Brentford and 'passing football'

[OllyBlade]

Brentford are often cited as one of the league's best 'passing' sides but what struck me yesterday as how they went about doing this against us. Many of their attacks started with a simple ball down the wing to Donaldson, who just held it up and brought others into play. But because he held it up so well they were instantly in an attacking area with us on the back foot.
For me, Taylor played the lone front man role miserably yesterday. He stayed too central all the time, and never seemed to be pulling wide to receive clearances or stretch the opposition. Murphy was completely anonymous, only a few times popping up to receive the ball in the middle. That Brandy was our most physical attacker tells you all you need to know. We are soft, and worse teams than Brentford will collect points against us. As opposed to last year, when I felt Brentford did play some of their best football to beat us, this year I didn't feel they even particularly had to try. 'Passing' football may be what to aspire to, but without effective strategies as to how to put it to use, it won't get us very far.

 

[sheffielder]

I think everyone needs to calm down a little (pot and kettle I know) but this was never going to be easy. Weir needs to work out the players he can and can't trust and will naturally change things round until he is happy. Results yesterday will happen on the way and we can't just chuck the players and manager under the bus everytime it does. Last week was the good, this week was the bad however everyone involved will have learnt something more yesterday than last week. We are a mobile nippy striker short if McDonald stays and obviously a couple short if he goes.

I don't agree in Doyle being our captain because results like yesterday happen to often. we have a soft middle and no real leaders in the team so Weir is going to have to provide the steel himself with his management

 

[alcoblade]

If many of our fans obsession with "passing football" rubs off on the hierarchy we could have a lengthy third division spell.

We passed 4th division Burton to death. I woke up when they popped the winner in.

We should play they style suited to the players we have. Passing V hoof is the most over simplified load of bollocks that continually does the rounds on this forum, as though there's 2 different games with nothing in between.

UTB

 

[Pittsburg Blade]

I know that highlights aren't always representative of a game, but it showed an awful lot of shambolic defending on our part. Was littered with basic schoolboy errors. The whole team looked completely and scarily unaware of what was happening around them.

 

[blade too long]

passing is fine but getting it forward is the key , cant score with the ball in your own half , brentfords had a year longer to get it right , be us in 12 months , hopefully having scored the last minute penalty

 

[Wards]

Patience will be key I think. We were never going to be a refined passing outfit from the word go. Lets give it time to gell and hopefully DW will have moved out and brought in players he thinks are suited to the style he wants to play.

We're still 4 or 5 players short in my opinion.

 

[SwissBlade]

If many of our fans obsession with "passing football" rubs off on the hierarchy we could have a lengthy third division spell.

We passed 4th division Burton to death. I woke up when they popped the winner in.

We should play they style suited to the players we have. Passing V hoof is the most over simplified load of bollocks that continually does the rounds on this forum, as though there's 2 different games with nothing in between.

UTB

Sums up exactly what I've been saying for a long time.

One thing is to keep possession and control the game, but it sounds like we're not doing that. You can take the tempo out of a game by holding onto the ball. But... You also need to know how to attack and defend. And if attacking by passing doesn't work because you're too slow and predictable then you need to adapt your game.

Personally I find it more painful that when we lose possession we don't know how to regroup. Good sides lose the ball and then get. The numbers behind the ball to nullify attacks.

Blackwell was criticised heavily for his negative tactics, but his sides were well organised when they didn't have possession. Wilson managed to get us well organised at the start of last season but couldn't then produce an attacking side which worked hard out of possession.

I'm hoping that weir, by bringing in the assistant manager - fitness will get us extremely well drilled and fit, so that when were out of possession were tough to break down. Listening to the match on Saturday they broke through us too easily. It'll take time to fix things

 

[Foxy]

Personally I find it more painful that when we lose possession we don't know how to regroup. Good sides lose the ball and then get. The numbers behind the ball to nullify attacks.
I'm hoping that weir, by bringing in the assistant manager - fitness will get us extremely well drilled and fit, so that when were out of possession were tough to break down. Listening to the match on Saturday they broke through us too easily. It'll take time to fix things

One of the first thing Carsley mentioned to us, was their intention to effectively close down the pitch when not in possession. They seemed to be basing it on the way they played at Everton and ensuring that when we did lose the ball, the opposition had nowhere to go and it was therefore soon won back.

It wasn't there on Saturday, but we're the second league game in.

 

[OllyBlade]

We should play they style suited to the players we have. Passing V hoof is the most over simplified load of bollocks that continually does the rounds on this forum, as though there's 2 different games with nothing in between.

UTB

Yes, and this is the kind of point I was trying to make about Donaldson's role for Brentford - he knew where to position himself so that they could pop what might otherwise be aimless balls down the wing and then play constructive football from there. I think McDonald was important for our team as the player to look for, someone who could be trusted to keep the ball under pressure. Will be interesting to see how we adapt to his departure.

And as someone else has pointed out, there is no accounting for individual errors. After we equalised, we were on the front foot, and if McGinn hadn't served up the golden opportunity for them to score it could have been a different second half. Brentford, once given the lead again, were very good at controlling things and we looked like we'd given up.

 

[yorkshirecoast]

If many of our fans obsession with "passing football" rubs off on the hierarchy we could have a lengthy third division spell.

We passed 4th division Burton to death. I woke up when they popped the winner in.

We should play they style suited to the players we have. Passing V hoof is the most over simplified load of bollocks that continually does the rounds on this forum, as though there's 2 different games with nothing in between.

UTB

Agree with this. 4th division Burton were more than happy to let us pass it around because they could see it was getting us nowhere. Possession is important but we need to mix it up - pace, power, running at defenders, getting crosses in and shots on goal - not passing it for the sake of it. And the defence need to concentrate on defending properly - not making suicidal passes along the back line when opposition players are closing us down. Unfortunately I'm not sure we have the players to play the quality of football needed. Time will tell.

 

[Deadbat]

Worryingly it seems Brentford and Burton did their homework but each found different ways to negate us. Burton sat back and let us pass around but sat deep knowing we had no real idea how to break them down in the last third and inevitably we would give it away.

I was not at Griffin Park but two of the goals prove they were effective in their tactics. Brentford as Rosler/Forshaw alluded to on their official site pressed us and turned the ball over realising we don't have players that are technically good enough. Teams like them can use superior fitness/youth/athleticism and sadly can then win it in our half and create chances very quickly if they win it off us in the last third.

Not sure we have the players to bring it out/pass it around and play that way. Weir's blueprint may be a forward thinking one and better than aimless kicks out of defence but with this 'transition' and our finances he will only have players like Williams/Westlake or equivalent at his disposal and not sure how he can make players like this (or ones he bring in which would be cheap) into Bobby Moore types! His style relies on quality ball playing defenders and midfielders and whilst it worked v Notts County it was against 10 men and they did not have strikers who could press (as only had 1 up top and probably one of the poorest midfields we will face (lost 3 main midfielders in Judge, Hughes and Bishop).

As I say way too early to judge but Rosler worked out how to create umpteen chances versus us on Saturday and many others will probably do the same. I think it will be better at home though as teams wont press as much. Thus our home record may be better than last season. Away though we may need to change our approach and be more solid rather than trying to play our way out.

 

[wardonia_blade]

When we dropped out of the prem the one lesson we had learned was that we had to be able to keep the ball when necessary. By the end of Feb we needed 8 more points but were too knackered to get them having chased and harried for 7 months. If you have the ball you have the option of long ball, short ball, whatever.

 

[JohnDenver]

We should play they style suited to the players we have.

Hmm... But equally we should buy and develop players suited to the club's consistent and universally understood methods. Pragmatism is fine but shouldn't be an excuse for an absence of strategy, as it has been for years. That's why we're in the third tier now.

There is a balance to be struck in the short term as new players join, but the worse sin to commit in our current situation would be to lose sight of where we're going.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Yes Brentford can pass the ball but they have a bit of everything and better players in most positions. They have an owner who is investing in them to get out of the division and a decent manager in Rosler.

Forshaw and McAleny absolutely ripped us apart when they ran at the heart of our midfield and defence - we just weren't quick enough or able to close them down. Shaleum Logan also has extreme pace and was willing to run with the ball to our defensive third of the pitch.

We have no one with the clever movement of Grigg up front or the strength and nous of Donaldson.

It's the first time I've seen Taylor and unfortunately he was abysmal.

Neither of our full backs are competent defenders or competent crossers of the ball when we get forward (rare as it was yesterday). McGinn may well be bearing some of Doyle's previous workload but Doyle was poor again yesterday in my opinion and McGinn gifted them the second goal. After that I feared it was going to be 6 or 7 and on another day it could well have been.

Apart from the goal, I can only remember Taylor blazing one over the bar in the first half and a Coady effort easily saved.

We were very, very poor yesterday

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Doesn't matter what our style of play is. Our players simply aren't good enough.

 

[bartman]

Yes Brentford can pass the ball but they have a bit of everything and better players in most positions. They have an owner who is investing in them to get out of the division and a decent manager in Rosler.

Forshaw and McAleny absolutely ripped us apart when they ran at the heart of our midfield and defence - we just weren't quick enough or able to close them down. Shaleum Logan also has extreme pace and was willing to run with the ball to our defensive third of the pitch.

We have no one with the clever movement of Grigg up front or the strength and nous of Donaldson.

It's the first time I've seen Taylor and unfortunately he was abysmal.

Neither of our full backs are competent defenders or competent crossers of the ball when we get forward (rare as it was yesterday). McGinn may well be bearing some of Doyle's previous workload but Doyle was poor again yesterday in my opinion and McGinn gifted them the second goal. After that I feared it was going to be 6 or 7 and on another day it could well have been.

Apart from the goal, I can only remember Taylor blazing one over the bar in the first half and a Coady effort easily saved.

We were very, very poor yesterday

Except for Long I thought they were all poor.

The one thing Wilson got right last season was clean sheets. Unfortunately we have 2 poor full backs who have trouble defending(their primary role) ,weak in the tackle and positionally poor.

Hopefully McMahon will be fit soon and Weir will put Hill to left back. Start with a solid base then let the other 6 outfield players create.

 

[UnitedBlade]

Except for Long I thought they were all poor.

The one thing Wilson got right last season was clean sheets. Unfortunately we have 2 poor full backs who have trouble defending(their primary role) ,weak in the tackle and positionally poor.

Hopefully McMahon will be fit soon and Weir will put Hill to left back. Start with a solid base then let the other 6 outfield players create.

Agree George had a good game and agree I would start the changes at full back.

I can't see Westlake improving as a defender and he doesn't compensate by being particularly good at crossing. The sooner McMahon is back the better but he wasn't on the bench yesterday so perhaps his return isn't imminent.

Possibly Hill at left back, I suspect he can't adapt to what Weir wants in passing. Maybe Callum if we (the fans) accept he will make some mistakes at times. I would make Kennedy McMahon's deputy for right back.

There are issues elsewhere of course: up front I'm not sure where the goals will come from.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Gerrit fo'ward.

 

[alcoblade]

Hmm... But equally we should buy and develop players suited to the club's consistent and universally understood methods. Pragmatism is fine but shouldn't be an excuse for an absence of strategy, as it has been for years. That's why we're in the third tier now.

There is a balance to be struck in the short term as new players join, but the worse sin to commit in our current situation would be to lose sight of where we're going.

Yes, but some have it that we need to stroke it around like Swansea, or not bother at all. One things for sure, if we don't get into the box, we wont score, we wont win games, we wont get promoted, and we'll be left skint with players like Porter and a few fans left insisting he leads the line well, even though he can't hit a bulls ass with a banjo.

We are so scarred by years of being at an extreme, many seem to want us to place ourselves at the other. It's just not necessary.

UTB

 

[Kenilworth]

Only Long, Collins and Brandy were fit to wear the shirt yesterday.
Rest are garbage.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

7 years ago next week we had Liverpool on the ropes at Bramall Lane and were temporarily top of the Premier League (albeit by default).

Now we're marooned in the third division and being taught a footballing lesson by Brentford.

 

[SwissBlade]

One of the first thing Carsley mentioned to us, was their intention to effectively close down the pitch when not in possession. They seemed to be basing it on the way they played at Everton and ensuring that when we did lose the ball, the opposition had nowhere to go and it was therefore soon won back.

It wasn't there on Saturday, but we're the second league game in.

It'll take time. Fitness is an absolutely essential part of this, but it sounded very much like we were unorganised on sat( based on commentary). Would you agree?

I also got the impression we were trying to overplay in areas where we didn't need to and brentford were allowing us to play in front of them.

 

[Bladesway]

So it took teams a full season to suss out DW Mk I but DW Mk II has been sussed in 2 games? Sort yourselves out, its early days and anyone who honestly thought we would be challenging for top spot this season is deluding themselves.

 

[Bladesway]

7 years ago next week we had Liverpool on the ropes at Bramall Lane and were temporarily top of the Premier League (albeit by default).

Now we're marooned in the third division and being taught a footballing lesson by Brentford.

Well, when your owner keeps selling the family silver but expecting the same results, then sacking managers at the worst possible times what did you expect to be the outcome?

 

[Pinchy]

Amazing. Truly amazing. We put up with mind-numbing, aimless, ugly hoof for decades. Yet suffer one defeat and all thoughts of playing the game properly (the way all successful teams play and what all professionals call the 'right way') disappear in a mindless panic spread by sinister Hoofwaffe propaganda.

Shameful. Absolutely shameful.

Keep playing football, Davey. We're not all as prehistoric as you might think. Happily, I'm sure you don't read of any of this rubbish, anyway.

Gerritintbox.

 

[Kenilworth]

We don't have the players to play football against men size teams.
We don't have cloggers to bash their way out of this division either.
The quality of the playing staff is woeful.
What you are wishing for is admirable but way off attainable in this environment - especially when the rug keeps being pulled for whatever reason - selling to pay the wage bill or players wanting away as they see no future here.

Just cos we all think we are garbage doesn't mean that we want the style to be overly direct.
Equally though, I'll bet there are plenty of people that want a fast paced, incisive passing game but just can't see how this can be achieved with the existing set-up.

 

[PeterNdlovu081]

Amazing. Truly amazing. We put up with mind-numbing, aimless, ugly hoof for decades. Yet suffer one defeat and all thoughts of playing the game properly (the way all successful teams play and what all professionals call the 'right way') disappear in a mindless panic spread by sinister Hoofwaffe propaganda.

Shameful. Absolutely shameful.

Keep playing football, Davey. We're not all as prehistoric as you might think. Happily, I'm sure you don't read of any of this rubbish, anyway.

Gerritintbox.

You've completely missed the point again.

Who exactly is wanting us to play hoofball anyway?

 

[OllyBlade]

Amazing. Truly amazing. We put up with mind-numbing, aimless, ugly hoof for decades. Yet suffer one defeat and all thoughts of playing the game properly (the way all successful teams play and what all professionals call the 'right way') disappear in a mindless panic spread by sinister Hoofwaffe propaganda.

Shameful. Absolutely shameful.

Keep playing football, Davey. We're not all as prehistoric as you might think. Happily, I'm sure you don't read of any of this rubbish, anyway.

Gerritintbox.

Okay, I don't think that was my point though. My point was that Brentford (a team who many cite as playing the 'right way' in this division) had more than one way to construct an attack, and had players who used the pitch intelligently to help make the 'right way' possible. We had Taylor running around up front like one of the Jurassic park monsters you allude to I would hope David Weir and the coaching staff can instruct the players in how to react to the kind of pressure and pressing the Bees put us under without resorting to aimless hoof.

 

[JJ Sefton]

“It’s no use fiddling about with the ball in midfield in a Cup tie. Take the quickest route to goal and have a pot”

- Ernest 'Nudger' Needham, the most successful captain in Sheffield United's history.

END OF THREAD

 

[Sirius]

“It’s no use fiddling about with the ball in midfield in a Cup tie. Take the quickest route to goal and have a pot”

- Ernest 'Nudger' Needham, the most successful captain in Sheffield United's history.

END OF THREAD

If old Nudger were playing today, he would need a ladder to get as high as the ball, or watch it sail right over his head