Capacity

[metalblade]

I'm not going to quote any particular poster in this thread, but you should pay more attention to some of the comments on roys veiw from..

Very often you'll see the words "proper football ground" and "a real city centre ground" and words to that effect, these comments come from fans sick to death of soulless bowls and grounds on brown feild sites nowhere near anything of interest.. Or even a pub, let alone a genuine old city centre boozer...

We have the space to improve without moving, I don't ever want to leave the lane.

Don't wish for a "venue" when we have a home..

The trouble being the views of visiting away fans do very little to build Uniteds fan base or put money into the club, everyone likes to visit a museum every once in a while and get all nostalgic. Keep looking where we were in the past and that is where we will stay, you know the club that hasn't won anything for 98 years and counting.

 

[bladesmanluke]

Mate we sold out twice in the premier league the other year, once against man u and the other on boxing day, and I'll add to that we were genuinely chasing a European spot throughout that season. Not sure how we would get thousands more to go, Our crowds are absolutely superb because I don't believe we have that many more fans, so the amount that actually go is a brilliant turnout.

Sold out twice, but were down to single seats and restricted views probably 12-14 times.

Almost every game effectively sold out for home fans if you didn't want to go on your own and stare at the back of a 2 foot wide concrete pillar.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I think we’re pretty much at that point now. We’re never going to “do a Spurs” and expanding/rebuilding the current stands isn’t going to be cheap and won’t satisfy all our needs.

In financial terms, I think moving would probably be the best option.

Financially the best option is to build a new 50K stadium somewhere where's there's great transport links, parking and tram route
and share the building costs with Sheff Wed and the council.

However as mentioned I love having a town centre stadium, surrounded by infrastructure and pubs.

Sold out twice, but were down to single seats and restricted views probably 12-14 times.

Almost every game effectively sold out for home fans if you didn't want to go on your own and stare at the back of a 2 foot wide concrete pillar.

Was going to post something similar, even this season, half our games in the Championship have only had odd seats left, vast majority restricted view.

 

[SwissBlade]

New capacity is just going to be published as “less than Wednesday”

 

[Blademan18891889]

Sold out twice, but were down to single seats and restricted views probably 12-14 times.

Almost every game effectively sold out for home fans if you didn't want to go on your own and stare at the back of a 2 foot wide concrete pillar.

The upper tier had seats available for every single game apart from Liverpool. For what it's worth I agree, I'd rather not go than have to sit behind a pillar or in that corner. I think our support has grown a bit since basing it on this seasons crowds so maybe it will be full every week next season.

 

[S64 Blade]

Put another tier on the South Stand with enhanced corporate provision / executive boxes in between.

Safe standing section on the Kop and improve the overall facilities there (toilets and bars).

Minimise disruption to current crowds, not an huge cost and vastly improves the corporate spend so quicker ROI. Kop improvements maintain and improve the atmosphere. Gets us up to ~36,000 at a push. You’d sell that out every week comfortably if established in the PL.

Agree with this. But I think we need to get the Kop properly done (demolish and start), in the long term. We could do some fairly cheap enhancements in the short term though, I agree!

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Not big enough, the crowd's we get are good considering your average fan can't just walk up and get a ticket. The ground is a closed shop.if you're not a season ticket holder or a member basically your told to fuck off, it needs massive investment especially the kop. Anyone who wants to go to the lane should be able to get in but it doesn't happen. Only my opinion but open it up to the general public and bingo

My lads mates visiting from Uni turned up and got got tickets no problem.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

It’s the local psyche mate (Wednesday fans excluded).

Be overly cautious of relatively small changes. Don’t do anything and then moan about Sheffield being backwards and shit when places that do take more calculated risks are successful.

Like you say, increasing the capacity by 10% when it’s >90% full already in the Championship, isn’t being deluded.

There’s just shy of 2 million people living within a 20 miles radius of Bramall Lane, but it’s impossible for us to grow from 30k crowds…

We were on the brink of going bust 2 weeks back according to threads on here. Now we're spunkin an imaginary new owners cash , by way of new debt.
My ambitions lay in keeping the club financially stable and successful on the pitch.
I run a business and understand sensible investment and organic growth.

 

[metalblade]

My lads mates visiting from Uni turned up and got got tickets no problem.

They probably won't next season

 

[noire]

I know I have stated my feelings in the other thread on this subject. But I do feel it is a lot more of a pressing issue than many would believe.

The Kop is probably one of the worst stands in terms of design and facilities in the entire league. And our troubles with SAG aren’t going to disappear. It should act as a wake up call to the club really. There needs to be a plan for a replacement stand in the next 5…20 years maximum or I feel our hand will be forced.

And stadium infrastructure should be viewed as an investment to generate revenue rather than the view that prevails here that it would be a sunk cost. And as a revenue stream we can and should borrow to fund it (we don’t need to purchase everything in cash!).

A modest increase in capacity would be very beneficial. I don’t know why we are so obsessed in general in this country at every match being sold out. In any case I very much doubt we would ever receive planning permission, even if money was no object, to increase capacity beyond 40,000. Not that I feel we need a ground quite that big in any case.

My great fear, and the most probable outcome is we end up with nothing being done and a Kop they will be half closed with netting and tarpaulins everywhere or even worse.

 

[Stand United]

Did the McCabian kop extension proposal increase number of entrance/exit points (which i thought was the underlying issue with SAG this season)?

The underlying issue was overcrowding on specific rows at the back, caused by migration within the stand (one of the risks related to this being spilling over into stairwells). Looking at the existing Kop extension plans, the extra seating would be built behind the existing gangway exits – there wouldn’t be any equivalent ones at the top of the extension added into the construction for example, so the extra capacity would be using the existing routes to enter/exit the stand. Basically so long as the stand can be cleared in an emergency within 8 minutes it meets what’s required. It does currently of course, despite the bottleneck with the exit at the bottom by the John Street Stand, but adding just under 3k of capacity might challenge that.

 

[Bladesman]

We increased our average gates by at least 4,000 each time we’ve been promoted to the top flight. It’s impossible for us to do this next season.

We’ve just averaged just under 29k in the championship (with the kop closed for match day sales for more than half the season).

Saying we don’t need to think about expanding the ground to capitalise on our success is backwards.

How we fund it, of course, is another matter entirely…

Well if you are a football club in S6 usually the taxpayer stumps up the cash.

Come on fellow citizens of the UK show us the moneh!

 

[originaltrueblade]

The thing is the longer that the lane is left as it is with no improvements then the more likely it will be that it would make sense for a new build away from the current site.

N E V E R!!

 

[Houston_Blade]

We already have a standing area at the back of the Kop


Sheffield is similar to Sunderland. Similar percentage of fans-to-population attend the game. When you consider the pigs attendances, there's 55K attending football in this city


Everton is a prime example of what/where we could be if we were able to sustain top flight status.
Liverpool is a smaller city than Sheffield and Everton are the smaller club, starved of recent success, but still building a 53K stadium.

I realise they were a successful club back in the day, but have done nothing for 30-odd years.
It's top flight football that has maintained a chunk of their fanbase.

The Everton one is completely reliant on sustained premier league status, I just don’t think that happens to us, without a massive shift in leadership mentality and significant investment we’re at best a yo-yo club, at worst a league 1 club and on average a top half Championship club with a shout of promotion most years.

 

[mattbianco1]

The Everton one is completely reliant on sustained premier league status, I just don’t think that happens to us, without a massive shift in leadership mentality and significant investment we’re at best a yo-yo club, at worst a league 1 club and on average a top half Championship club with a shout of promotion most years.

Ye have no faith.

That was then. This is now. I think we'll win title

 

[Houston_Blade]

Ye have no faith.

That was then. This is now. I think we'll win title

The Championship title should definitely be a possibility in one of the bounce back seasons

 

[YES Blade]

The Everton one is completely reliant on sustained premier league status, I just don’t think that happens to us, without a massive shift in leadership mentality and significant investment we’re at best a yo-yo club, at worst a league 1 club and on average a top half Championship club with a shout of promotion most years.

Even if we spend the next 10 years in the Premier League, there will always be that risk that the next season will end in relegation.

So what do we do? Never invest in stadium improvements because we could end up being relegated? There will come a point where we’ve got to invest significantly in the stadium or the Lane will end up in a state like Hillsborough.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Even if we spend the next 10 years in the Premier League, there will always be that risk that the next season will end in relegation.

So what do we do? Never invest in stadium improvements because we could end up being relegated? There will come a point where we’ve got to invest significantly in the stadium or the Lane will end up in a state like Hillsborough.

I definitely wouldn’t do it for the next couple of seasons unless we get a new owner with shitloads of cash who doesn’t mind writing it off to make some improvements.

We need to get back on an even keel for a couple of seasons, if we’re still in the PL after that then kick on.

Like I’ve said all along, I’m not averse to improving the ground, it just needs to be done carefully and without leading to a glut of empty seats. 35k feels about right, but with upgraded facilities on all 4 sides of the ground along with that.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

Like you say, increasing the capacity by 10% when it’s >90% full already in the Championship, isn’t being deluded.

Just worked it out, over 95% full in the Championship yet we still have some say we don’t need more seats.

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

I welcome change and improvement, I just don’t think we’re ever going to be a PL club long enough to sustain crowds bigger than 32k.

.

Small time mentality like that results in a small time club. Let’s hope the new owner has a bit more ambition about him.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Small time mentality like that results in a small time club. Let’s hope the new owner has a bit more ambition about him.

I agree, but it’s not my mentality that causes the issue, it’s the mentality of the club at present.

I think how I think because I see the actions of the club historically and it doesn’t give me a reason to think anything will change.

A new owner with some brass and some bollocks would be a game changer for us.

 

[jt64]

Regardless of projections of whether we would sell more tickets if we expanded (which I think we would, you only had to look at the number of people who had a bit of a cry when they didn't renew their season tickets, you could quite easily sell another 10-15% no problem if we had the space to do so and still have much the same people walking up), the fact is that the Kop was not fit for purpose 20 years ago and is an embarrassment of a stand in 2023. It needs rebuilding from scratch - obviously the money for that would have to come from somewhere and that's a massive question mark, and you would have temporary issues re: accommodating those currently in the Kop during such a rebuild, but if you were to do so then why wouldn't you rebuild it larger at the same time?

At the very least there needs to be some sort of consultation with fans about priorities for PL money the next season we get some after 23/24, and timings/costs of redevelopment projected

 

[FATTYFOULKE]

We were on the brink of going bust 2 weeks back according to threads on here. Now we're spunkin an imaginary new owners cash , by way of new debt.
My ambitions lay in keeping the club financially stable and successful on the pitch.
I run a business and understand sensible investment and organic growth.

Your paper round’s got nothing to do with this.

 

[JayGreen17]

Precisely. The amount of fans from other clubs that have moved on that would look at this thread and laugh at our fans naivety and backwardness speaks for itself. A look at the top two divisions tells it's own story. The first Sheffield club that makes these improvements will steal a big march on the other. I hope it's us.

Absolutely this, I live in Manchester and the attitude of Mancunians to Sheffielders is polar opposite, Manchester see the positive in growth while Sheffield is always looking inward, it’s totally bizarre why we have such a down beat attitude, we need to grow , growth will bring in extra revenue, sorting out the Kop and South stand to release the BLUT to away fans would enable us to achieve this, and also push us to stealing a march not just in Sheff but Yorkshire.

 

[YES Blade]

I definitely wouldn’t do it for the next couple of seasons unless we get a new owner with shitloads of cash who doesn’t mind writing it off to make some improvements.

We need to get back on an even keel for a couple of seasons, if we’re still in the PL after that then kick on.

Like I’ve said all along, I’m not averse to improving the ground, it just needs to be done carefully and without leading to a glut of empty seats. 35k feels about right, but with upgraded facilities on all 4 sides of the ground along with that.

Will we ever get on an even keel? Let’s not forget that our financial issues are the result of two years in the Premier League. Generally speaking, with football clubs it’s a case of a greater income = greater losses.

I know it’s not my money so it’s easy to say, but I have a “fuck it” attitude. Get a massive mortgage and just build it! What’s the worst that can happen? Clubs our size don’t go bust, worst case we’d end up in League One/Two and we’ve been there before without spending money on the stadium.

 

[Houston_Blade]

Will we ever get on an even keel? Let’s not forget that our financial issues are the result of two years in the Premier League. Generally speaking, with football clubs it’s a case of a greater income = greater losses.

I know it’s not my money so it’s easy to say, but I have a “fuck it” attitude. Get a massive mortgage and just build it! What’s the worst that can happen? Clubs our size don’t go bust, worst case we’d end up in League One/Two and we’ve been there before without spending money on the stadium.

If we’re going to spunk money I’d rather spend it on amazing players

 

[BornOnShorehamStreet]

Depends on the new owner and we do have potential Burnley pop 80,000 Sunderland 277,000 so half the populations certainly don’t go to football. Sheffield just over 600,000 catchment area 1.3 million…huge potential and now the premier League is more famous than ever.
Expand the Lane when we are financially secure not before and no never move from the Church

Interesting stat site showing Burnley's average attendances. I would imagine all seater stadium has caused the lower capacity they get now. Surprised me

England historical attendance and performance

 

[metalblade]

We are like YES Blade says at the tipping point, if we don't increase capacity and revenue streams soon then we never will unless we build behind the present kop then at some point we will have to close it meaning we lose 10,000+ seats you can't just say fuck off for a year to around 8000 season ticket holders. Another McCabe style sticking plaster approach will not do we will have to rebuild it in stages put a new cantilever roof on then some proper corners with seats which are not restricted view then rebuild the rest section by section without closing the whole kop for a season. The other alternative is start with a blank canvas somewhere out of the city centre where land is cheaper, the sale of the present site would help to finance it. If the club sits on it's arse and doesn't improve the lane soon a move away will be inevitable, or we settle for league one and the championship losing the likes of Ndiaye and never again winning a trophy the McCabe way of running the club. At least even he recognised the need to increase the ground capacity even if his corner bits were very cheap fixes and eyesores.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Agree with this. But I think we need to get the Kop properly done (demolish and start), in the long term. We could do some fairly cheap enhancements in the short term though, I agree!

Surely it makes zero business sense to choose the more expensive option, spend 100’s of millions to reduce capacity. No competent owner would agree it.

To make the Kop steeper means a lower capacity, unless it’s done double or triple tier at greater cost.

Also it’s financial suicide to reduce capacity down to 20K for 2 years, effectively banning some season ticket holders from attending matches for 2 years.

Or we could have a fairer system where every season ticket takes their turn missing matches. The risk is if you fail to attend home games you find other things to do and lose the habit of going.

Normally whole stands are built because there’s so much extra space you can use under the stand but why would United need extra space under the Kop, there’s hardly any parking and we have plenty of facilities in the South stand and John Street.

 

[Selly]

Clubs our size don’t go bust, worst case we’d end up in League One/Two and we’ve been there before without spending money on the stadium.

Our only trip into what is now League 2 came but 5 (?) years after we built the South Stand.

Correlation? Causation? I know which one my money is on.