toast, totally helpless and away from parents for the first time.

He said there a a handful of such "families" round the city who look after young footballers and it is effectively a full tine job, so SUFC pick up the housing cost and the parenting cost (or whatever it is called).

 

[BushBlade]

your being an apologist
he had a squad that had just finished 5th but was a bit bloated
his remit was to tweek it , reduce it a little and add to it
Sharp apart he failed absolutely and completely to enhance and trim it

boo hoo he had some difficult choices to deal with

but thats the difference between good management and adkins piss poor attempt at it

are you his agent

I can't believe this is still going on.

Let me put a simple proposition to you.

Is it easier to trim a squad if

1. Five out of thirty are out of contract.
2. Fifteen out of thirty are out of contract?

That's the crux of the point; whether it was easier for CW to get players out than it was for Adkins.

It's irrelevant whether Adkins could have made a better job of it, that isn't the original point. A better manager may well have got rid of more than Adkins did but that doesn't mean the job was easy.

No one is apologising for Adkins (well, I'm not) he had a mare here and I can't stand hearing his voice anymore but there is no logical argument to support the contention that his job in shifting players out was as 'easy' as Wilder's. It just wasn't.

 

[blade too long]

I can't believe this is still going on.

Let me put a simple proposition to you.

Is it easier to trim a squad if

1. Five out of thirty are out of contract.
2. Fifteen out of thirty are out of contract?


It's irrelevant whether Adkins could have made a better job of it,.

I agree on both your points
but the last line was my original point
Adkins could and should have done a lot better , not just for us
but for himself
he left here looking clueless on how to operate in football today

the exact numbers of who left who was on contract are the irrelevant bits

the proof is in the pudding
and Adkins proved he was a pudding

 

[BushBlade]

I agree on both your points
but the last line was my original point
Adkins could and should have done a lot better , not just for us
but for himself
he left here looking clueless on how to operate in football today

the exact numbers of who left who was on contract are the irrelevant bits

the proof is in the pudding
and Adkins proved he was a pudding

He was a massive pudding but shifting players out is one of the jobs where you're dependent on others; finding a club that want the player, doing a deal the board will sanction, getting the board to shell out to play players off etc so it's difficult to know how much blame can be attributed to Adkins alone.
Things like tactics and team selection were aspects that he had control over so only he can be blamed for his failure to get those right.

How bad he was getting players out is part supposition, how bad he was at picking the team and setting them up is evidenced fact.

 

[blade too long]

He was a massive pudding but shifting players out is one of the jobs where you're dependent on others; finding a club that want the player, doing a deal the board will sanction, getting the board to shell out to play players off etc so it's difficult to know how much blame can be attributed to Adkins alone.
Things like tactics and team selection were aspects that he had control over so only he can be blamed for his failure to get those right.

How bad he was getting players out is part supposition, how bad he was at picking the team and setting them up is evidenced fact.

he just wasted miles too much time on Dan Burns and the like
contrast that with CW , enquired about one got a hummm
he moved on and got another
Adkins wasted months , not days chasing unattainable players
he could have spent another 8 weeks removing a few and getting 1 or 2 fresh faces in , even different not neccesarily better to see if he could improve the balance

just 2 more out and 2 in could have seen such a difference

 

[BushBlade]

he just wasted miles too much time on Dan Burns and the like
contrast that with CW , enquired about one got a hummm
he moved on and got another
Adkins wasted months , not days chasing unattainable players
he could have spent another 8 weeks removing a few and getting 1 or 2 fresh faces in , even different not neccesarily better to see if he could improve the balance

just 2 more out and 2 in could have seen such a difference

Adkins tells a different story. I heard him on TalkSport a week or so ago and he seemed to intimate he received no backing in the JTW. And after Woolford and Hammond I wouldn't be that surprised if it was the case.

He sounded very bitter, I think he only called us 'Sheffield United' once and then kept referring to us as 'Sheffield' or 'the last club'.

I can see why he's bitter but he's a professional. He should have appreciated the challenges ahead of him, been aware of potential issues like Clough's players not taking to him because he's like their mum's new boyfriend after she's dumped dad and worked out how to deal with it, or been honest with himself and not taken the job, like McCall did when he looked at the difficulty of the job, thought he had little chance of making it work and said 'no thanks'.

He came across as incredibly naive. He was brought in to get us promoted and we didn't even make the playoffs. Everyone in football knows the bottom line is results. And everything about him; his team selections, his tactics, his signings, his results, the team's performances, was mediocre.

I get the impression that from day one, he wasn't aware of what he was walking into and just never got to grips with it. I'd have thought after Reading he'd have chosen his next club carefully but I suppose it's hard to turn down a club with our potential.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

your being an apologist
he had a squad that had just finished 5th but was a bit bloated
his remit was to tweek it , reduce it a little and add to it
Sharp apart he failed absolutely and completely to enhance and trim it

boo hoo he had some difficult choices to deal with

but thats the difference between good management and adkins piss poor attempt at it

are you his agent

I'm not being an apologist at all, Just acknowledging the constraints he was working under here. He lost the only 2 good performers from Clough's team (Murphy and Brayford) and had to try to cobble things together from a bloated, imbalanced bang average, poorly disciplined squad. But I've said it before, he underachieved as his recruitment should have been better. For what he allegedly paid Hammond we should have got more for our money. Sharp was a good signing though. As I say, none of will ever know whether he's have succeeded given the chance to rebuild the squad in the summer. My guess? We'd probably be a playoff team?