Billy's goal drought

[sitwell]

Yes it's my opinion. Thought that would have been a given. Silly old me.

Your "Based on your Previous" shout is hilarious.

FYI, unless I type FACT in big bold shouty fashion, please assume what I say is my opinion

To the point, And more recently, which is more relevant, as we have seen a CLEAR pattern of a more direct approach, no goals in 4 games for our top scorer in the division / country..

It's not a coincidence.

UTB

PS Hanson has 1 goal for UTD. Billy has 26. TWENTYFUCKINGSIX. FACT

And how have we done in these games ? Its not all about who gets the goals ,that is such a amateur point of view. Remind me where we are ,and how our recent form is ,why the drama ?

 

[LJBlade]

Yes it's my opinion. Thought that would have been a given. Silly old me.

Your "Based on your Previous" shout is hilarious.

FYI, unless I type FACT in big bold shouty fashion, please assume what I say is my opinion

To the point, And more recently, which is more relevant, as we have seen a CLEAR pattern of a more direct approach, no goals in 4 games for our top scorer in the division / country..

It's not a coincidence.

UTB

PS Hanson has 1 goal for UTD. Billy has 26. TWENTYFUCKINGSIX

You mentioned evidence like you had actually put some forward. Hence why I thought you were giving more than just your own opinion. My 'based on your previous' comment was regarding the fact that I've questioned you on several different topics recently and you never seem to be ab;e to support your comments with anything tangible. Your ability to identify that Higdon wasn't very good doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, the more you tell us that you know what you're talking about only makes it worse.

So Sharp hasn't scored in 4 games. So what. Do good strikers, playing with good team mates never go a run of games without scoring? You say it's not coincidence. At the moment all the evidence points to the fact that it is a coincidence. The fact is Sharp has scored 8 in 9 playing with Hanson, go ahead and tell me otherwise.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Im not going to go looking but some of your special type of abuse certainly went Basham ,OConnell ,Clarkes ,Coutts and McNultys way ,and do you deny calling EEL ,'that cunt from Wolves ' ? Im sure that can be found .

I don't deny it. It was immediately after the defeat to Fleetwood and he played diabolical. I use the term quite liberally, it doesn't always signify that I hate the person involved.

I've praised every single member of the squad at one time or another, so this idea that I have it in for the team really doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

 

[DronnieBlade]

DB, my post 78 which you may have missed. I'm not criticising Sharp, but why does he play so far off Hanson, as he did Clarke. Is that down to Wilder? Because that's not changed since day one.

I'll say it again. In big bold shouty letters. And if you would care to go back on my posts, for the 93rd time !

SHARP DOES NOT WORK WELL OFF A TARGET MAN. NEVER HAS DONE. NEVER WILL DO.

So, dependent on your particular brand of Darjeeling, play him with someone else (Chapman, McNulty, Done, Lavery / some other player not as yet at the club) or, bluntly, sell him on.

You know where I stand on this one.

UTB

 

[LJBlade]

And how have we done in these games ? Its not all about who gets the goals ,that is such a amateur point of view. Remind me where we are ,and how our recent form is ,why the drama ?

It's also worth noting that before Hanson came in we'd just gone 3 games without a win and Sharp had only scored 1 out of those 3.

 

[I should coco]

I'll back TD on this one. He has said this consistently and for some time.

Source!

 

[1danewhitehouse]

You really think Sharps performance last night was because of Hanson ?? Wow.
He had a bad game as all players do ,hes had a couple actually ,but he should be in there because he is always likely to score ,don't blame another player for him having a bad game though. I just wish he would attack the front post more. He had a poor game at Oldham on Saturday but still had 2 clear opportunities to score ,was that Hansons fault too ?

I'm not sure who this was aimed at. I wouldn't say it was Hanson's fault as such but I do think that playing alongside strikers with certain attributes is more likely to bring out the best of the other striker. For example, Hanson would probably benefit from playing alongside a pacey "off the shoulder" striker as more of his flick ons would be met. I'm not sure they compliment each other all that well. Billy almost has to play because of the goals he scores which for means Hanson would be on the bench when Lavery is fit (albeit it rotated in sporadically). This is because I think Sharp is more effective alongside a forward with pace who can drag defenders around and play little 1-2 moves with him.

 

[sitwell]

I'll say it again. In big bold shouty letters. And if you would care to go back on my posts, for the 93rd time !

SHARP DOES NOT WORK WELL OFF A TARGET MAN. NEVER HAS DONE. NEVER WILL DO.

So, dependent on your particular brand of Darjeeling, play him with someone else (Chapman, McNulty, Done, Lavery / some other player not as yet at the club) or, bluntly, sell him on.

You know where I stand on this one.

UTB

Why are you arguing against facts ? The stats make you wrong ,no argument.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'll say it again. In big bold shouty letters. And if you would care to go back on my posts, for the 93rd time !

SHARP DOES NOT WORK WELL OFF A TARGET MAN. NEVER HAS DONE. NEVER WILL DO.

So, dependent on your particular brand of Darjeeling, play him with someone else (Chapman, McNulty, Done, Lavery / some other player not as yet at the club) or, bluntly, sell him on.

You know where I stand on this one.

UTB

Shout all you want. That doesn't answer my question. It's simple enough. Rather than seeming to believe you're at the internet equivalent of Rorkes Drift battling the oncoming hordes, look at what people are saying rather than defending Sharp when he's not even being attacked.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

I'm not sure who this was aimed at. I wouldn't say it was Hanson's fault as such but I do think that playing alongside strikers with certain attributes is more likely to bring out the best of the other striker. For example, Hanson would probably benefit from playing alongside a pacey "off the shoulder" striker as more of his flick ons would be met. I'm not sure they compliment each other all that well. Billy almost has to play because of the goals he scores which for means Hanson would be on the bench when Lavery is fit (albeit it rotated in sporadically). This is because I think Sharp is more effective alongside a forward with pace who can drag defenders around and play little 1-2 moves with him.

I don't know how we can question the forwards we have . Ok it's all about opinions and even were you sit in the ground can have a bearing on what you see and don't see .

To me we question Wilders judgement . However we are top of the league .

Me , I'm happy with what we have got. also Clarke will be a asset IMO .

 

[I should coco]

Rather than seeming to believe you're at the internet equivalent of Rorkes Drift battling the oncoming hordes,

Would he be the posh officer (Michael Caine), the hard working engineer (Stanley Baker) or the malingering Private Hook (James Booth)?

Just askin.......

 

[Blend-it-like-Harris]

Since the arrival of Hanson we have become more flexible and less predictable. That will seem illogical to some; a ball up to Hanson's head seems very predictable doesn't it? However, it's the movement and positioning of other players that is the key to our flexibility. When the ball's in the air on route to Hanson, two central defenders are usually back-peddling and pre-occupied with judging what position to hold and when to time their challenge. I'm pretty sure in those moments they aren't too occupied by any run that Billy might be making, or where the hell Freeman might be for example. Billy pops up left flank this time, Freeman shows up attacking left-midfield another time. Defenders might be thinking "What the **** is he doing out there?" and fans might be thinking the same. I'm sure one or two Millwall players looked at each other and thought "Where the f*** did he come from!?" when Freeman drilled the ball home for his 10th league goal. Who gives a flying fart if Hanson or Billy doesn't get on the score sheet when we cruise though a routine don't-bother-to-shift-out-of-3rd-gear game like that! Let the opposition worry about stopping Billy guys, but we certainly don't need to worry - nor does Billy.

 

[Bladeian]

I wish we had someone who could score 20+ goals a season and not have any off days .. that would be just brilliant wouldn't it ..

 

[LJBlade]

Yes it's my opinion. Thought that would have been a given. Silly old me.

Your "Based on your Previous" shout is hilarious.

FYI, unless I type FACT in big bold shouty fashion, please assume what I say is my opinion

To the point, And more recently, which is more relevant, as we have seen a CLEAR pattern of a more direct approach, no goals in 4 games for our top scorer in the division / country..

It's not a coincidence.

UTB

PS Hanson has 1 goal for UTD. Billy has 26. TWENTYFUCKINGSIX. FACT

And just for further evidence, in case you need any, Sharp has started 30 games without Hanson and scored 18 goals. His scoring record WITH Hanson is 1.25 games per goal. His record WITHOUT Hanson is 1.66 games per goal.

I'd also note that this is the 2nd time this season Sharp has gone 4 games without scoring. The other 4 were against Bury, Charlton, Walsall and Swindon. Was that a coincidence or not?

 

[BanbridgeBlade]

Earlier in the season he played with Done & scored loads. Later in the season we sign Hanson & play Lavery more. Billy finds it harder to score.............

I don't believe he cant play with certain types, I think he's getting more attention from opposition defenders because he's leading scorer of the table toppers.
I can barely remember what I had for breakfast never mind earlier in the season, but I don't remember Done creating more than a handful for Sharp.

I posted it on another thread, but, I believe the "drought" (which it isn't!!!) is a lot to do with his tiredness, trying too hard to get the goals & ending up out of position. Imagine Wilder talking to Billy & suggesting he needs a rest......... i'm sure the answer would be "keep playing me i'm fine"

 

[I should coco]

And just for further evidence, in case you need any, Sharp has started 30 games without Hanson and scored 18 goals. His scoring record WITH Hanson is 1.25 games per goal. His record WITHOUT Hanson is 1.66 games per goal

Wonderful!

If you are going all statistical on us, you may wish to consider the size your data population. It think you will find you don't have enough 'evidence' to make any statistically significant claims.

Come back here after he's played about 40 games with Hanson and then we can have a statistically valid discussion. Or not.

 

[Alfreton14Blade]

Mid-November - mid-December: 5 games without a goal.

Then along come ... Coventry.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Would he be the posh officer (Michael Caine), the hard working engineer (Stanley Baker) or the malingering Private Hook (James Booth)?

Just askin.......

Ivor Emmanuel.

 

[I should coco]

Ivor Emmanuel.

The annoying professional 'Welshman' who keeps bursting into 'Men of Harlech'?

 

[DronnieBlade]

And just for further evidence, in case you need any, Sharp has started 30 games without Hanson and scored 18 goals. His scoring record WITH Hanson is 1.25 games per goal. His record WITHOUT Hanson is 1.66 games per goal.

I'd also note that this is the 2nd time this season Sharp has gone 4 games without scoring. The other 4 were against Bury, Charlton, Walsall and Swindon. Was that a coincidence or not?

How did you dream up 8 goals in 9 games alongside Hanson ?

Are you very sure of this ?

UTB

Ps before you respond, I've done my homework and since Hanson arrived at the club it's a far less convincing 5 in 11 alongside Hanson (4 / 11 if you discount a penalty, which I haven't) rather than the more flattering, and inaccurate, 8 / 9. Tell me I'm wrong !

That evidence enough for you / and others ?

Lies Damn Lies and Bullshit made up to suit an Agenda

 

[LJBlade]

Wonderful!

If you are going all statistical on us, you may wish to consider the size your data population. It think you will find you don't have enough 'evidence' to make any statistically significant claims.

Come back here after he's played about 40 games with Hanson and then we can have a statistically valid discussion. Or not.

I did consider the size of the data population and i'm aware that it would most likely look different when Hanson and Sharp have played 40 games together. I was merely using the data that was available to point out that things might not be as bad as suggested.

My limited data is still stronger than the no data that DronnieBlade has provided

 

[DronnieBlade]

Since the arrival of Hanson we have become more flexible and less predictable. That will seem illogical to some; a ball up to Hanson's head seems very predictable doesn't it? However, it's the movement and positioning of other players that is the key to our flexibility. When the ball's in the air on route to Hanson, two central defenders are usually back-peddling and pre-occupied with judging what position to hold and when to time their challenge. I'm pretty sure in those moments they aren't too occupied by any run that Billy might be making, or where the hell Freeman might be for example. Billy pops up left flank this time, Freeman shows up attacking left-midfield another time. Defenders might be thinking "What the **** is he doing out there?" and fans might be thinking the same. I'm sure one or two Millwall players looked at each other and thought "Where the f*** did he come from!?" when Freeman drilled the ball home for his 10th league goal. Who gives a flying fart if Hanson or Billy doesn't get on the score sheet when we cruise though a routine don't-bother-to-shift-out-of-3rd-gear game like that! Let the opposition worry about stopping Billy guys, but we certainly don't need to worry - nor does Billy.

Clearly evident 2nd half last night when we stopped using our midfield and started using Hansons 50p head.

Dear oh fucking dear.

UTB

 

[Sean Thornton]

I wish we had someone who could score 20+ goals a season and not have any off days .. that would be just brilliant wouldn't it ..

Not as good as Billy scoring 26 with 6 to go AND having the odd off day.

Set your sights higher.

 

[DronnieBlade]

I did consider the size of the data population and i'm aware that it would most likely look different when Hanson and Sharp have played 40 games together. I was merely using the data that was available to point out that things might not be as bad as suggested.

My limited data is still stronger than the no data that DronnieBlade has provided

See #110.

I'm here all day so can wait for a response.

UTB

 

[Bladeian]

It's called sarcasm ... look it up

 

[LJBlade]

How did you dream up 8 goals in 9 games alongside Hanson ?

Are you very sure of this ?

UTB

Ps before you respond, I've done my homework and since Hanson arrived at the club it's a far less convincing 5 in 11 alongside Hanson (4 / 11 if you discount a penalty, which I haven't) rather than the more flattering, and inaccurate, 8 / 9. Tell me I'm wrong !

That evidence enough for you / and others ?

Lies Damn Lies and Bullshit made up to suit an Agenda

I've looked at games where both Sharp and Hanson have started together.

Games and goals: (only goals for Sharp)

AFC Wimbledon -1
Peterborough - 1
Scunthorpe - 1
Bolton - 2
Rochdale - 1
Oxford - 2
Charlton - 0
Oldham - 0
Millwall - 0

If you want to discount penalties then my With/Without stats actually look better. It's up to you.

Care to answer what the reason was when Sharp went 4 games without scoring earlier on in the season?

 

[DronnieBlade]

I've looked at games where both Sharp and Hanson have started together.

Games and goals: (only goals for Sharp)

AFC Wimbledon -1
Peterborough - 1
Scunthorpe - 1
Bolton - 2
Rochdale - 1
Oxford - 2
Charlton - 0
Oldham - 0
Millwall - 0

If you want to discount penalties then my With/Without stats actually look better. It's up to you.

Care to answer what the reason was when Sharp went 4 games without scoring earlier on in the season?

Whereas I've looked at games when they have both been on the pitch at the same time. So slightly different. Your way is 8/9 incl pens, mine is 5/11 including pens.

I would suggest Sharps lean spell earlier in the season is mostly (not all) down to a similar problem he had playing alongside Clarke. Same problem I have identified that seems lost on most alongside Hanson.

I'm not trying to immunise Sharp from criticism. All players go through lean periods, even the very very best. I do believe Sharp has enough credits to be shown a degree of slack though, given he has had lean spells and has still racked up more goals than anyone in the country.

Care to answer why our new golden boy has scored just once in 11 games ?

UTB

 

[Chezzy Blades]

Clearly evident 2nd half last night when we stopped using our midfield and started using Hansons 50p head.

Dear oh fucking dear.

UTB

I think there's valid points on both sides here.

Dronnie, I agree with you, and think a lot of others may too that Sharp isn't at his most effective alongside a big man, and as you've pointed out hasn't been throughout his career. His best spells have been at the side of a more mobile striker such as Keogh or Done, where he's the focal point of attack and finishes the chances. In recent times he's linked up very well with Lavery too, though they do have their off days.

That being said, I do think he can and has adapted to playing alongside Hanson since his arrival. I'm not sure if you blame Hanson directly for Sharp's scoring lull, as you've said once that you don't but now think he has a 50p head (I think he's a terrific header of the ball both in winning challenges and directing it). I haven't looked into stats between the partnerships, only what I've seen, and straight off the bat I can think of 2 extra points we won at Peterborough and 1 at home to Scunthorpe as a direct result of Sharp getting on the end of a Hanson header or aerial challenge.

Although Sharp isn't as prolific alongside Hanson as other strikers, he does still score goals, and we're winning games albeit goals are coming from different areas. I personally don't care who scores if we're winning games, and am not at all bothered by the fact Sharp didn't score last night. I think we'd have struggled without a big man last night, and I'm sure if we'd lost 2-1 conceding from 2 corners without Hanson in the team but Sharp scored up the other end as a result of playing alongside Done, there'd be much more unhappiness on here today than a 2-0 with no Sharp goal.

If we purely wanted Sharp to score as many goals as possible then I totally agree playing alongside Hanson isn't the way to achieve that goal, however I don't think it can be ignored that since Hanson has arrived we're now unbeaten in 11 games. I think at least 2 or 3 of those games are because we've had the option to either wear the opposition down with Hanson or bring him on to give ourselves an out ball of different dimension our play if the opposition are fit enough to run us down for the majority of games. On the flip side you can look at the Oxford game where Hanson and Sharp together were totally ineffective so CW pulled Hanson at half time, brought Lavery on and we came back to win with Sharp scoring twice.

I don't think we need to worry too much if Sharp and Hanson are on the books next season, as I fully expect them to be, as I think as part of a group of 4 or 5 strikers they all give us something depending on the type of game or opposition. Yes, Sharp might not get anywhere near 30 or even 20 goals, but as long as we keep progressing I don't care who's sticking the ball in the net.

 

[PokerBlade]

I'm just going to say the following about Sharp's scoring rate with Hanson: lol sample size

 

[sitwell]

Whereas I've looked at games when they have both been on the pitch at the same time. So slightly different. Your way is 8/9 incl pens, mine is 5/11 including pens.

I would suggest Sharps lean spell earlier in the season is mostly (not all) down to a similar problem he had playing alongside Clarke. Same problem I have identified that seems lost on most alongside Hanson.

I'm not trying to immunise Sharp from criticism. All players go through lean periods, even the very very best. I do believe Sharp has enough credits to be shown a degree of slack though, given he has had lean spells and has still racked up more goals than anyone in the country.

Care to answer why our new golden boy has scored just once in 11 games ?

UTB

So you don't recall the numerous games where we struggled to score and break down an 11 man defence at home. I know its a good few months ago with your selective memory. I presume Big Jim gave your Mrs a better time or something ?