Bring back reserve team football?

[Tony_Kaufman]

Does anyone know why this stopped? For me I always felt that reserve team football could be a useful tool.

You go through pre-season building up your players fitness until they're ready to play 90 minutes, whilst getting back into the habit of playing again. All of a sudden the season starts. There's a bit of jockeying around until the players are back up to speed again then, if you don't pick up injuries and suspensions, you largely use the same players over and over.

Other than cup games and coming on as subs, the remainder see very little match action and all they get is training ground practise. By the time they do get a chance to start they're rusty and not as fit due to lack of practise as only a couple can play with the development team, as is my understanding.

At least with reserve team football it gave everyone a chance to play throughout the season. If you were injured you could play some reserve football until you're entirely ready for the first team, instead of rushing back in. You have a striker who hasn't scored for 5 games, drop them to the reserves so they might score a few and build up confidence. If you have a player doing okay but nothing exceptional, their position might come under threat from someone playing their position in the reserves who's form is red hot. Now you have real competition for places.

Warnock used to use it as discipline. Even Morgan was often dropped to the reserves due to making errors or getting sent off. He'd come back better for it.

Maybe this is why we have the Sanchos and Lingards now, because they can safely pick up a wage doing nothing with no incentive to play football.

Could teams organise closed door friendlies throughout the season for this purpose, or do the FA block this? If not, couldn't teams arrange this regionally? For example Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley, Doncaster Rovers and Rotherham all putting out reserve teams against each other throughout a season to keep fringe players match fit and sharp, and to help injured players return and encourge competition for places. With it being behind closed doors you wouldn't need stewards etc, just match officials and cost of hosting it. The result wouldn't matter as much so local rivalries wouldn't really come into it as much.

 

[Digs blade]

Think you’re essentially describing the u21’s these days although I did used to enjoy a good reserve game

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

But what about all the players over 21? There's nothing for them. From my understanding isn't it something like 3 players over that age can play in the development team in a match?

 

[varkanoid]

We haven't got enough players for the first 11 so no way can we have a reserve team

 

[Revolution]

Jon Parkin said on Undr The Cosh recently that he thought reserve team football was a terrific preparation for a young player for the first team because you got to play against stronger players, many of whom had a lot of first team experience, and the current set up is not the same.

It's particularly bad for us as the lack of category 1 status means we are often shooting fish in a barrel against teams with much worse youth systems.

 

[Gaini Blade]

We are already delivering reserve team quality football - what more do you want?!

 

[BiggerBladeThanThou]

But what about all the players over 21? There's nothing for them. From my understanding isn't it something like 3 players over that age can play in the development team in a match?

Think they can still play randomly.

 

[S64 Blade]

It does seem strange it was taken away. Having a relatively competitive game would surely be good for those not playing often and for bleeding in youngsters into a more competitive, adult environment.

 

[Tezza1889]

They have organised matches behind closed doors very often, usually nobody ever gets to hear about them.

It's for match fitness or seeing a trialist in a game, mutually beneficial excersise..

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

They have organised matches behind closed doors very often, usually nobody ever gets to hear about them.

It's for match fitness or seeing a trialist in a game, mutually beneficial excersise..

Yeah surely they do, no way Brewster hadn't played any minutes before being in the FT squad etc.

 

[Tezza1889]

Yeah surely they do, no way Brewster hadn't played any minutes before being in the FT squad etc.

Not 100% but we played one against Burnley or Everton when Brewster needed some some minutes.. I'm sure a closed doors game was mentioned in one of PH interviews..

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Not 100% but we played one against Burnley or Everton when Brewster needed some some minutes.. I'm sure a closed doors game was mentioned in one of PH interviews..

And the mystery one in pre season after Stuttgart

 

[Ralph Blade]

Used to enjoy a Central League game in the 70’s. It was a good way to see some decent players if you were not in the top division. I seem to remember that the matches got moved firstly away from a Saturday afternoon to more night matches which is potentially less attractive, then there was a move away from playing at the ‘proper’ stadium so as to preserve the pitch, which once again would put people off going (look at the difference in attendances in the WSL when they play at the proper ground) and I guess from there it fizzled out or morphed into something that the clubs who shouted loudest preferred.

Even first team cup football is seriously undervalued until a team get a sniff of Wembley so I guess behind closed door matches make some sense. I’m not convinced that initiatives such as allowing Premiership U-21’s into the EFL trophy are that good an idea, the score lines seem to reflect that a significant number of games are mismatches.

 

[Gavlar]

Under 23s is reserve team.

 

[CambridgeshireBlade]

Used to enjoy a Central League game in the 70’s. It was a good way to see some decent players if you were not in the top division. I seem to remember that the matches got moved firstly away from a Saturday afternoon to more night matches which is potentially less attractive, then there was a move away from playing at the ‘proper’ stadium so as to preserve the pitch, which once again would put people off going (look at the difference in attendances in the WSL when they play at the proper ground) and I guess from there it fizzled out or morphed into something that the clubs who shouted loudest preferred.

Even first team cup football is seriously undervalued until a team get a sniff of Wembley so I guess behind closed door matches make some sense. I’m not convinced that initiatives such as allowing Premiership U-21’s into the EFL trophy are that good an idea, the score lines seem to reflect that a significant number of games are mismatches.

Mismatch in favour of the pros or the u21s?

 

[GreasyChipBeattie]

Back in the day we were only allowed 2 subs, where now the bench is full of what would be half the reserve team.
Personally I'd prefer 2 subs and a reserve league/local games for all the benefits you've mentioned.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

Times have changed, generally for the better. But there was something positive about the rhythms of football when matches were played on a Saturday afternoon, and the only way of knowing what was going on elsewhere was via the scoreboard (half-time and full-time scores, with updates every 15 minutes at the Reserve games of how the first team were getting on). Crowds concentrated much more on the game they were watching than seems to be the case in the era of the mobile phone.

 

[John Street West Terrace]

Does anyone know why this stopped? For me I always felt that reserve team football could be a useful tool.

You go through pre-season building up your players fitness until they're ready to play 90 minutes, whilst getting back into the habit of playing again. All of a sudden the season starts. There's a bit of jockeying around until the players are back up to speed again then, if you don't pick up injuries and suspensions, you largely use the same players over and over.

Other than cup games and coming on as subs, the remainder see very little match action and all they get is training ground practise. By the time they do get a chance to start they're rusty and not as fit due to lack of practise as only a couple can play with the development team, as is my understanding.

At least with reserve team football it gave everyone a chance to play throughout the season. If you were injured you could play some reserve football until you're entirely ready for the first team, instead of rushing back in. You have a striker who hasn't scored for 5 games, drop them to the reserves so they might score a few and build up confidence. If you have a player doing okay but nothing exceptional, their position might come under threat from someone playing their position in the reserves who's form is red hot. Now you have real competition for places.

Warnock used to use it as discipline. Even Morgan was often dropped to the reserves due to making errors or getting sent off. He'd come back better for it.

Maybe this is why we have the Sanchos and Lingards now, because they can safely pick up a wage doing nothing with no incentive to play football.

Could teams organise closed door friendlies throughout the season for this purpose, or do the FA block this? If not, couldn't teams arrange this regionally? For example Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley, Doncaster Rovers and Rotherham all putting out reserve teams against each other throughout a season to keep fringe players match fit and sharp, and to help injured players return and encourge competition for places. With it being behind closed doors you wouldn't need stewards etc, just match officials and cost of hosting it. The result wouldn't matter as much so local rivalries wouldn't really come into it as much.

We’ve being saying this TK , the old central league was a lot more competitive & the step up from the Northern Intermediate League meant youngsters came up against seasoned pros & bridged the gap better to first team football , particularly on the physical side of the game .

 

[Ralph Blade]

Mismatch in favour of the pros or the u21s?

Both. There have been some large margin wins by the League One and Two teams, while on the other hand some of the Premier League sides have made notable progress in the competition. As it is really a vehicle for League One and League Two teams to get an opportunity to play at Wembley, it does not seem right that a Premier League team in whatever guise should be able to get there instead (not that this has happened so far)

 

[Carlton Blade]

Nothing in reserve

A few years ago reserve games contained a smattering of stars and small clubs could mix it with the internationals, pulling in decent crowds. But rule

www.wsc.co.uk

 

[Bladesince59]

Good old Central League and Northern Intermediate League.

 

[Swinton Blade]

But what about all the players over 21? There's nothing for them. From my understanding isn't it something like 3 players over that age can play in the development team in a match?

You can have one Goalkeeper over 21 and upto 4 outfield players over 21.

 

[Yoonited]

Does anyone know why this stopped? For me I always felt that reserve team football could be a useful tool.

You go through pre-season building up your players fitness until they're ready to play 90 minutes, whilst getting back into the habit of playing again. All of a sudden the season starts. There's a bit of jockeying around until the players are back up to speed again then, if you don't pick up injuries and suspensions, you largely use the same players over and over.

Other than cup games and coming on as subs, the remainder see very little match action and all they get is training ground practise. By the time they do get a chance to start they're rusty and not as fit due to lack of practise as only a couple can play with the development team, as is my understanding.

At least with reserve team football it gave everyone a chance to play throughout the season. If you were injured you could play some reserve football until you're entirely ready for the first team, instead of rushing back in. You have a striker who hasn't scored for 5 games, drop them to the reserves so they might score a few and build up confidence. If you have a player doing okay but nothing exceptional, their position might come under threat from someone playing their position in the reserves who's form is red hot. Now you have real competition for places.

Warnock used to use it as discipline. Even Morgan was often dropped to the reserves due to making errors or getting sent off. He'd come back better for it.

Maybe this is why we have the Sanchos and Lingards now, because they can safely pick up a wage doing nothing with no incentive to play football.

Could teams organise closed door friendlies throughout the season for this purpose, or do the FA block this? If not, couldn't teams arrange this regionally? For example Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley, Doncaster Rovers and Rotherham all putting out reserve teams against each other throughout a season to keep fringe players match fit and sharp, and to help injured players return and encourge competition for places. With it being behind closed doors you wouldn't need stewards etc, just match officials and cost of hosting it. The result wouldn't matter as much so local rivalries wouldn't really come into it as much.

The "Useful tool" was thrown away and replaced by useless tools with pockets to fill.
I agree,could be making a difference to our season now.
I wonder if more game time in arguably reduced pressure matches would keep players fitter and less prone to injury

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

The "Useful tool" was thrown away and replaced by useless tools with pockets to fill.
I agree,could be making a difference to our season now.
I wonder if more game time in arguably reduced pressure matches would keep players fitter and less prone to injury

That was my thought. If you haven't played with match intensity for weeks or months other than a 10/15 appearance from the bench here and there, then it will take it's toll on your body and you'll become more injury prone. I hadn't run for a year and naively went for a 5k run. Because my body wasn't used to the impact and demands I ended up injuring my calf muscles. Granted professional athletes won't be as stupid as I was, but I'm sure you get my point.

I often wonder how much the lack of regular football has on players. It's not the same for top teams as they regularly rotate the squads for the league and Europe. Teams like us and the remainder of the Premier League and Football League don't have that luxury. I'm not saying this is entirely the cause of our injuries as the majority of Premier League, Championship, League One and League Two teams don't even get 25% of the injuries that we've seen over the last three seasons, so clearly something else is taking it's toll in our case, but I'm sure it plays it's part.

 

[Yoonited]

That was my thought. If you haven't played with match intensity for weeks or months other than a 10/15 appearance from the bench here and there, then it will take it's toll on your body and you'll become more injury prone. I hadn't run for a year and naively went for a 5k run. Because my body wasn't used to the impact and demands I ended up injuring my calf muscles. Granted professional athletes won't be as stupid as I was, but I'm sure you get my point.

I often wonder how much the lack of regular football has on players. It's not the same for top teams as they regularly rotate the squads for the league and Europe. Teams like us and the remainder of the Premier League and Football League don't have that luxury. I'm not saying this is entirely the cause of our injuries as the majority of Premier League, Championship, League One and League Two teams don't even get 25% of the injuries that we've seen over the last three seasons, so clearly something else is taking it's toll in our case, but I'm sure it plays it's part.

You could probably include the muscle memory theory too,including that of the brain where consistent habits in familiar circumstances and utilising the 4 stages of competence model.
The injuries factor for us seems beyond bad luck.
Still more qustions than answers.

 

[CambridgeshireBlade]

That was my thought. If you haven't played with match intensity for weeks or months other than a 10/15 appearance from the bench here and there, then it will take it's toll on your body and you'll become more injury prone. I hadn't run for a year and naively went for a 5k run. Because my body wasn't used to the impact and demands I ended up injuring my calf muscles. Granted professional athletes won't be as stupid as I was, but I'm sure you get my point.

I often wonder how much the lack of regular football has on players. It's not the same for top teams as they regularly rotate the squads for the league and Europe. Teams like us and the remainder of the Premier League and Football League don't have that luxury. I'm not saying this is entirely the cause of our injuries as the majority of Premier League, Championship, League One and League Two teams don't even get 25% of the injuries that we've seen over the last three seasons, so clearly something else is taking it's toll in our case, but I'm sure it plays it's part.

I think our injury rate may be partly attributed to "I'm on Premier league wages, I could play in a match where we get drubbed or I could be fat and happy getting a rub down (nothing blue)"

 

[fifty shades of blade]

Used to go to the central league games at bramall lane, late 80s with my grandad. Remember it was always in the evening, usually fcking cold, but loved it.

 

[biggiesablade]

Bring back borstal while we at it and national service

 

[Ball_Sup (Phil)]

The Central League still exists of course.

There may be more. But, I know of two Cat 1 Academies (the level above us) who field teams in BOTH the Premier League 2 U21 AND The Central League.

Those two (I know of) being Derby County and Sunderland. Although it is the case that The Central League is normally billed as U21 these days rather than Reserves.

 

[toledo]

When I was on a schoolboy contract at SUFC in the late 60's, there was a definite progression plan for young players and for new players depending on age:

Hatchard Leage
U18/U21
Reserve team
FIrst Team

I know things change but this was a rock solid progression plan no matter your skill set.

I remember when Tom McAllister was signed as an example: I was a goalkeeper working between the Hatchard League and the U18's, Tom was signed on a Friday and he took my place in goal the next day in our Hatchard League game...Shortly afterwards he was in goal in a U18 game v MUFC and I was center forward.

From there, he went upwards, and I went downwards...

toledo