Behind the Scenes troubles?

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robbiez666 said:
Maybe, but I'd still not start him. Did ok when he came on but that's against tiring players. Seems a risk to start a player who had to go off a few days earlier for cramp against an opposition who bullied him last time.
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Remind me when Luton away was. If you haven’t seen substantial improvement in the boy you can’t be watching.

Can’t last a game? Err, Fleck. Norwood recently? Are you down in the dumps when either of the two Man. City lads start, bemoaning the fact that our regular pedestrian three in midfield won’t be sending cutting passes to our forwards? Watching McBurnie battle two defenders in the air or our most potent threat having to come into his own half to get the ball. If we can’t blame the players, there’s just one answer And on yesterdays shitshow both on the pitch and in front of a microphone there’s only one man to blame, and it ain’t the owner.
 
JackSUFC said:
That’s a shocking mentality to have. No way are they thinking like that surely. If they are then they’re in the wrong profession.

If they’re good enough to get to the Premier League, they should be backing themselves to play in it. They should be fighting tooth and nail for it.
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I don’t disagree with that completely, the only thing for me is that there’s a big difference between being good enough to get there and good enough to play there. I don’t think most of them are good enough, but out of interest who would you say are good enough to play in the prem based on the performance after the World Cup. There’s a few for me that could possibly do a job, but I’m not sure, for example, how many of our players would even get in the current Southampton or Leeds teams.
 
robbiez666 said:
Players with no job come summer and no guarantees or a new contract. That must play on those players' minds. They have families and bills and yes they get paid much more than normal people but their career ends much, much earlier.

If you watch PH's post-match presser, he's asked about training in these conditions and he takes an extra moment to think before answering. I wonder how bad our indoor training facilities are. While only a few teams will have been hindered by the snow, I wonder what we've been able to do.

We were ridiculously flat yesterday. Not just a bad performance but the energy, effort and intensity were all at a pre-season level.

I do wonder whether there's a lot more going on behind the scenes that is hampering our performances. They look much less happy on the pitch. Obviously that might be down to results but there doesn't seem to be the happy dressing room we've had most of the season.

Something feels wrong, but I just can't put my finger on it. It's like the players and the manager are all under a cloud, despite still being second.
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Exactly.

Norwood, for instance, is one of the players out of contract isn't he. He's had more mishit passes in the last two or three games than in the past two or three seasons (ok, relegation season excepted), that doesn't come out of nowhere.

Watching the players yesterday I felt sympathy as much as anything - which isn't great.

Teams can still perform miracles when it's chaos behind the scenes (ironically didn't Wilder do this at Northampton, for instance), but I'd imagine it makes an incredibly difficult job - promotion to the "Biggest League in the World" - near on impossible.

If this manager and these players can pull it off from here it'll be some achievement.
 
Diamondlife said:
I don’t think most of them are good enough, but out of interest who would you say are good enough to play in the prem based on the performance after the World Cup. There’s a few for me that could possibly do a job, but I’m not sure, for example, how many of our players would even get in the current Southampton or Leeds teams.
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Based on current from, none of them!

Obviously if we went up we’d need big investment in the squad to give us even half a chance of survival. Whether we’d be afforded that is another question.

For me the few most likely to be able to hold their own week in, week out are:

Bogle - Showed bits during the Covid season whilst playing in a poor side. Yesterday was probably his worst performance in a United shirt though.

Ahmedhodzic - Looked every bit a PL player earlier on this season but has dropped off since his illness. Maybe he’ll come back better after a pre-season bulking up.

Berge - Some will laugh but the lad does have some ability when he wants to show it. Would need a new midfield around him and no defensive responsibilities though.

Ndiaye - Goes without saying when he’s on it.

McBurnie - He’s been one of our most consistent players this season and for spells didn’t look out of place at that level during his first season with us.

Then a couple of players who’ve been there before like Baldock, Egan, Norwood would be useful. I’d include Doyle and McAtee but they’re not ours.
 
The ownership issues obviously can't be helping.

But it doesn't change the fact we still have one of the biggest budgets in the league and have been massively underperforming for some time.

The narrow wins have been papering over the cracks.
 
JackSUFC said:
Based on current from, none of them!

Obviously if we went up we’d need big investment in the squad to give us even half a chance of survival. Whether we’d be afforded that is another question.

For me the few most likely to be able to hold their own week in, week out are:

Bogle - Showed bits during the Covid season whilst playing in a poor side. Yesterday was probably his worst performance in a United shirt though.

Ahmedhodzic - Looked every bit a PL player earlier on this season but has dropped off since his illness. Maybe he’ll come back better after a pre-season bulking up.

Berge - Some will laugh but the lad does have some ability when he wants to show it. Would need a new midfield around him and no defensive responsibilities though.

Ndiaye - Goes without saying when he’s on it.

McBurnie - He’s been one of our most consistent players this season and for spells didn’t look out of place at that level during his first season with us.

Then a couple of players who’ve been there before like Baldock, Egan, Norwood would be useful. I’d include Doyle and McAtee but they’re not ours.
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I’d agree with that Jack. In general I think everyone has been off it the last few weeks but if they do that at this level can they step up. Yesterday was an example of what they do in training and what we see on a match day being completely at odds. Hecky must choose a team based on what he’s seeing but it’s not what we see in match play, playing Fleck for example. I’d play with Furious to add a bit of tempo, I like the Manchester lads as they like to get stuck in, I like Berger but like you say in a more attacking role as he has defensive frailties. its a pity RND is still out as he could do a job, jury’s still out on Brewster, McBurnie is frustrating at times but he’s really grown on me this season, he’s also the best header of the ball we’ve got at the club. In all of that, it’s possibly a scaled down Forest type rebuilding job that’s needed, in the event of going up, and maybe also if we stay down🤷🏻‍♂️
 
robbiez666 said:
I'm loving how so many of our fans think we should have started the guy who had the worst game of his career in the reverse fixture and had to come off with cramp in the last game which was 3 days before Luton. I would question a manager who did that, certainly.
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You're just sleepwalking mate.

Our problem is bad, stagnant management and a favouring of players who simply aren't getting it done. Coupled with a current ethos which isn't getting anything from the team.

Can our midfield get much worse?!

You seem to be looking desperately for some other reason why were being shite. Sometimes it's just the obvious mate. In my opinion obviously, I know I just "don't know how football works"
 
Diamondlife said:
Can’t be easy for 95% of the players who will lose their jobs if we go up. They’re not good enough for the prem, so their reward for their success would be to have to find another club, move house, change kids schools etc but don’t go up and there’s a chance nothing changes for them. Not sure they’ll all think like that but it’d definitely mess with my head if I knew I wasn’t good enough or too old for a higher level of football and was comfortable where I was for another season. Lots of counter arguments to this but it’s got to affect a few and that could be enough to lose any tight games, just my thoughts anyway 🤷🏻‍♂️
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All players know that they will have to move on at some point and deal with all the hassle that comes with it. I expect that the prospect of a promotion on their CV would dwarf any concerns anyway, along with any potential bonuses that come with it - although I wouldn't be surprised if said bonuses are in doubt at the moment due to the financial situation.
 
Diamondlife said:
Can’t be easy for 95% of the players who will lose their jobs if we go up. They’re not good enough for the prem, so their reward for their success would be to have to find another club, move house, change kids schools etc but don’t go up and there’s a chance nothing changes for them. Not sure they’ll all think like that but it’d definitely mess with my head if I knew I wasn’t good enough or too old for a higher level of football and was comfortable where I was for another season. Lots of counter arguments to this but it’s got to affect a few and that could be enough to lose any tight games, just my thoughts anyway 🤷🏻‍♂️
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This cannot be how professional footballers think.

They will all have promotion bonuses and pay rises built I to their contracts so it's a huge financial boost if we get promoted.

They'll also have a promotion on their CV so even if they leave United they are more marketable.
 
robbiez666 said:
We've had two crackpot takeovers this season and are still under embargo.

It has been eluded to now and then over the course of the season but I do wonder how much the behind the scenes nonsense has impacted on our form this year.

At the start of the season, we had to pay for a new training pitch out of the transfer budget.

The inability to replace Khadra or bring anyone in this January.

The number of injuries insufficient training facilities have caused, either directly or indirectly.

The lack over undersoil heating. The lack of Sky (it's easy to say something along the lines of them being millionaires and it shouldn't impact on their performance but these are young lads and won't think of it like that). etc etc.

Players with no job come summer and no guarantees or a new contract. That must play on those players' minds. They have families and bills and yes they get paid much more than normal people but their career ends much, much earlier.

If you watch PH's post-match presser, he's asked about training in these conditions and he takes an extra moment to think before answering. I wonder how bad our indoor training facilities are. While only a few teams will have been hindered by the snow, I wonder what we've been able to do.

We were ridiculously flat yesterday. Not just a bad performance but the energy, effort and intensity were all at a pre-season level.

I do wonder whether there's a lot more going on behind the scenes that is hampering our performances. They look much less happy on the pitch. Obviously that might be down to results but there doesn't seem to be the happy dressing room we've had most of the season.

Something feels wrong, but I just can't put my finger on it. It's like the players and the manager are all under a cloud, despite still being second.
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Think you're giving the players an easy out.

For what they're paid each week, then to down tools if things aren't ideal behind the scenes is disgusting.

We're in a cost of living crisis, what about those fans who turned up in the freezing cold, hand over their hard earned cash voluntarily, travel up and down the country every week to watch these players perform.

Should we just be like oh they don't have all the bells and whistles like sky tv, it's ok then... Absolutely not!
 
Rewind 3 years look at where we was. Fast forward 3 years look at where we’ll be. Football changes very quick unfortunately.
 
blade too long said:
ther whole demeanour of the performance yesterday smacked of indifference which is quite shocking
we should have been buzzing and alive with Adrenalin but it was at best listless and at times alarming
Hecky and McCall need to earn their corn lifting this air of dejectioñ for Sunderland and the cup game
win those 2 and we can forge ahead , play like yesterday again and we blow a good season

sharp was looking more 48 than 38 and Fleck looked like he needs 6 month in a health spa
we cant dismiss that Luton play away very well but us at full tilt should have beaten them, but we never raised our lance to combat level
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Said this so many times. but when a team has quick, speedy runners Heck'y puts out an aging but experienced team, and every time they just run through us like we don't have a midfield, (we don't) that's what we have seen recently and yesterday was a typical example, Luton weren't great but they played to their strenghs and highlighted our weakness' - and Heck'y doesn't see it!! - yesterdays performance was on him!
 



robbiez666 said:
We were ridiculously flat yesterday. Not just a bad performance but the energy, effort and intensity were all at a pre-season level.

I do wonder whether there's a lot more going on behind the scenes that is hampering our performances. They look much less happy on the pitch. Obviously that might be down to results but there doesn't seem to be the happy dressing room we've had most of the season.

Something feels wrong, but I just can't put my finger on it. It's like the players and the manager are all under a cloud, despite still being second.
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I think the many pointing out how bloody slow and lacking fire the midfield is, and that the lack of spark comes from that are right. I think those pointing the finger at Heckingbottom for not inspiring personally or through tactics probably are too.

But aye I'd agree that it's exactly what I was thinking after yesterday- they looked so bloody miserable and resigned that it worried me they know something we don't yet.
 
I have 0 evidence to back this up, but I think Newcastle’s Saudi takeover has had a massive impact on the prince’s ability, or capability, to contribute anything significant to the club.
 
Willglynning said:
I have 0 evidence to back this up, but I think Newcastle’s Saudi takeover has had a massive impact on the prince’s ability, or capability, to contribute anything significant to the club.
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I'm reasonably sure this was actually reported at the time
 
Players with no job come summer and no guarantees or a new contract. That must play on those players' minds. They have families and bills and yes they get paid much more than normal people but their career ends much, much earlier.


I’m sorry but I cannot get on board with sentiments like this. The lowest paid players in the first team are on a wage of around £10,000 per week. £40,000 per MONTH. Then you get the likes of Brewster and Berge who are on a ‘reported’ £50,000 per week. Let that sink in.

The players are not your ordinary workers who are facing the threat of financial hardship when their contracts expire at the end of the season. They are wealthy footballers that will move onto other clubs if we do not renew their contracts.

It is not a big ask for some of them to pull their finger out and stop taking the piss, coasting through games.
 
robbiez666 said:
We've had two crackpot takeovers this season and are still under embargo.

It has been eluded to now and then over the course of the season but I do wonder how much the behind the scenes nonsense has impacted on our form this year.

At the start of the season, we had to pay for a new training pitch out of the transfer budget.

The inability to replace Khadra or bring anyone in this January.

The number of injuries insufficient training facilities have caused, either directly or indirectly.

The lack over undersoil heating. The lack of Sky (it's easy to say something along the lines of them being millionaires and it shouldn't impact on their performance but these are young lads and won't think of it like that). etc etc.

Players with no job come summer and no guarantees or a new contract. That must play on those players' minds. They have families and bills and yes they get paid much more than normal people but their career ends much, much earlier.

If you watch PH's post-match presser, he's asked about training in these conditions and he takes an extra moment to think before answering. I wonder how bad our indoor training facilities are. While only a few teams will have been hindered by the snow, I wonder what we've been able to do.

We were ridiculously flat yesterday. Not just a bad performance but the energy, effort and intensity were all at a pre-season level.

I do wonder whether there's a lot more going on behind the scenes that is hampering our performances. They look much less happy on the pitch. Obviously that might be down to results but there doesn't seem to be the happy dressing room we've had most of the season.

Something feels wrong, but I just can't put my finger on it. It's like the players and the manager are all under a cloud, despite still being second.
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Not surprising really. As well as the football, they have to do an hour a day as customer support for Tingo Mobile & a further hour on a flight simulator training up for Tingo Airlines. Egan is of course excused as he drinks Guinness.
 
Mag-83 said:
Players with no job come summer and no guarantees or a new contract. That must play on those players' minds. They have families and bills and yes they get paid much more than normal people but their career ends much, much earlier.


I’m sorry but I cannot get on board with sentiments like this. The lowest paid players in the first team are on a wage of around £10,000 per week. £40,000 per MONTH. Then you get the likes of Brewster and Berge who are on a ‘reported’ £50,000 per week. Let that sink in.

The players are not your ordinary workers who are facing the threat of financial hardship when their contracts expire at the end of the season. They are wealthy footballers that will move onto other clubs if we do not renew their contracts.

It is not a big ask for some of them to pull their finger out and stop taking the piss, coasting through games.
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What they earn is immaterial really, because they won't think the same way as you. I'm not saying that's right, it just is. If everyone in your line of work earns x then X becomes just a norm. You spend relative to your earnings. The clever ones save but many don't. And when football finishes, there's the void.
 
robbiez666 said:
What they earn is immaterial really, because they won't think the same way as you. I'm not saying that's right, it just is. If everyone in your line of work earns x then X becomes just a norm. You spend relative to your earnings. The clever ones save but many don't. And when football finishes, there's the void.
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When our club is paying fortunes to players that show no hunger or desire as was clearly demonstrated on Saturday, then their massive wages are not immaterial. They should be performing individually a lot better than they are.
 
Diamondlife said:
Can’t be easy for 95% of the players who will lose their jobs if we go up. They’re not good enough for the prem, so their reward for their success would be to have to find another club, move house, change kids schools etc but don’t go up and there’s a chance nothing changes for them. Not sure they’ll all think like that but it’d definitely mess with my head if I knew I wasn’t good enough or too old for a higher level of football and was comfortable where I was for another season. Lots of counter arguments to this but it’s got to affect a few and that could be enough to lose any tight games, just my thoughts anyway 🤷🏻‍♂️
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To be honest, I hate, loathe and detest the Premier league. But I still want us to get promoted. In a similar vein, most of the lads know they’d be jettisoned if we got promoted, but they are professionals and would always want to win promotion.
 
Sean Thornton said:
Clearly this “cloud” wasn’t there against Spurs which is odd seeing as the chance of PL football is destroyed by it.
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Fair point but I’d argue Spurs didn’t set up like most championship sides against us.

There’s no doubt that the players and staff know more than they are letting on

This will impact on the whole infrastructure from manager down to coaches and down to players

Maybe the responsibility on their shoulders promotion or the Clubs going down the pan is too much

Performance levels ( not results at first) dropped off the Cliff around the time of the announcement of the sale of the club

Coincidence maybe ?
 
ATL Recs said:
Fair point but I’d argue Spurs didn’t set up like most championship sides against us.

There’s no doubt that the players and staff know more than they are letting on

This will impact on the whole infrastructure from manager down to coaches and down to players

Maybe the responsibility on their shoulders promotion or the Clubs going down the pan is too much

Performance levels ( not results at first) dropped off the Cliff around the time of the announcement of the sale of the club

Coincidence maybe ?
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There was an announcement that a bid had been accepted around June 22, and it was no secret that HRH had put the club up for sale.,This didn’t stop the team being 11 points ahead of third with a game in hand.

Speaking to someone inside the club a month ago l was told the camaraderie within the squad and there belief in each other was immense. They looked gutted at full time yet again. Whatever is wrong, and something clearly is, no one can pretend we are approaching games differently since January. And it isn’t working.
 



MobileBlade said:
Which is a fallacy because under the EFL agreement with Sky they actaully get it for free at the ground and training ground.
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The sky getting cut off must be a load of bollocks then. It was a little more believable than the story of there being no hot water there.
 
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