Bournmouth / Brentford

[jalfie69]

How do they do it, tiny income from fans, sell the best players every year & lose managers to bigger clubs but still manage to stay in the premier league.

Results so far today, Bournemouth currently leading at Newcastle after selling their best player to City & Brentford leading 0:2 at the biggest club in the world.

 

[mattbianco1]

How do they do it, tiny income from fans, sell the best players every year & lose managers to bigger clubs but still manage to stay in the premier league.

Results so far today, Bournemouth currently leading at Newcastle after selling their best player to City & Brentford leading 0:2 at the biggest club in the world.

Do you understand how much money there is in the Premier League ?

Brentford are in their 5th straight season there.

Bournemouth are in their 9th season out of 11 there.

Crowds mean nothing in the PL

 

[jalfie69]

Do you understand how much money there is in the Premier League ?

I do but the likes of us Burnley, Norwich etc can't manage it.

 

[mattbianco1]

I do but the likes of us Burnley, Norwich etc can't manage it.

Burnley did for a while but have now become a yo-yo club.

If you can make it to 3 seasons up there you're absolutely loaded and can really kick on.
Something United have never managed to do

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Do you understand how much money there is in the Premier League ?

Brentford are in their 5th straight season there.

Bournemouth are in their 9th season out of 11 there.

Crowds mean nothing in the PL

That's not true. Income does matter for various financial rules.

They use data smartly. That's their big secret.

 

[John Cutsbushes]

How do they do it, tiny income from fans, sell the best players every year & lose managers to bigger clubs but still manage to stay in the premier league.

Results so far today, Bournemouth currently leading at Newcastle after selling their best player to City & Brentford leading 0:2 at the biggest club in the world.

The Premier league is a joke with those 2 in it, how do Bournemouth with 10,000 supporters meet sustainability rules?
Makes a mockery of the so called 'Best league in the world'
Shit tin pot league 2 clubs I hate them

 

[Frank the tank]

They have billionaire owners who bankroll the club

 

[Blades1971]

That's not true. Income does matter for various financial rules.

They use data smartly. That's their big secret.

Not James Bord data, surely

 

[Hanauer]

The Premier league is a joke with those 2 in it, how do Bournemouth with 10,000 supporters meet sustainability rules?
Makes a mockery of the so called 'Best league in the world'
Shit tin pot league 2 clubs I hate them

If they had a 25000 ground that's the crowds they would have.

 

[mattbianco1]

That's not true. Income does matter for various financial rules

Income does matter.

Attendances don't matter. It's a drop in the ocean compared to TV Revenue, sponsorships and player sales.

Let's say Bournemouth charge £50 per ticket to every fan at every game (they don't, it's less).

12K capacity x 50 = £600k per game.

£600k x 19 games = £11.4m.

Its nothing compared to what you received for "just being in the PL"

 

[Berkshire Blade]

Income does matter.

Attendances don't matter. It's a drop in the ocean compared to TV Revenue, sponsorships and player sales.

Let's say Bournemouth charge £50 per ticket to every fan at every game (they don't, it's less).

12K capacity x 50 = £600k per game.

£600k x 19 games = £11.4m.

Its nothing compared to what you received for "just being in the PL"

Still adds up or else you wouldn't use clubs like Fulham charging 100 a ticket

 

[Gordon Freeman]

How do they do it, tiny income from fans, sell the best players every year & lose managers to bigger clubs but still manage to stay in the premier league.

Results so far today, Bournemouth currently leading at Newcastle after selling their best player to City & Brentford leading 0:2 at the biggest club in the world.

They (alongside Brighton) were amongst the first teams in the country outside of the Premier League to employ advanced sports analytics to make data driven transfers.

It started in baseball (aka "Moneyball" - as in the Brad Pitt film) - now all US sports use it, and all professional US sport teams have analytic departments.

Liverpool were the first to do this in the UK. Ian Graham, who built their analytics department wrote a book "How to win the Premier League" (a good read if you're into this kind of thing). Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford are mentioned several times - they became aware that these teams were using the same methods because they'd often be looking at a low profile/high value (in analytic terms) player and one of those teams would suddenly sign them ahead of Liverpool making an offer.

This is the system we were going to implement, before everyone shat the bed and started ranting about "AI signing players".

 

[Gordon Freeman]

Actually, now I think about it, I think it was specifically Brighton and Brentford who were mentioned. Weren't Bournemouth bankrolled by a Russian for a time? (which enabled them to punch above their weight financially).

Anyway, the point mostly stands.

 

[Frank the tank]

They (alongside Brighton) were amongst the first teams in the country outside of the Premier League to employ advanced sports analytics to make data driven transfers.

It started in baseball (aka "Moneyball" - as in the Brad Pitt film) - now all US sports use it, and all professional US sport teams have analytic departments.

Liverpool were the first to do this in the UK. Ian Graham, who built their analytics department wrote a book "How to win the Premier League" (a good read if you're into this kind of thing). Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford are mentioned several times - they became aware that these teams were using the same methods because they'd often be looking at a low profile/high value (in analytic terms) player and one of those teams would suddenly sign them ahead of Liverpool making an offer.

This is the system we were going to implement, before everyone shat the bed and started ranting about "AI signing players".

So we were going to.use the same system as Brighton Brentford and Liverpool but everyone freaked out about AI signings

Sounds like we really missed out there
Shame we never got. To see any of these signings in action they sound fantastic

 

[Gordon Freeman]

So we were going to.use the same system as Brighton Brentford and Liverpool but everyone freaked out about AI signings

Sounds like we really missed out there
Shame we never got. To see any of these signings in action they sound fantastic

Suspect we probably never stopped doing it, just stopped talking about it openly.

All teams who can afford it have data analysts now. I don't know about much it influences transfers. I know some previous quotes on here have been attributed to Wilder saying he wasn't a fan during the last stint.

In the aforementioned book there was a quote along the lines of "Signings almost always turn out to be superstars where both the manager and analytics team agree on the player - but rarely do when there isn't a consensus" (although he was a bit scathing about some of the player Brendan Rogers turned down).

It's a good read (although pushing Liverpool as the underdog is a stretch).

 

[Gimli]

The Premier league is a joke with those 2 in it, how do Bournemouth with 10,000 supporters meet sustainability rules?
Makes a mockery of the so called 'Best league in the world'
Shit tin pot league 2 clubs I hate them

We’ve found the Wednesday fan

 

[ShorehamRevolution]

How do they do it, tiny income from fans, sell the best players every year & lose managers to bigger clubs but still manage to stay in the premier league.

Results so far today, Bournemouth currently leading at Newcastle after selling their best player to City & Brentford leading 0:2 at the biggest club in the world.

See the Bournemouth training ground, I’ve posted a YouTube video of it in our training ground thread just now.

 

[ShorehamRevolution]

They (alongside Brighton) were amongst the first teams in the country outside of the Premier League to employ advanced sports analytics to make data driven transfers.

It started in baseball (aka "Moneyball" - as in the Brad Pitt film) - now all US sports use it, and all professional US sport teams have analytic departments.

Liverpool were the first to do this in the UK. Ian Graham, who built their analytics department wrote a book "How to win the Premier League" (a good read if you're into this kind of thing). Bournemouth, Brighton, Brentford are mentioned several times - they became aware that these teams were using the same methods because they'd often be looking at a low profile/high value (in analytic terms) player and one of those teams would suddenly sign them ahead of Liverpool making an offer.

This is the system we were going to implement, before everyone shat the bed and started ranting about "AI signing players".

To play devils advocate for every decent player you find there’s always a few Matos, Ukaki, Plonkerdov’s finding themselves onto the list.

 

[Wards]

Bournemouth broke pretty much every FFP rule getting up there in the first place and faced no consequences. Felt like the EFL couldn't be arsed to prove it at the time when the rules were a little looser.

 

[mattbianco1]

The Premier league is a joke with those 2 in it, how do Bournemouth with 10,000 supporters meet sustainability rules?
Makes a mockery of the so called 'Best league in the world'
Shit tin pot league 2 clubs I hate them

You earn £110m in prize for finishing bottom. Other than their relegation season, the lowest they've finished is 16th.

16th is around £125m.

It's like asking why your neighbour can afford a Porsche when they earn £200K a year

 

[Gordon Freeman]

To play devils advocate for every decent player you find there’s always a few Matos, Ukaki, Plonkerdov’s finding themselves onto the list.

Brentford had a run of player that included Ollie Watkins, Muapay, Benrahma, Konsa, Ivan Toney, Wissa - all later sold on for big money and reinvested into the system.

Brighton have brought and sold on Caicedo, Ben White, Macallister, Cucurella, Bissouma, Trosssard, Pedro.

If you're buying players for £2 million and selling them on for £60 million, you can afford the odd dud.

 

[ShorehamRevolution]

Brentford had a run of player that included Ollie Watkins, Muapay, Benrahma, Konsa, Ivan Toney, Wissa - all later sold on for big money and reinvested into the system.

Brighton have brought and sold on Caicedo, Ben White, Macallister, Cucurella, Bissouma, Trosssard, Pedro.

If you're buying players for £2 million and selling them on for £60 million, you can afford the odd dud.

The key word in your post here is REINVESTED.

 

[YES Blade]

Income does matter.

Attendances don't matter. It's a drop in the ocean compared to TV Revenue, sponsorships and player sales.

Let's say Bournemouth charge £50 per ticket to every fan at every game (they don't, it's less).

12K capacity x 50 = £600k per game.

£600k x 19 games = £11.4m.

Its nothing compared to what you received for "just being in the PL"

Attendances clearly do matter, well at least the attendance of the rich folk in the corporate seats.

Spurs and Everton wouldn’t have invested a fortune in new stadiums if it wasn’t going to significantly increase their revenue.

 

[LondonBlade89]

This is the system we were going to implement, before everyone shat the bed and started ranting about "AI signing players".

You’ll know because you’ve read the books that saying you’re going to implement a system like that and actually doing it successfully are two completely different things. Moneyball was written more than 20 years ago. The use of data - whether you use AI or not - just isn’t a differentiator now.

 

[Gordon Freeman]

You’ll know because you’ve read the books that saying you’re going to implement a system like that and actually doing it successfully are two completely different things. Moneyball was written more than 20 years ago. The use of data - whether you use AI or not - just isn’t a differentiator now.

It is, but possibly in the other way. If using it makes constant (even small) gains, then anyone not using it is at an obvious disadvantage compared to teams around them (and that would tend towards falling down the league(s)).

The most obvious team to point to, who have been extremely late coming to the table, and prove this point perfectly (in relation to their spending and relative league position) is Manchester United. Ratcliffe admitted in an interview that the reason they've struggled over the years is because they "completely missed the data revolution" (during the time with the Glazers). They're now playing catch up, and it will probably take years.

 

[CopenhagenBlade]

What’s also interesting is the success of managers at these clubs, who don’t succeed afterwards, as though its the system that is important and the manager not so. Brentford lose Frank, who is very close to getting fired at Spurs, and upgrade a relatively inexperienced Alexander and they are a top 5 club, despite selling their 2 main strikers.

 

[Rudders]

The key word in your post here is REINVESTED.

And they got a free new ground off the council

 

[Tom Bott]

This is the system we were going to implement, before everyone shat the bed and started ranting about "AI signing players".

Still Dunfermline may benefit from our losses.

There are hundreds of AI driven sports analytic firms.

While the exact number of exclusively AI-driven football analytics firms is not precisely tracked, the broader sports performance analytics sector is extensive, comprising over 2,000 organizations worldwide.

Opta for example have 7.2 petabytes of data available.
That's even more massive than Wendy.

There are hundreds of football managers - Selles, Xisco Munoz etc.

Some are good some are absolute pants, results depend on which ones the owners engage.

AI told me yesterday that Sheffield United have a waiting list of 20000 for season tickets.


Must be true - it's the future.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Do you understand how much money there is in the Premier League ?

Brentford are in their 5th straight season there.

Bournemouth are in their 9th season out of 11 there.

Crowds mean nothing in the PL

And yet we've had 3 seasons there in recent times and seem skinter each time we're there.

 

[NewBee]

And they got a free new ground off the council

Who do you mean by "they", Brighton or Brentford?
Either way, it doesn't matter.
For Brighton, it was Tony Bloom whom personally bankrolled the entire development. As for "the council", the site traverses two local Councils, Brighton and Lewes, and while Brighton were supportive, Lewes were dead set against it, refusing planning permission and filing appeals, which seriously delayed the project. In the end it had to go to the Secretary of State to overturn their objections.
As for Brentford, the cost of the development was funded by the sale of Griffin Park for housing, plus owner Matthew Benham underwriting just under £100m to get developers on board. If the associated housing development on the GTech site makes top money for the developers who actually built it, then Benham may get some, even all, of his money back, but it's not guaranteed. In any case, the developers will get their cut of any profits first.
Meanwhile, Hounslow Council didn't put any money into it, none. In fact they were initially obstructive, until Brentford fans started putting up single-issue candidates in the local council elections, attracting enough votes to scare the Council into a u-turn and supporting it, granting planning permission etc. Still no money, though.