Blackman or Moore?

[Sheffsteel]

Blackman for me.
He’s better than he looks and will only improve.

I really like how Blackman deals with crosses and corners.
He just strolls off his line, doesn’t bother jumping (because he’s so tall) and calmly plucks the ball out of the air.
He always seems so calm and laid back.

Still think Moore is decent though and I’m fine about him playing too.

 

[bromtom]

I like to always see a player keep the shirt for the next game, unless injured or poor form intervenes. Don't know if letting the goal in versus Hull constitutes poor form. But to drop Moore after his first full league game of the season would be a poor decision in my opinion.

Wouldn't dropping Blackman after an injury/ fluke goal be more harmful to him than Moore going back on the bench after filling in for an injured player would be for him? I'd think so. Have to show Jamal that you're not blaming him or that'll eat at him and affect his confidence.

No different to sticking Coutts back on for Lundstram after his suspension in my opinion, or Baldock for Bash when he's fit.

 

[stringer]

Cahill has got how long left?
Fabregas likewise.
Moses isn’t good enough.

Jamal is 23 and a keeper has around 14 years from that point. Would be a perfectly good quota filler for them.

What’s your point exactly?

True, they only won the Prem with him last season. My point is, they’d consider selling him despite your assurances to the contrary.

 

[Ricky]

Blackman's quite good at claiming crosses but if I was him I'd be aiming to become absolutely dominant in the box. At 6"6 he's got a great natural advantage. If he could do that then I'm sure he'll have a career in the PL.

 

[mancunianblade]

Blackman has more than earned his spot for me, it's up to Moore to earn it back. Fairly nice problem to have though, when you consider some of the keepers we've had in recent years.

Although I think if Jamal is injured for a wee while, Moore will come into his own again, and I don't think there would be any more long range punts going in in the same fashion as against Hull.

I’d say Blackman over Moore but have to say Moore earned his start for this season and lost his place due to injury so imo would be unfair to treat Moore any different.

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

As it is international break and we have time on our hands, I would like to look at the bigger picture and why referendums are hardly ever any good for producing a meaningful answer (except perhaps on whether referendums or referenda is the correct word). Most topics are too complicated for a simple answer, and fortunately CW is the only one who has to take the decision.
In my view, both keepers are of a standard to play at this level; highlights of Championship and Premiership matches this season have shown lots of goalkeeping howlers, none of which have been committed by Blackman or Moore; some errors, but no howlers. So, how to decide? Moore, because he is not a loan-player? Blackman, because he is bigger? Do what England did, when they alternated Shilton and Clemence? Leave it up to management to decide, as they know better than us? Sit back and enjoy the football, happy that we have 2 decent keepers? Don't know/Don't care?
I am interested to read everybody's comments and reasons, but prefer to ignore the vote. I'm pretty sure CW would do the same.

 

[Slim Man]

True, they only won the Prem with him last season. My point is, they’d consider selling him despite your assurances to the contrary.

Eric Djemba Djemba’s won the prem...

 

[mosbolad]

We have faced on average 2.5 shots on target per game (fewest in the league).

We concede 0.88 goals per game (14) in total, against a predicted concede rate of 0.80 goals per game.

We are saving very slightly less than we ought to, or conceding very slightly more than we ought to (which ever way you want to put it).

Not my stats, taken from the link below. Make what you want of it.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=corr_defence

 

[Slug]

Blackman will play for England one day

 

[Liaminho9]

We may even be facing less shots because as an opposition player looks up to shoot, they see Blackman covering so much of the goal and take a second thought?

 

[HodgysBrokenThumb]

We may even be facing less shots because as an opposition player looks up to shoot, they see Blackman covering so much of the goal and take a second thought?

Certainly the Wolves' penalty taker suddenly looked as if he didn't fancy it...

 

[Cerberus Blade]

I don't think there's much to choose between them myself. I think Moore has a bit more urgency about him and his distribution is better. I think Blackman is better dealing with high balls but I'm not convinced about other parts of his game. I'd probably hand the shirt back to Blackman for now, but I'm sure Moore will get another chance before long. Before George Long that is! (He was another great keeper that was going to play for England one day).

I've been impressed with three keepers so far this season. The guy last week for Hull, McGregor. I thought he was outstanding. I also though Reading's keeper, Mannone, was good. And despite him being an utter timewasting twat of the highest order, I thought Norwich's goalkeeper, Gunn, was very good.

 

[mosbolad]

We may even be facing less shots because as an opposition player looks up to shoot, they see Blackman covering so much of the goal and take a second thought?

Not convinced (I know you were joking ) as if they viewed the stats (which they won't) they will realise that if they do shoot more will go in than predicted. In fact there are 14 teams that have a better correlation between predicted goals and actual goals scored (i.e fewer goals scored per shots on target).

It's possible that as there are so few shots on target (2.5 per game) the ones that do get through are better quality. Alternatively the defence are doing their job/protecting Blackman well as they know that if a shot gets through it may well go in.

And for what it's worth, the stats last year in league 1 were very similar with Moore having only a slightly 'better' ratio and we won the league with 100 points.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=corr_defence

 

[ChipButtyBlade]

I like tall goalkeepers,they are both tall.

 

[BushBlade]

Not convinced (I know you were joking ) as if they viewed the stats (which they won't) they will realise that if they do shoot more will go in than predicted. In fact there are 14 teams that have a better correlation between predicted goals and actual goals scored (i.e fewer goals scored per shots on target).

It's possible that as there are so few shots on target (2.5 per game) the ones that do get through are better quality. Alternatively the defence are doing their job/protecting Blackman well as they know that if a shot gets through it may well go in.

And for what it's worth, the stats last year in league 1 were very similar with Moore having only a slightly 'better' ratio and we won the league with 100 points.

http://www.footcharts.co.uk/index.cfm?task=corr_defence

I don't think those sample sizes are big enough to be meaningful and I'd question the accuracy of the raw data. What actually constitutes a 'shot on target'? With between 2.5 and 5 shots per game, one hopeful long range shot that's easily saved per game can really skew the stats.

 

[HermitageBlade]

Blackman will play for England one day

Oi that’s my bet !!!

 

[Maidenhead]

If the rumours are right and Blackman is on £26k a week then he will be a one season wonder at Bramall Lane, as there is no way that we could justify paying that for a goalkeeper.

I reckon Moore will be on no more than a quarter of that and Blackman is not four times better than him, so I pick Moore because I love to get value for money and he will still be around next season.

 

[The Crab]

There’ll be no ‘assurances’ on anything from Wilder, as regards loan players playing.

I don't think Wilder would want to make that sort of deal. It wouldn't suprise me if any deals we may have missed out on was for that reason. If so, I'm fine with that, spots should be earned.

 

[The Crab]

Oi, that’s one of mine! Collectors of my back catalogue will confirm...

Oh bollocks, sorry Pinch. I had to make some room in the garage, it was a choice between the back catalogues and the Val Doonican collection.

 

[RedandWhite]

They are both equally as good as each other. If I had to choose, I'd say Moore though just for the fact last season he was brilliant, he didn't get team of the season for nothing, one rusty mistake against Hull would not take him out the side for me, he also almost got an assist for the fourth.

But I don't think Blackman is any worse though, he does scare the shit out of many players for his shear size and is a good shot stopper.

 

[DazBlade88]

If the rumours are right and Blackman is on £26k a week then he will be a one season wonder at Bramall Lane, as there is no way that we could justify paying that for a goalkeeper.

I reckon Moore will be on no more than a quarter of that and Blackman is not four times better than him, so I pick Moore because I love to get value for money and he will still be around next season.

I just want to clarify before anyone panics, we are not paying him that much

 

[mosbolad]

I don't think those sample sizes are big enough to be meaningful and I'd question the accuracy of the raw data. What actually constitutes a 'shot on target'? With between 2.5 and 5 shots per game, one hopeful long range shot that's easily saved per game can really skew the stats.

Yes Bushblade, whilst it's iteresting for a boring fart like me I agree it's validity has many variables. Of course as you say the larger the sample size the less a hopeful long range shot will skew results, and what indeed is a shot on target?

I think it is fair to say that a useless keeper will let in more shots on target than a top keeper over a season. DeGea is an undoubted excellent keeper and over the last few seasons using the stats page (Manu) has let in fewer shots on target than would be predicted but is certainly not top (although usually in the top half dozen).

There is so much more to a keepers game today (sweeping, kicks, communication, crosses etc) that hard stats only show a small part of the picture that is subject to interpretation. There would need to be further analysis of difficulty of shot and expectation to score which I have actually seen somewhere and Harry Kane tops that one (quelle surprise!)

Still........ I do like me stats!

Oh and I think Blackman is back training......

 

[mosbolad]

I just want to clarify before anyone panics, we are not paying him that much

We may well be paying half that much which is still a lot.....

I don't think Wilder would want to make that sort of deal. It wouldn't suprise me if any deals we may have missed out on was for that reason. If so, I'm fine with that, spots should be earned.

There may well not be a 'deal' as such Crab but there will be an expectation that he will play. If there wasn't I don't think for one minute Chelsea would have loaned him to us.

 

[stringer]

I don't think Wilder would want to make that sort of deal. It wouldn't suprise me if any deals we may have missed out on was for that reason. If so, I'm fine with that, spots should be earned.

They have turned down loan players when there have been demands like that, ie United pay all the wage if he doesn’t play and only half if he does. Tufty said thanks but no thanks.

 

[The Crab]

They have turned down loan players when there have been demands like that, ie United pay all the wage if he doesn’t play and only half if he does. Tufty said thanks but no thanks.

I think thats the right approach Danny. Can't have the tail wagging the Dog.

 

[bromtom]

If the rumours are right and Blackman is on £26k a week then he will be a one season wonder at Bramall Lane, as there is no way that we could justify paying that for a goalkeeper.

I reckon Moore will be on no more than a quarter of that and Blackman is not four times better than him, so I pick Moore because I love to get value for money and he will still be around next season.

I doubt Moore is on 6.5K a week now, maybe he'd be around 5/6 last season, but it's got to be up around 10 now surely, didn't the players get a wage increase with promotion?

Anyway whatever Jamal is in, I doubt were paying all or perhaps any of it, probably paying for his apartment or something, but touch wood should we continue to do well and get promotion and go in for him, assuming he wants to move Oop North permanently, I'm sure he'd take a pay cut for regular first team football in the Premiership.

If we stay in the Championship I'm sure Chelsea will happily continue to pay his wages in return for him getting minutes in an extremely competitive league in a team that plays quality football.

 

[mosbolad]

I doubt Moore is on 6.5K a week now, maybe he'd be around 5/6 last season, but it's got to be up around 10 now surely, didn't the players get a wage increase with promotion?

Anyway whatever Jamal is in, I doubt were paying all or perhaps any of it, probably paying for his apartment or something, but touch wood should we continue to do well and get promotion and go in for him, assuming he wants to move Oop North permanently, I'm sure he'd take a pay cut for regular first team football in the Premiership.

If we stay in the Championship I'm sure Chelsea will happily continue to pay his wages in return for him getting minutes in an extremely competitive league in a team that plays quality football.

Interesting Bromtom but not convinced at all. I doubt that Moore was on 5 or 6 last season. Possible but really doubt it. Yes he will have got a significant wage rise possible double on promotion so could be uphill to 10.

Assuming Blackman is on 26 a week as has been suggested and bear in mind he is on a long Chelsea contract quite possible. I really can't imagine Chelsea offering him for nothing with no playing promises in return for us paying say a bag of sand a month for an apartment. It's just not feasible. We may be paying perhaps half his wage but I can't see it being any more than that.

IF...we did get promoted AND wanted Blackman any transfer fee apart then 26 would be a top end realistic number one keeper salary so he wouldn't need to take any cut as such.

Of course all this is speculation..........

 

[Ihadadream]

If Blackman is on 26k a week then no way are we paying his wages so we must have got a good deal in place with Chelsea....I’d put him straight back in ok he dropped one at QPR but Moore could have done better with the one Hull got, if you were waiting to take a penalty stood facing Blackman then I bet not much of the net is on show!!

 

[Maidenhead]

I just want to clarify before anyone panics, we are not paying him that much

And never will

 

[Hull Blade]

He can't get a shirt in Prem, not seeing your logic there.

Still a good keeper. Worth a punt in the window..Better than Butland, who is seriously over rated in my estimation.