Central midfield

[Bergen Blade]

Our options in central midfield:

• Che Adams
• Chris Basham
• Jose Baxter
• Domenic Calvert-Lewin
• Florent Cuvelier
• Ben Davies
• Connor Dimaio
• Michael Doyle
• Otis Khan
• Stephen McGinn
• Louis Reed
• Stefan Scougall
• Kieran Wallace
• James Wallace
• Ben Whiteman

15 players. Some can play in different positions, but if they all get fit and have to fight for only two central midfield spots, a lot of them are going to be disappointed. Is it safe to say that we won't be looking to recruit in this area in January?

 

[Bladesman]

I can some of them being sent out on loan.

McGinn will probably be sold I reckon.

 

[pommpey]

Another experienced central defender and two permanent, established forwards are our targets. We have a midfield full of options but we need to think about two up front as a strategy. I could never see the logic of 'lone striker' unless you are one up and it is the 80th minute and you are trying to contain a late push for an equaliser and you are playing 5-4-1 or 4-5-1, in which case the lone striker becomes a 'ball sponge' and chases/takes it out into their half. We don't have the support attacking midfield to play lone striker anyway. And we need to think about cutting our losses on Higdon and Porter and get them shifted on. One thing is certain, whoever comes in in the next fifty odd days needs to start shitting Tiffany cufflinks (to paraphrase) for us to sustain any hopes of promotion this season. Forget being cup tarts, We could get as far as we did last season and see fuck all return for it (as we have this season). We need to get up into the Championship.

pommpey

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

Our options in central midfield:

• Che Adams
• Chris Basham
• Jose Baxter
• Domenic Calvert-Lewin
• Florent Cuvelier
• Ben Davies
• Connor Dimaio
• Michael Doyle
• Otis Khan
• Stephen McGinn
• Louis Reed
• Stefan Scougall
• Kieran Wallace
• James Wallace
• Ben Whiteman

15 players. Some can play in different positions, but if they all get fit and have to fight for only two central midfield spots, a lot of them are going to be disappointed. Is it safe to say that we won't be looking to recruit in this area in January?

Half these players don't even play central midfield, a lot are also youth prospects which will likely never get a game for us. We should always look to improve the squad but yes we would likely have to let go of some before we can bring anyone in.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Half these players don't even play central midfield, a lot are also youth prospects which will likely never get a game for us. We should always look to improve the squad but yes we would likely have to let go of some before we can bring anyone in.

Which of those can't play in central midfield? All on the list have at least been in a match day squad.

 

[Liaminho9]

Which of those can't play in central midfield? All on the list have at least been in a match day squad.

• Che Adams - Striker
• Chris Basham - Better CB than CM
• Jose Baxter
• Domenic Calvert-Lewin
• Florent Cuvelier
• Ben Davies - RM or RB
• Connor Dimaio
• Michael Doyle
• Otis Khan - Winger
• Stephen McGinn
• Louis Reed
• Stefan Scougall
• Kieran Wallace - LB or LM
• James Wallace
• Ben Whiteman

 

[DSB-91]

Which of those can't play in central midfield? All on the list have at least been in a match day squad.

All of them can but a lot of them aren't really in contention to start there at the moment.

Basham and Davies are rarely used at MC. McGinn clearly isn't in Clough's plans and probably needs to leave in January.

Dimao, Calvert-Lewis, Khan and Whiteman are youth players who may never break into the first team and would likely only be used off the bench this season unless they really impressed Clough.

Che Adams and Kieran Wallace are 'ones for the future' as well plus as Liaminho points out can both play elsewhere.

So really that leaves Baxter, Cuvelier, Doyle, Reed, Scougal and J Wallace. Still a lot but Cuvelier needs to be slowly brought back and may not be ready to start games for a while and Wallace is almost permanently injured.

 

[Bergen Blade]

• Che Adams - Striker
• Chris Basham - Better CB than CM
• Ben Davies - RM or RB
• Otis Khan - Winger
• Kieran Wallace - LB or LM

• Adams - Ilkeston fans say he's played more in midfield for them, though I've not seen Clough say anything about his plans.
• Basham - I never said central midfield necessarily was their best position.
• Davies has also played centrally for us.
• Khan has also played as an attacking central midfielder for our youth teams
• Wallace played mostly central midfield as a youngster at Nottingham Forest, only occasionally left midfield. He played both left back and central midfield for Ilkeston. He was in central midfield in an U21 friendly a few days ago.

 

[Living In a Fantasy World]

Which of those can't play in central midfield? All on the list have at least been in a match day squad.

any player could play central midfield, Clough might pop Howard there for a match. but most of these players won't be "fighting" for that particular role!

 

[Bladesway]

Another experienced central defender and two permanent, established forwards are our targets. We have a midfield full of options but we need to think about two up front as a strategy. I could never see the logic of 'lone striker' unless you are one up and it is the 80th minute and you are trying to contain a late push for an equaliser and you are playing 5-4-1 or 4-5-1, in which case the lone striker becomes a 'ball sponge' and chases/takes it out into their half. We don't have the support attacking midfield to play lone striker anyway. And we need to think about cutting our losses on Higdon and Porter and get them shifted on. One thing is certain, whoever comes in in the next fifty odd days needs to start shitting Tiffany cufflinks (to paraphrase) for us to sustain any hopes of promotion this season. Forget being cup tarts, We could get as far as we did last season and see fuck all return for it (as we have this season). We need to get up into the Championship.

pommpey

Can't argue with much of that. Higdon't won't be going anywhere however. With the one up front thing, I can only understand it if you have great pace with your attacking midfielders and/or great quality up front. I don't see it so we struggle to get support around our one up front. Gone are the days when one quick one up front sprang the offside trap and sauntered through to score. Problem is the average Higdon looks even worse when exposed on his own up top because his touch isn't really all that and his hold up play is worse in my opinion than Porter. Cue rage from somewhere but its true. Its not their fault (Higdon and Porter) but you have to wonder why the management cannot see this isn't working.

 

[DSB-91]

It's not as if all of those players are just sat around, twiddling their thumbs and waiting for a central mid spot to open up though. Most are competing for other positions or still developing with the youth squad.

It's not a problem unless we're wasting a large chunk of our wage bill on players who will never play. I think that's only true in McGinn's case who seems to be stranded in the reserves.

 

[Bergen Blade]

any player could play central midfield, Clough might pop Howard there for a match. but most of these players won't be "fighting" for that particular role!

No, any player can't play central midfield. Clough has said that he likes versatile players and often mentions which positions he thinks people can play, hence the list. Clough now seems to consider playing 4-4-2 more often, which implies only two central midfield positions. Most on the list will be hoping to at least get into the squad at some stage this season, but with so many to compete with that looks unrealistic.

 

[Blade58]

Our options in central midfield:

• Che Adams
• Chris Basham
• Jose Baxter
• Domenic Calvert-Lewin
• Florent Cuvelier
• Ben Davies
• Connor Dimaio
• Michael Doyle
• Otis Khan
• Stephen McGinn
• Louis Reed
• Stefan Scougall
• Kieran Wallace
• James Wallace
• Ben Whiteman

15 players. Some can play in different positions, but if they all get fit and have to fight for only two central midfield spots, a lot of them are going to be disappointed. Is it safe to say that we won't be looking to recruit in this area in January?

So when Clough said he was looking at going with an 18-19 man squad, did he get a bit mixed up and meant an 18-19 man midfield?

Nigel your'e 3 players short mate. May I suggest you sell the 3 strikers to make way for a further 3 midfielders

 

[Revolution]

The sad thing about that list is there are very few players in it who I would be confident of in the midfield 2 of a 4-4-2 formation.

Which is a shame, because I think that's the key to promotion.

 

[pommpey]

The sad thing about that list is there are very few players in it who I would be confident of in the midfield 2 of a 4-4-2 formation.

Which is a shame, because I think that's the key to promotion.

Think about when we had McCall and Brown in those two roles. The only viable comparison we have are Doyle in the McCall holding role and possibly Scougall/Reed/Wallace in the box-to-box/drop off front pairing goalscorer provider.

It's like saying Celtic are as good as Man City just because they are top of each respective FA league.

pommpey

 

[Revolution]

Think about when we had McCall and Brown in those two roles. The only viable comparison we have are Doyle in the McCall holding role and possibly Scougall/Reed/Wallace in the box-to-box/drop off front pairing goalscorer provider.

It's like saying Celtic are as good as Man City just because they are top of each respective FA league.

pommpey

I think a fit Wallace could do it with Doyle. But I don't think a fit Wallace is something we will see much.

Scougall and Reed can't do that job if Doyle is the other man . Too lightweight unfortunately.

 

[pommpey]

I think a fit Wallace could do it with Doyle. But I don't think a fit Wallace is something we will see much.

Scougall and Reed can't do that job if Doyle is the other man . Too lightweight unfortunately.

Scougs and Reed are at the moment. Scougall has a good engine though, if lacking tactically. Reed has a good sense of direction and ball play. Like-for-like him with Monty and you have a reverse comparison. I think given some time on the bench to come on at 60 minutes and then more of a role he could be great come 20-23. Trouble is, we are so late in the season these days, gambling on giving shirts to young uns is not going to give us much leverage.

pommpey

 

[Bergen Blade]

I think a fit Wallace could do it with Doyle. But I don't think a fit Wallace is something we will see much.

Scougall and Reed can't do that job if Doyle is the other man . Too lightweight unfortunately.

Not just that, I think a bit more playmaking is required from the defensive midfielder if we go 4-4-2, someone who can hold on to the ball despite being under pressure and still find a constructive pass forward. Doyle's passing is ok when he is not under pressure, but he very rarely moves forward on the ball, and very often his passes are sideways/backwards to full backs, which means the opposition maintain men behind the ball.

 

[SouthEssexBlade]

Not just that, I think a bit more playmaking is required from the defensive midfielder if we go 4-4-2, someone who can hold on to the ball despite being under pressure and still find a constructive pass forward. Doyle's passing is ok when he is not under pressure, but he very rarely moves forward on the ball, and very often his passes are sideways/backwards to full backs, which means the opposition maintain men behind the ball.

Wallace, you mean? I think that was the point of the signing. In modern parlance more of a quarter-back role than defensive midfielder role. It hasn't happened because of his injuries, and Doyle has filled the role with a different system. January may see a new plan emerge.

 

[pommpey]

Wallace, you mean? I think that was the point of the signing. In modern parlance more of a quarter-back role than defensive midfielder role. It hasn't happened because of his injuries, and Doyle has filled the role with a different system. January may see a new plan emerge.

From what I have seen of him, he doesn't carry the ball out of defence well and give it to the wingers or central midfield partners very well at all. He never looks composed on the ball, never hangs onto it and looks up to make that pass. It's always backwards, then he hangs to receive the ball again. Pointless stuff unless you have two players bearing down on you.

pommpey

 

[Bergen Blade]

Wallace, you mean? I think that was the point of the signing. In modern parlance more of a quarter-back role than defensive midfielder role. It hasn't happened because of his injuries, and Doyle has filled the role with a different system. January may see a new plan emerge.

Wallace, Reed and Dimaio are potentially superb holding playmakers. It remains to be seen if their defensive qualities will be good enough independent of who they play alongside, or if it'll be necessary to get exactly the right kind of people next to them, whether in a duo or trio.

Personally I'm a big fan of Scougall and want him to be part of our midfield, but it does look lightweight with him partnered by just Reed or Dimaio. It seems a lot easier to compose the midfield with three central players.