blackwell on radio sheff

[Grecian2000]

"Don't be fooled by an average gate. Me, my sister and 2 kids are season ticket holders. It costs abut £600 per season, for 4 of us. That might an extreme, but when you consider 20,000 paying (let's say) £250 per year each raises only £5M. Then you have players demanding (let's say) 40K per week, £2M per year."

I think you'll find the average spend is greater than £250 per person. Even if it isn't then let's not forget that the ticket is only the start of spending on your match day experience.

The programs seem to sell well at £3 a pop. Judging by the queues on the Kop, the food and drink is popular despite the diabolical pricing. I've never seen the club shop anything other than snided out from 1pm onwards.
A large crowd generates far more income than a low one even if you slashed the price of tickets.

 

[TonyAgana]

KB says he needs 2 and we sell 6 and claiming poverty?

I think there's a more obvious target for your finger pointing than 1st team manager Kevin Blackwell!

 

[Jimbo]

What about the trial players who we couldn't sign with no premier teams in for them? I know the agents will have said they wanted more, but if they have no other clubs offering for them, surely it can't be too much extra??

Money troubles at the lane.... can we pay the electricity bill????

:fishbowl:

You mean Camara and Pancrate? Pretty sure Blackwell came out at the time and said we weren't going to sign them because of the greedy agents demanding ridiculous money. I, for one, am glad to see united standing their ground and not bending over for any demand the greedy f*ckers are asking for.

Also, if no other clubs are offering anything for them, doesn't that tell you they're not worth the money either they or their agents are demanding?!

 

[jodman]

I, for one, am glad to see united standing their ground and not bending over for any demand the greedy f*ckers are asking for.

Whilst i am happy that we didn't sign either of the two players mentioned i do think that the claims that the club are taking some sort of high and mighty stance against agents fee's is a bit ridiculous.

Agents fee's are all part of transfer dealings; sure they are an annoyance and it seems like money for nothing but the bottom line is that if you want to sign a player with an agent you have to pay a fee to that agent.

 

[matth]

You mean Camara and Pancrate? Pretty sure Blackwell came out at the time and said we weren't going to sign them because of the greedy agents demanding ridiculous money. I, for one, am glad to see united standing their ground and not bending over for any demand the greedy f*ckers are asking for.

Also, if no other clubs are offering anything for them, doesn't that tell you they're not worth the money either they or their agents are demanding?!

Yeah, it's great isn't it. We won't pay the going rate because we're 'making a stand' and we end up with not a single fit striker to play a league match.

Maybe we can take a stand agains the ridiculous prices the electricity companies charge and turn off the floodlights at night too? Or I'll tell you what, those stewards - they charge a right fortune! Let's not pay them. Seems that it's only the club that can rip people off, with their £40 shirts and wank, overpriced merchandise.

We're at the mercy of market forces, and if we won't pay the prices, someone else will - so our 'making a stand' is nothing more than cutting our noses off to spite our face.

 

[Jimbo]

Whilst i am happy that we didn't sign either of the two players mentioned i do think that the claims that the club are taking some sort of high and mighty stance against agents fee's is a bit ridiculous.

Agents fee's are all part of transfer dealings; sure they are an annoyance and it seems like money for nothing but the bottom line is that if you want to sign a player with an agent you have to pay a fee to that agent.

Yeah that's a fair enough point. I don't mind us paying agents fees and I'm not trying to say we should be above doing so, just don't want to see us paying way over the odds for players who don't merit it just to satisfy the moaners who accuse us of having no ambition or being 'cheap as chips'.

 

[Jimbo]

Yeah, it's great isn't it. We won't pay the going rate because we're 'making a stand' and we end up with not a single fit striker to play a league match.QUOTE]

Or we could pay whatever it takes to get any player we want in and end up like Reading / Wednesday / Leeds / Charlton etc etc etc...

If a player was good enough to deserve the kind of money they were asking for there would have been plenty of teams in for him.

Then again, we could always have spent whatever they were asking for and when he turned out to be sh*t it'd have given people something else to moan about!

 

[matth]

There is a middle ground, you know. I'm not advocating getting ourselves into a Leeds or Pigs state. What I am advocating is admitting that there are market forces in play that we can either accept or constantly scrabble around in the bargain basement.

 

[Jimbo]

There is a middle ground, you know. I'm not advocating getting ourselves into a Leeds or Pigs state. What I am advocating is admitting that there are market forces in play that we can either accept or constantly scrabble around in the bargain basement.

Totally agree mate, I just think that the case of the agents in this case falls into that catagory!

 

[SheepdipBlade]

We're at the mercy of market forces, and if we won't pay the prices, someone else will - so our 'making a stand' is nothing more than cutting our noses off to spite our face.

You're absolutely right Matt - we are at the mercy of market forces - - which is why we have to sell players and restrict wages at a time when increasing numbers of clubs (inc PL Portsmouth) are threatened with administration - and when we've lost our parachute payments during an economic downturn.

Because of those very same market forces the Club have to recognise our financial limits and work within them - whilst at the same time trying to generate monies from off field ventures such as gyms etc

If others want to play fast and loose with their money - and the very existance of their clubs - then that's up to them - but I'd rather we live within our means that burn brightly for 3 or 4 seasons before joining Leeds or Bradford in the minor leagues.

 

[matth]

It could be argued that if we don't pay the going rate for players we'll be joining Leeds or Bradford anyway. You can't win matches with no players.

Portsmouth are unsurprisingly in the shit because a) they've got no fans and b) they've spent a truly ridiculous amount on players and wages.

We've got a good fan-base, and have never spent truly astronomical wages. It's strange that we've have to cut costs quite so drastically, when our costs were never really that high in the first place.

I'm not an advocate of playing fast and loose, but neither am I an advocate of over-excessive caution. A middle ground could easily be found.

 

[SheepdipBlade]

I think me and you are having this discussion on two threads at the same time!!

Have a look at the Eagles at the Lane thread - cos my thoughts on there about the differences in how fans and owners see SUFC kind of answers your point here.

Perhaps the owners feel that where we have arrived at today is the middle ground?

But I agree about Pompey - and in addition to having crap fans and no financial sense - they only know one song!!

 

[mall]

We and every club are subject to market forces, its inevitable.
Even so there are three clubs promoted every year and we aren't one of them.
There's nothing like sport to illustrate how effective our management compare to others, and except for a few chosen years, all too brief, we fair badly against not only the really big clubs, but some very small ones also.

 

[Bramley]

sorry guys all this financial stuff is a load of crap we have the biggest average gate that we,ve ever had in the championship we must be making good money on a home day, we have a tiny squad full of loan players that we don't pay full wages for, McCabe is balancing the books so it looks like we make good money so he can sell us on he wanted us in the Premier League but we didn't stay so got us a big name boss hense the Robson appointment so he could tell all his big time mate in Geneva and china look we have an ex england captain as boss doesn't matter that he was a crap manager with an average history. He is now bored doesn't think we can get back in the Premier league after last may so is cashing in on good players like Kyles and killa he will sell killa at the last minute in january so we have no time for a replacement except loans. We are building the team up of average players on small wages like davies and fortune. Its a good job our captain loves the club and isn't on big money or he would have been gone to. I'm getting fed up of this bullshit that comes for blackwells mouth nothing comes of any targets were rumoured to get or they take ages to go through we were linked with Mcsheffrey weeks ago and still are. Sorry to go on and on but all we hear is excuses from blackwell about finances we should be making good money.

Morgan is the top wage earner at the Lane.

 

[TonyAgana]

Morgan is the top wage earner at the Lane.

And quite rightly.

 

[spadge]

i understand and agree that we shouldnt go mad but the problem is befor you go mad you have to atleast be in the middle ground we aint evan there yet, you have to look at who weve brought in and whos gone out theres no way you can say that is ballanced its well below par. Then you have all the feeder clubs that nothing is happening. its jsut one big joke.

 

[Bramley]

Agree re: Morgs.

Whilst no one likes selling their better players, the way I see it is if a Premier League sniffs around a player in the Championship it is difficult for them to hang onto him. It's an economic reality of being in this division. Particularly one who's contract is up soon and to be frank, hasn't pulled up any trees this season. I know there's Joe Ledley as an example, but there's 'x' numbers of others who have made the move and I don't think anyone can argue that the underlying trend favours players jumping ship for the Prem.

It does concern me at the minute though re: weakening the squad, but the situation is exasperated by the chronic injuries we have at the moment. I'm still confident we have a top 6 side when fully fit.

I also have reservations about Blackwell, but I think he deserves the fans support during this tricky period and we owe him some patience to see how his team shapes up when injury-free.

It's disappointing but I've seen a lot worse at the Lane. UTB

 

[Bramley]

PS - the next one to be poached will be Callum McFadzean - apparently the rumour is he has just signed up to the same agent as Steven Gerrard!

 

[spadge]

my problem is the fact that we just seem to be gettin bullshitted and everything seems to be done to save money with no ambition

 

[alcoblade]

40K per week where you heard that i doubt any of the players are on half of that, and like the above poster said 50% of out team are loanees so we wont be paying full

if a single player is prepared to make do on half that, a mere £1M per year, does that make it acceptable in the context of our "massive" gates raising about £6M?

You have no evedence whatsoever (I'll gues) that we aren't paying in full for the loanees. Subsidised wages are often used when the players are on enormous money and have fallen out of favour.

UTB

 

[Berks_Blade]

40K per week where you heard that i doubt any of the players are on half of that, and like the above poster said 50% of out team are loanees so we wont be paying full

Being on loan doesn't mean we're not paying full wages. Sometimes you don't if they're from a prem club that just wants to give them more games so subsidises the wages - but for others you have to pay both the full wages and a loan fee. Unless you have inside info, you don't know which way round our loanees are.

We may have big gates, but as someone else said we have v low ST prices compared with many clubs. Reading don't draw anything like our crowds, but their ST prices are nearly double some of ours - and they lost £6mill last year (if I remember right - the figures were in the local press 2 weeks ago) despite parachute payments.

I wouldn't necessarily take Killa's word if he says he hasn't been offered a deal - I'd be v surprised if we haven't been having talks for some time, but maybe we haven't made a formal offer because his agent says they won't listen if it's less than say 30-40k a week?

We've taken players in from lower league clubs who can't match what we can pay, similarly we can't match what a Prem club can. Live with it.

 

[Flatulent_Bob]

How is it that everything the management say is gospel, and anything anyone else says is bollocks?

I like McCabe but I'm not naive enough to think that everything he says is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

It isn't gospel but I look at the logic in that situation. Soke can't sign BT without him wanting to go.
IF he really wanted to stay he would of done, there was a 0% chance of him being dumped in the reserves if he didn't go. Therefore he is talking shite saying he wanted to stay till the end of his career.
I'm sure he was happy at the club, and I'm sure it might of been a difficult decision to leave, but it was his decision and he made it. Not the club, the player decided if he wants to go, just look at how we faired at bombing Hendrie and Carney out, it took it until the last year of their contract.
Same goes for the Kyles, they were sold because they wanted out. I can't blame them but they forced the deal, it is simply impossible for the club to do it with players of their standing.

 

[alcoblade]

We've got a good fan-base, and have never spent truly astronomical wages. It's strange that we've have to cut costs quite so drastically, when our costs were never really that high in the first place.

The season before last and into last season our wagebill was north of £20M, in England's second division. How high is that high?

UTB

 

[Mad Mick]

Sadly however you look at it the old days are gone. Times when the likes of Joe Shaw and Woody spent most of their days at the same club are over. Clubs first and foremost are business's. Players are a commodity. Whatever players say or do they are out to earn the most they can. Loyalty usually takes a back seat. All you need to do is take a look at the accounts to see how things stand. My personal opinion is that McCabe is playing the longer game. Maybe he believes that this transfer and wages madness can't go on. I certainly think at the rate things are going the bubble is gonna burst. If and when it does United could clean up. I can't wait for the day that players get paid what they are actually worth and transfer fee's sink back to something like sensible levels.
Before this happens a lot of clubs are going to go to the wall.
All this will probably mean we will limit pay and limit transfers in for the foreseeable future. It hurts to see good players go, it hurts to see us play crap football, it hurts if we don't get promoted. But it would hurt a lot more if we went down the same path as the pigs. We may be cheap as chips, but at least we will always be able to afford the fish to go with it. We have built a great ground and hopefully eventually we will get the team to go with it. On another aside, commercial property prices are beginning to turn. This could increase our chairman's wealth dramatically, you never know some of that may rub off on us.

 

[alcoblade]

It isn't gospel but I look at the logic at that situation. Soke can't sign BT without him wanting to go.
IF he really wanted to stay he would of done, there was a 0% chance of him being dumped in the reserves if he didn't go. Therefore he is talking shite saying he wanted to stay till the end of his career.
I'm sure he was happy at the club, and I'm sure it might of been a difficult decision to leave, but it was his decision and he made it. Not the club, the player decided if he wants to go, just look at how we faired at bombing Hendrie and Carney out, it took it until the last year of their contract.
Same goes for the Kyles, they were sold because they wanted out. I can't blame them but they forced the deal, it is simply impossible for the club to do it with players of their standing.

exactly. Beattie publicly disclosed he was happy to stay until the end of his career. What he didn't publicise is that he was after an increase on the £40,000 every week that we were paying him. And listening to half of our fan-base, we should have obliged. Seemingly, though we were outside the playoffs and drifting aimlessly WITH Beattie, if we'd have kept him promotion was guaranteed. No further evidence is required as to why half our fanbase is flipping burgers whilst McCabe is successfully running multi million pound industries.

 

[spadge]

yes but theres making sure were financially stable and theres been ridiculus and just plain bullshitting the fans (what they dont realise is if it wasnt for us who go week in week out there wouldnt be a sheffield united). coming out telling us one thing and then doing another thing, i think there very sly and devious. a point made earlier somes it up imagine if we had sold killa aswell as walker and naughton there would have been up roar BUT if they dont sell him make it sound like we want to keep him then offering him f**k all and he comes out and says well if that the case im going then its killa not united. iv backed blackwell and mccabe all season and seasons before but after sitting back and thinking long and hard i think theres alot of shit happening and like iv said theres only one way we are going and it aint to the premiership. The squads in a right state i think i can remember having a luagh about our neighbours having a abismal squad and the amount of loanees they had, but evan they can turn down 1.2 million and get there better players to sign a 4 year deal says alot for a team 30 million in debt that.

 

[alcoblade]

but evan they can turn down 1.2 million and get there better players to sign a 4 year deal says alot for a team 30 million in debt that.

you make some decent point here, but maybe that's why they're £30M in debt. And what's more they're below us and in trouble on anf off the pitch.

UTB

 

[spadge]

yes there three points below us 1 win thats all, the win we got against them and come on we nearly through that away and didnt pull any trees up. This all for a team who like you say are in trouble on and off the pitch, id sit back mate and take a long hard look because how i see it, ud think they were the ones who was a better financial position.