Beerschot link up

[Revolution]

The accounts are more likely to tell the story more accurately than WSC. The Chinese operation was discontinued in 2009 and disposed of, l think in 2010 or 2011.
KW was sold in July 2009, no mention in the 2010 accounts of the £2m ( which is a new one on me). In fact, looking at the discontinued operations relating to Chengdu in 2010 actually show more turnover than costs, prior to the share write off referred to in the 2009 accounts. From memory

I was told by a director that our original investment in Chengdu cost about US$100,000. It was supposedly a low cost operation . 2 million sounds way out of proportion.

I was also told that Li Tie’s wages etc cost the club nothing as it was all paid by someone in the PRC.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I was told by a director that our original investment in Chengdu cost about US$100,000. It was supposedly a low cost operation . 2 million sounds way out of proportion.

I was also told that Li Tie’s wages etc cost the club nothing as it was all paid by someone in the PRC.

Iirc l think the overall cost was around £600k.

Had you ever heard of the Kyle W money going there?

 

[Revolution]

Iirc l think the overall cost was around £600k.

Had you ever heard of the Kyle W money going there?

That sounds about right given the start up cost.

No, that was a new one on me, though the WSC article does quote the accounts.

 

[Champagneblade]

The accounts are more likely to tell the story more accurately than WSC. The Chinese operation was discontinued in 2009 and disposed of, l think in 2010 or 2011.
KW was sold in July 2009, no mention in the 2010 accounts of the £2m ( which is a new one on me). In fact, looking at the discontinued operations relating to Chengdu in 2010 actually show more turnover than costs, prior to the share write off referred to in the 2009 accounts. From memory

Was just one of the first things I could google because it was so long ago. I certainly remember McCabe admitting it in a Radio Sheffield interview.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Was just one of the first things I could google because it was so long ago. I certainly remember McCabe admitting it in a Radio Sheffield interview.

If after selling the two Kyles on the cheap AND then admitting to giving it to Chengdu I’m positive a lot more of us would remember it. There would have been uproar.

 

[Champagneblade]

If after selling the two Kyles on the cheap AND then admitting to giving it to Chengdu I’m positive a lot more of us would remember it. There would have been uproar.

It was only made public afterwards though, not at the same time and there were less forums and no twitter. Maybe others can remember. There was no social media then really as we know it now.

I remember vividly where I was sat when McCabe mentioned it. It was all quite blasé. I remember the same sort of attitude when Horsfield was bought. Terry Robinson admitted in Wales Jubilee club that it was his fault and Warnock wanted one but not both (as well as Akinbiyi). The attitude then was "it's ok I could get the money back tomorrow."

Same with McCabe. The logic was that it was short term and we'd get our money back eventually.

 

[Sean Thornton]

It was only made public afterwards though, not at the same time and there were less forums and no twitter. Maybe others can remember. There was no social media then really as we know it now.

I remember vividly where I was sat when I McCabe mentioned it. It was all quite blasé. I remember the same sort of attitude when Horsfield was bought. Terry Robinson admitted in Wales Jubilee club that it was his fault and Warnock wanted one but not both (as well as Akinbiyi). The attitude then was "it's ok I could get the money back tomorrow."

Same with McCabe. The logic was that it was short term and we'd get our money back eventually.

It’s not in the accounts that l can see. In fact the only mention of anything like it on the forum is this, which is not the same thing at all.

EddieColquhoun​

Well-Known Member​

• Sep 16, 2020
• Add bookmark
• #97

In the McCabe days we never got £100m from the Premier League

In the McCabe days the transfer fee for Kyle Walker matched our 12 month loss on Chengdu Blades.


The £2m loss looks like it was initially a Lenners invention, as usual with nothing whatsoever to back it up.

 

[Champagneblade]

It’s not in the accounts that l can see. In fact the only mention of anything like it on the forum is this, which is not the same thing at all.

EddieColquhoun​

Well-Known Member​

• Sep 16, 2020
• Add bookmark
• #97

In the McCabe days the transfer fee for Kyle Walker matched our 12 month loss on Chengdu Blades.


The £2m loss looks like it was initially a Lenners invention, as usual with nothing whatsoever to back it up.

Honestly too far back for me to rummage. It wasn't something I recall from having read it, it was something McCabe said in either a fan forum or interview.

I think comments on the bladesunited forum at the time may have been more along the lines that when property was to be had then it was Scarborough involved, when it wasn't then it was United with the insinuation being he made money out of property but the football side was more risky.

I don't believe when Saturday comes, the reference I googled just plucked it from thin air. It must have had some substance at the time. Not something I'd recall hearing when sat in my living room in Asia and then printed in a publication completely unrelated. Now what the figure was, that I can't exactly recall.

Either way, we were I suppose head of our time in a sense but not sure if we are a big enough name to pull this off though I'd argue we are bigger than Watford as a name though their arrangement is quite unique to the owner.

 

[Champagneblade]

So another couple of games to update on as the season in Belgium almost is at an end for Beerschot whilst Chateauroux find themselves in the mix at least.

Beerschot's final two fixtures against second and first place will only serve to emphasize the work still to be done. The second division in Belgium is not one that has a great deal of credibility with non-promotable 'B' teams being introduced next season. Not a place Beerschot wants to be hanging around in.

For the penultimate fixture of the season they entertained Club Brugge who sit second. Once more Beerschot were without the two most senior keepers and Lejoly was in goal. I'd be surprised if he was retained; seems to be their Jake Eastwood.

Ling up 3-4-1-2, Radic, Lemos and Van den Bergh made up a back three. A defensive midfield 4 of Dom, Rigo, Sanusi and Bourdain with Holzhauser given the no 10 role and Shankland and Suzuki up front.

They lost 3-1. The only goal was a Shankland penalty as a consolation. Probably worth noting that the final goal was scored by Charles De Ketelaere. He seems to be the next big thing coming out of Belgium. Since the season was dead in the water I didn't watch the match, but will leave the extended highlights here for reference.



There is quite a good article by Koen Frans which I will paste later who explains the likely upheaval in the summer.

Still hoping for a pot of gold at the end of the Rainbow are Chateauroux.

A hugely disappointing defeat to bottom club Boulogne left their season teetering on the brink. Welcome back to back wins away at Chambly 2-0 and at home to Red Star 4-2 has put them in 5th on 48 points after 29 matches in an 18 team league, so 5 left. In front of them sit Villefranche and Concarneau who sit 2 ahead with the latter having played one game less at time of writing. Stade Laval are pretty much home on 59 points and Annecy sit second on 54. Chateauroux have still to play both Annecy (home) and Villefranche (away) so they have a big say in their own destiny even though they still rely on results a little.

Their presence gets more interesting if they can get back up to Ligue Two level in terms of looking at emerging players. The top scorer is Thomas Robinet (which means tap in French!) With a very respectable 17 in 28. He is 25 already and was at Stade Laval before. One emerging talent is 20 year old Siriné Doucouré. He's started to be given a starting berth up front. He's got 2 in 11 appearances, though that is just 3 starts and 345 minutes of play. At 1m93 he has development potential and was the scorer of the second goal vs Red Star. I'll post the link when the highlights come out.

As an aside, it looks a very nice place, one I'm not overly familiar with, but sharing the video, it's in French but not essential to understand given the images on display:

 

[Nedski]

Match abandoned 83 minutes in to the game with the league leaders, which appears to be caused by violence in the Beerschot end. They were playing out an impressive 0-0 with Coulibaly seemingly having a decent game.

 

[PurpleRain]

Match abandoned 83 minutes in to the game with the league leaders, which appears to be caused by violence in the Beerschot end. They were playing out an impressive 0-0 with Coulibaly seemingly having a decent game.

Frustrations at the end of a horror season took over tonight.

 

[YorkBlade]

Frustrations at the end of a horror season took over tonight.

This sounds awful, what exactly happened?

Is the anger directed at the board?

 

[Champagneblade]

Beerschot and Union unanimously: "It is just sad that families with crying children have to go through this"

The misbehavior of the Beerschot supporters during the match against Union resulted in a minor end to the regular football season. One last appearance by Beerschot at the highest level turned into a nightmare. Joren Dom has a hard time with that: "This should absolutely not be allowed."

"I have one word for this: sin", a frustrated Joren Dom responds after the shortened game.

"We wanted to show what we are capable of again and did our best for 82 minutes. For many boys it was also the last game for Beerschot. That something like this should happen is absolutely not allowed."

Beerschot leaves 1A with shame on his cheeks. But what's worse: what should have been a wonderful football evening for the Union fans will forever remain a bad memory of the Kiel team.

"We are known for our stadium, where there is always a party atmosphere," says Felice Mazzu. "It is just sad that families with crying children now have to go through this."

Dom agrees. "The Union supporters are the sweetest supporters out there. They do not deserve this, although the action of our supporters is of course not against them."

"After all the problems the club has had this season, I can understand that our supporters are frustrated. But ventilating in this way is never good. We wanted to finish this game in a nice way, but we were not even allowed to do that." . It totally encompasses our season."

"Now what?" is the question that burns on everyone's lips. Can Union already write 3 extra points behind its name, or should it wait a little longer?

"I can't imagine not winning the match," Mazzu said. "But in Belgium there are always surprises. Still, I don't see how we wouldn't get the victory after everything that happened here."

Dante Vanzeir assists his coach: “It's not up to me to judge the situation, but I'm sorry. The decision will follow in the coming days. There are enough CCTV footage to handle the situation."

Will Union start the Champions' Play-off with a 2 or 3 point lead? The leader will have to exercise some patience.

 

[Champagneblade]

Potted history of Beerschot (cobbled from Wikipedia):

1899 Founded
1921-39 7 times Belgium Champions.
1971-79 2 times Belgium Cup winners.
1997 Belgium Cup winners.
1999 Dissolved due to financial problems whilst in 3rd division. Merged with Germinal Ekeren who were a 1st division club.
2005 Belgium Cup winners.
2013 Dissolved, merged with KFCO Wilrijk to continue.
2013/14 Belgium Provincial winners 2014/15 Fourth division Champions
2015/16 Third division Champions
2016/17 1st Amateur League Champion
2017/18 finished 3rd. Lost in end of season play offs.
2018 HRH arrives
2018/19 finished 2nd. Lost in end of season play offs.
2019 Name change to just Beerschot
2019/20 finished 5th. Promoted in end of season play offs.
2020/21 finished 9th in Jupiler League.
2021/22 relegated last in Jupiler League.

So you can see where the issue of reality vs expectation will hit bumps in the road.

On one hand, fans see a club that historically won 7 league titles (albeit 2 iterations ago and 80 years back) and 4 times Belgium Cup winners (through 2 prior iterations). The latest iteration raced through the leagues due to the large fan base by Belgium standards that Beerschot brings. Also the Board made the decision to sell Tissoudali, one of Beerschot's most influential players in January 2021 for 750k as he could leave for nothing in the summer (this season 25 goals, 8 assists in 46 overall games for Gent). This coincided with Hector Lozado leaving for MLS, the manager. The manager hasn't been well replaced and the perception is that neither has the player. As an outsider, football fan but also someone who works in finance, I can see both sides to the latter predicament, though it also seems if they'd been quicker to offer a deal he may have stayed (thought we don't know the $ requested). There is also the perception that the recruitment was poor, misplaced or not enough.

On the other hand, from the owners perspective, here is a club that has twice been declared bankrupt in the past 23 years. Clearly something has to be done to address sustainability. Presently it has modest training facilities and a ground it doesn't own. Already building blocks are in place for a new €7m training facility, jointly helped by local grants. Aside from the decisive issue of Tissoudali, in 20/21 they spent €3m on 2 strikers (Eleke and Suzuki), a million euros on the defence in Radic and Van den Bergh and brought in Coulibaly, selling nobody else of significance. This past season, they spent €1.2m on Shankland, €700k on a young Greek centre half Konstantopoulos, €150k on attacking midfielder Vaca and €200k on lesser spotted left winger Krekovic and a few loans including one former La Liga player, Lemos and de Smet from Ligue 1 Reims. The strikers just haven't come off, though Shankland has improved.

From the Board's side, it's not as if they went in and asset stripped. It's not as if they went in and spent no cash and they probably would argue better to lose Tissoudali for €750k than for nothing. From 2013, the reformation, the most they had spent was €15k on a player until the Prince arrived.

Like with all things what goes on the field overshadows most things or enhances them.

The problem is also that since the days of Beerschot winning leagues or cups, the face of Belgium football has changed. Look at the teams (order by gate size):

1. Club Brugge (21k, pos 2nd)
2. Standard Liege (17k, 14th)
3. Gent (17k, 3rd)
4. Anderlecht (16.5k, 3rd)
5. Genk (14k, 5th)
6. Royal Antwerp (13k, 6th)
7. Mechelen (10.5k, 7th)
8. Union Saint-Gilloise (7.5k, 1st); bankrolled Tony Bloom of Brighton
9. Sporting Charleroi (7.5k, 6th)
10. Zulte Waregem (7k, 16th)
11. Beerschot (6k, 18th)
12. OH Leuven (6k, 11th); owned by Leicester's King Power
13. Kortrijk (5.5k, 13th); owned by Vincent Tan, Berjaya, Cardiff City
14. Cercle Brugge (4k, 10th); owned by Monaco
15. Oostende (3.5k, 12th); owned by Chien Lee*
16. Sint-Truidense (3k, 9th); owned by DMM com, links to Japan
17. Eupen (2k, 15th); owned by same owners as PSG
18. Seraing (2k, 17th); satellite club of FC Metz (Ligue 1, for now!) and intriguing links to Doyen (remember them?)

Asser International Sports Law Blog | RFC Seraing at the Court of Arbitration for Sport: How FIFA’s TPO ban Survived (Again) EU Law Scrutiny

@font-face { font-family: "Courier New"; }@font-face { font-family: "Wingdings"; }@font-face {

www.asser.nl

*Chien Lee is part of Pacific group which has Kaiserslautern, AS Nancy, FC Thun, Den Bosch, Esbjerg, Oostende and Barnsley

Point being, Beerschot are (were) in a somewhat skewed league to prosper.

They are half way up in terms of support, but beneath them, the 7 smaller clubs' capabilities are falsely inflated as they are bankrolled by 3 Ligue 1 clubs, 1 PL club, 1 global conglomerate of 7 clubs with a Chinese billionaire as it's head, a Japanese Electronics and Forex trading company and one of Malaysia's richest men.

Belgium football is saturated with foreign influences so when you do spend almost 5m in your striking department, you can't have none of them really coming off.

In summary, the owner has a difficult task as the Belgium league is far more complex under the surface, but money on the team has to be better spent. Most fans have little interest in excuses no matter how valid they may be, though you can't condone expressing like yesterday.

 

[Champagneblade]

Gent 5th by the way. I see I had 3rd written twice.

 

[jono_t2000]

Gent 5th by the way. I see I had 3rd written twice.

I see you put in the old days Beerschot were well supported in Belgium terms.

But now there fan base is quite low in comparison.

Are we saying that Beerschot has stood still while other teams have grown around them?

 

[Champagneblade]

I see you put in the old days Beerschot were well supported in Belgium terms.

But now there fan base is quite low in comparison.

Are we saying that Beerschot has stood still while other teams have grown around them?

Maybe the way I phrased was misleading so allow me to clarify.

They are well supported by Belgium standards and this would have helped them rise up through the leagues. Worth noting the population of Belgium as per the 2021 census was just 11.52 million. The UK population stands at 68.2 million in the same year.

So the 6k they average is relative though might not sound much compared to the Championship but it makes them 11th best supported this season and it has been a lousy season too.

In the earlier days, they had to move ground to the Olympic stadium (capacity 12,700) to accomodate the supporter base. Imagine the same fan base supporting a restated club, having to start life in the 5th tier. Older records are sketchy but in 16/17 when they were in the third tier they were getting 6k as an average and the odd 10k gate whilst away they were playing teams who were getting no more than 2k and that's with the Beerschot fans swelling the numbers.

In the second tier in 17/18, home gates were 6,2k, whilst away from home opposition gates were than 4k.

When I did the reading it made me think a lot of Glasgow Rangers when they had to restart in the 4th tier in Scotland.

Looks like I made a bit of a mess of the placings above on a few others so included below:

And here's the Chateauroux goals I promised the other day.

 

[Grappler]

Maybe the way I phrased was misleading so allow me to clarify.

They are well supported by Belgium standards and this would have helped them rise up through the leagues. Worth noting the population of Belgium as per the 2021 census was just 11.52 million. The UK population stands at 68.2 million in the same year.

So the 6k they average is relative though might not sound much compared to the Championship but it makes them 11th best supported this season and it has been a lousy season too.

In the earlier days, they had to move ground to the Olympic stadium (capacity 12,700) to accomodate the supporter base. Imagine the same fan base supporting a restated club, having to start life in the 5th tier. Older records are sketchy but in 16/17 when they were in the third tier they were getting 6k as an average and the odd 10k gate whilst away they were playing teams who were getting no more than 2k and that's with the Beerschot fans swelling the numbers.

In the second tier in 17/18, home gates were 6,2k, whilst away from home opposition gates were than 4k.

When I did the reading it made me think a lot of Glasgow Rangers when they had to restart in the 4th tier in Scotland.

Looks like I made a bit of a mess of the placings above on a few others so included below:

And here's the Chateauroux goals I promised the other day.

He's our striker, he's our number 9
scoring goals in the red and white (numbers on the back)
he's not crap, and his French name means "Tap"
and he goes by the name of Robinet

Needs a bit of work, but I may send that to Chateroux, see if they can get their fans singing it.

 

[Champagneblade]

 

[metalblade]

Match abandoned 83 minutes in to the game with the league leaders, which appears to be caused by violence in the Beerschot end. They were playing out an impressive 0-0 with Coulibaly seemingly having a decent game.

So that's where the BBC went to .................... now Beerschot Business Crew

 

[PurpleRain]

After the riots at Union we have a new 3 game attendance ban and 50 k fine. Prince is quoted to reconsider his shareholding due to the fan trouble.

 

[Blacksea]

Moises Caicedo who was on loan at Beerschot is getting a starting place at Brighton recently,looks like he is playing LWB.

 

[Champagneblade]

After the riots at Union we have a new 3 game attendance ban and 50 k fine. Prince is quoted to reconsider his shareholding due to the fan trouble.

Not surprised. It was brain dead from the fans to do that. I don't know how much a ticket is but I don't see how helping the club to lose hundreds of thousands of euros through their moronic actions helps anyone.

Yes it's disappointing the team went down but that's sport. Better decisions need to be made going forwards but there's instances where Boards are asset stripping all over. It isn't the case here. They spent 5m on strikers in 2 years. They just didn't perform. Join the club! We've got one we paid 17m for who is now about 18 months without a league goal!

It seems the Prince is guilty of not being richer. But what about the other owners in the club? Last time I checked all the summer recruits from 2013 were either freebies or max 25k purchases before he arrived.

Recruitment has to improve, no doubt that has to be the number one lesson learned.

But the fans actions this year, including the first Antwerp derby have only hurt the club. Some players may move on because of those fans.

 

[Champagneblade]

Moises Caicedo who was on loan at Beerschot is getting a starting place at Brighton recently,looks like he is playing LWB.

Which is ironic because he played midfield for Beerschot and all season they lacked a decent left wing back!

 

[Blacksea]

Which is ironic because he played midfield for Beerschot and all season they lacked a decent left wing back!

He might be in midfield for Brighton,the 2 positions seem to merge for me,but he's definitely on the left and getting forward.Probably having a look at how he's shaping up for his development next season.

 

[PurpleRain]

Not surprised. It was brain dead from the fans to do that. I don't know how much a ticket is but I don't see how helping the club to lose hundreds of thousands of euros through their moronic actions helps anyone.

Yes it's disappointing the team went down but that's sport. Better decisions need to be made going forwards but there's instances where Boards are asset stripping all over. It isn't the case here. They spent 5m on strikers in 2 years. They just didn't perform. Join the club! We've got one we paid 17m for who is now about 18 months without a league goal!

It seems the Prince is guilty of not being richer. But what about the other owners in the club? Last time I checked all the summer recruits from 2013 were either freebies or max 25k purchases before he arrived.

Recruitment has to improve, no doubt that has to be the number one lesson learned.

But the fans actions this year, including the first Antwerp derby have only hurt the club. Some players may move on because of those fans.

It’s a form of protest to get the owners out. The owners won’t leave by themselves. It’s not only about the lack of money invested (yes 5 mio invested but 2nd lowest wage budget in the league tells more). It’s also about having no vision and no transparency and promises that were made that were broken. Having a DOF who runs the club from Dubai and who signed some really crap players and presented them as the new gods of football. Fans rather start all over again then continue this shit show.

 

[Champagneblade]

It’s a form of protest to get the owners out. The owners won’t leave by themselves. It’s not only about the lack of money invested (yes 5 mio invested but 2nd lowest wage budget in the league tells more). It’s also about having no vision and no transparency and promises that were made that were broken. Having a DOF who runs the club from Dubai and who signed some really crap players and presented them as the new gods of football. Fans rather start all over again then continue this shit show.

Are there many potential buyers lined up?

Yes I don't agree that having a DoF away from the club presents the right image thought I suppose 2 years of covid show that most admin jobs can be done remotely but that won't build trust with the local based fans.

I thought the training complex might get some fans onside.

What are the fans looking for to be onside apart from the Dubai aspect? More competitive wages but what else are they looking for assurance on?

I think the Prince has good intentions but I don't think it is easy to pull off running 5 clubs without a fair bit of help and money. He might have been better sticking to one or two.

 

[PurpleRain]

Are there many potential buyers lined up?

Yes I don't agree that having a DoF away from the club presents the right image thought I suppose 2 years of covid show that most admin jobs can be done remotely but that won't build trust with the local based fans.

I thought the training complex might get some fans onside.

What are the fans looking for to be onside apart from the Dubai aspect? More competitive wages but what else are they looking for assurance on?

I think the Prince has good intentions but I don't think it is easy to pull off running 5 clubs without a fair bit of help and money. He might have been better sticking to one or two.

Transparency and honost communication is the basis really. We haven’t got that. Instead we got a lot of false promises and blatant lies. The fans saved the club and fan income brought the club back to 2nd division football without outside help of investors. We had a manager who was top. We had fan participation. All that was thrown over board because some in the board got offered a good deal to sell the club and told that was the only way to get back in 1a. So getting and staying in 1a was the selling point to bring in the new owner. Now he is not delivering on that many want new ownership. Even if it means playing at a lower level. This owner has lost the trust of the fans and that’s causing a lot of aggression. I don’t think he realized that using our club as a play thing would result in mad fans causing riots and leading to massive fines and stadium bans. We have a group of fans who are prepared to do anything.

 

[Blade21]

Are there many potential buyers lined up?

Yes I don't agree that having a DoF away from the club presents the right image thought I suppose 2 years of covid show that most admin jobs can be done remotely but that won't build trust with the local based fans.

I thought the training complex might get some fans onside.

What are the fans looking for to be onside apart from the Dubai aspect? More competitive wages but what else are they looking for assurance on?

I think the Prince has good intentions but I don't think it is easy to pull off running 5 clubs without a fair bit of help and money. He might have been better sticking to one or two.

You think

 

[Wincobank S9 Blade]

Let’s hope we follow suit and plan for a better training facility