Basham Defence or Midfield?

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Hodgyman

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Do people think that it would be best to play Christiano Basham as the central defender with David Edgar and get a new, mobile, tough guy to play in the midfield or keep him in midfield and bring in a new central defender?

My opinion FWIW is that we should play Bash at the back as he will settle in there quicker with players he knows already around him. It might take a while for a new defender to gel with the others, which may prove costly.

What do you think?
 



so.................we have just come off the back of a few solid performances with Hammond, Basham and Coutts in centre midfield - solid, boring, a bit crude..................and WORKING.

We have pissed around for the first 3 months with Adkins trying this, trying that, him here, him there.............

FFS - lets leave it as it is - we don't LOSE games and we will move into contention in the top six.

Words just fail me at times.

UTB
 
At the back subject to more dominant performances than he has produced there. When Collins plays with Edgar it's Collins who has to work very hard and it's the same when he plays with Basham. Somebody has to take the main role of ball winner, particularly in the air.
 
so.................we have just come off the back of a few solid performances with Hammond, Basham and Coutts in centre midfield - solid, boring, a bit crude..................and WORKING.

We have pissed around for the first 3 months with Adkins trying this, trying that, him here, him there.............

FFS - lets leave it as it is - we don't LOSE games and we will move into contention in the top six.

Words just fail me at times.

UTB
With you on this one Fulwood change nothing in midfield.
A steady central defender would be top priority for me to partner Edgar.
 
He always looks better at Centre Back for me,with the game in front of him..in midfield he looks a bit headless chicken and his distribution,ball retention is poor..doesn't run with the ball even though he's capable of doing so..doesn't score enough goals,although he has good energy,makes some good tackles.Having said that about running with the ball,he brings the ball out well when he plays at CB,but can get caught out of position and often has to make great recovery tackles..For me,I think we could do better in both positions to be fair,and if we pair him with Edgar..is either of them comfortable as the left sided CB.
 
so.................we have just come off the back of a few solid performances with Hammond, Basham and Coutts in centre midfield - solid, boring, a bit crude..................and WORKING.

We have pissed around for the first 3 months with Adkins trying this, trying that, him here, him there.............

FFS - lets leave it as it is - we don't LOSE games and we will move into contention in the top six.

Words just fail me at times.

Would you suggest that we leave the team as it is then? Do you not thing that the team might improve with a better player in defence and another (new) player in midfield? By moving Basham back, the defence will improve and a good new midfielder ( we don't want anyone that will not improve the team) will make the midfield better too., improving two areas with just one addition. We can then use the available money to improve the squad elsewhere :target man, left back perhaps?
 
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so.................we have just come off the back of a few solid performances with Hammond, Basham and Coutts in centre midfield - solid, boring, a bit crude..................and WORKING.

We have pissed around for the first 3 months with Adkins trying this, trying that, him here, him there.............

FFS - lets leave it as it is - we don't LOSE games and we will move into contention in the top six.

Words just fail me at times.

UTB


If this is the midfield for the rest of the season ( and it includes Woolford as well by the way) I don't think many are confident it will see us through. If we use the maxim you seem to suggest " if it ain't broke don't fix it" then exactly the same applies to the defence which has lined up behind that midfield in those victories i.e. to include McEveley and Collins.

I fear this Back 9 won't see us through thick and thin for the remainder of the season, so it's valid to talk about where potential signings are targeted in the JTW and where Basham can find his best position for the team. There's the cover of central defence and midfield to think about, we don't have a long list of big, hard musclemen to cover suspensions and injuries for months, we've loads of those players who don't put a foot in. There's a great thread elsewhere which includes the question "do we sign for the new hard, tight approach or the more expansive approach?" Players from different segments of the market.

So I suspect it is an issue.
 
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Play whatever combination you want at centre back - perm any 2 from Collins, Edgar, Basham, even Brayford - and they're still not strong enough. Since we sold Maguire we have lacked a dominant centre half, and a season and half later we still lack a lynchpin at the back.

Urgently required one big b**tard centre half who takes no shit.
 
Do people think that it would be best to play Christiano Basham as the central defender with David Edgar and get a new, mobile, tough guy to play in the midfield or keep him in midfield and bring in a new central defender?

My opinion FWIW is that we should play Bash at the back as he will settle in there quicker with players he knows already around him. It might take a while for a new defender to gel with the others, which may prove costly.

What do you think?

I find Christiano Basham (like that!) to be somewhat of an enigma. Most seem to think he's a decent player but I'm not sure what this is based on. I imagine that NA has decided that he's not got the positional sense to play CB, after all he's still playing Collins there after the Shrewsbury debacle, so he's now reverted to what we are led to believe is his preferred position in midfield. Sadly, apart from the odd Cruyff turn, I've seen little to convince. Remember that scene from the Full Monty where they are auditioning, "So Chris, you don't pass, you don't tackle, you don't run with it, you don't score (often enough), forgive me for being rude, but what do you do?".

For me he just doesn't seem involved in the game enough and when he gets the ball, it appears he can't wait to get rid of it. Frustratingly, you feel that he does have the ability, perhaps just a lack of belief in himself.
 
Remember that scene from the Full Monty where they are auditioning, "So Chris, you don't pass, you don't tackle, you don't run with it, you don't score (often enough), forgive me for being rude, but what do you do?".

So you're saying that Bashams secret weapon is that he's got a 10 inch cock? :eek:
 



I seem to have lost my earlier response to Fulwood blade in mis-posting. I'll try again:

Do you really want to leave it as it is?
My point was that by moving Bash back to defence with Edgar we would be improving the defence. A new (& better) robust midfielder would improve the midfield, solving 2 problems with one addition. That would save money for a quality target man and left back
 
I seem to have lost my earlier response to Fulwood blade in mis-posting. I'll try again:

Do you really want to leave it as it is?
My point was that by moving Bash back to defence with Edgar we would be improving the defence. A new (& better) robust midfielder would improve the midfield, solving 2 problems with one addition. That would save money for a quality target man and left back

Have Basham and Edgar played together?

Despite limitations in other areas - and all our third division players have limitations - one thing Collins does bring is aerial dominance. Like a lot of old school CHs he's in his element when the ball is lumped forrads.

Are Edgar and Bash too similar?
 
I'd keep him in midfield. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see us sign Dan Burn in January so I see our team looking something like

-------------------Long

Brayford---Edgar--Burn--Harris

Coutts----Bahsam-Hammond-???????

--------------Sharp---Done


I think the left midfield spot is still up for grabs. We have Woolford there at the moment but I'm not convinced. JCR and Adams to come back into contention or the fish up top and Done is an option there. Flynn, Freeman and Scougall could also stake a claim. Alternatively, we might finally sign a Jamie Murphy replacement to play there.
 
Have Basham and Edgar played together?

Despite limitations in other areas - and all our third division players have limitations - one thing Collins does bring is aerial dominance. Like a lot of old school CHs he's in his element when the ball is lumped forrads.

Are Edgar and Bash too similar?

I share that concern WHF. I'm also not convinced how either would do as the left sided centre back.
 
Option 3 for me: utility/squad player.

Sadly Bash isn't influential enough in midfield (to make up for his technical limitations) & his horror show at the back v Shrewsbury just encapsulated his lack of leadership/dominance as a centre-half as far as I'm concerned. He's good in both positions, but not good enough to be first choice in either, long-term, IMO. Sad, because I like him.
 
Do people think that it would be best to play Christiano Basham as the central defender with David Edgar and get a new, mobile, tough guy to play in the midfield or keep him in midfield and bring in a new central defender?

My opinion FWIW is that we should play Bash at the back as he will settle in there quicker with players he knows already around him. It might take a while for a new defender to gel with the others, which may prove costly.

What do you think?
Centre back - no question.

Good centre back [who will get better there]. Average Midfielder.
 
The problem is, as noted above, neither Edgar nor Basham can play as the left sided centre half. It sounds ridiculous but it's true: defenders prefer one side. Collins, McEveley and Kieran Wallace are the three who are naturally left sided in the squad; Basham, Edgar and Kennedy are naturally right sided.

Shopping list for January item 1: a dominant left sided centre half.
 
I think he gets bullied too easily at c.h. in championship yes, but div 1 it's a no from me.
 
For the ones who even dared to watch the goal we conceded against Crewe away, should speak volumes as to why Basham should NOT play centre half.

There were three United players who all made stupid, rudimentary, schoolboy erros that led to that goal.

1) a player - Harris I believe let a Crewe player trap it on his right, swap to his left and plant a ball in the box. (Stood off - ball and player watching)
2) Basham gets a mediocre header on it and it drops in al lovely position inside the box for the Crewe player to hit a sweet shot
3) and watched schoolboy style by Hammond - ball watching is what it is called.

Have lost count of the number of people who want a big, strong, commanding Centre half - we have one in Edgar and the other one was going to be the lad from Fulham.

Adkins knows he won't play Basham at CH (except in a dire emergency) - if Basham is not good enough in CM ,that's fine - but please, lets chase a footballer who actually is a proper CH.

Unless I have misunderstood the greater majority on here - we need a proper CH - it just isn't Basham.

UTB
 
If this is the midfield for the rest of the season ( and it includes Woolford as well by the way) I don't think many are confident it will see us through. If we use the maxim you seem to suggest " if it ain't broke don't fix it" then exactly the same applies to the defence which has lined up behind that midfield in those victories i.e. to include McEveley and Collins.

I fear this Back 9 won't see us through thick and thin for the remainder of the season, so it's valid to talk about where potential signings are targeted in the JTW and where Basham can find his best position for the team. There's the cover of central defence and midfield to think about, we don't have a long list of big, hard musclemen to cover suspensions and injuries for months, we've loads of those players who don't put a foot in. There's a great thread elsewhere which includes the question "do we sign for the new hard, tight approach or the more expansive approach?" Players from different segments of the market.

So I suspect it is an issue.

It is an issue but I sometimes wonder what fans want on here.

Adkins has given football a chance with the players we had in a 442 - it has by his own admission not worked.

Shrewsbury was Adkins watershed - as down as I have ever heard a manager after a game.

It was Adkins, himself who said "I will solve this from within the squad" - he said that, not me, and it is what he as manager is now giving us.

Solid, boring, effective, tough, uncompromising.

The fans cannot have it both ways with what we have - open football and get stuffed in midfield or strong and boring.

I don't particularly like it, but at least I have some realism in what the manager is doing - it's actually quite easy to see what he is doing, which surprises me that others can't or won't and seem to want something that this squad can never ever deliver.

It is the only football on offer - that is why, until the JTW opens and we may see some movement - or perhaps not if players can't be moved on, so we might, just might have to have this boring, tough style for much of the season.

It is in my opinion that we would easily make the positions 3-6 with this style as we will not be dominated as in the first 3 months of the season. The BIG question is whether Adkins changes it again in the JTW - if he does we may just be back to experimentation again - quite a dilemma for Adkins.

It's quite simple - it's crap to watch, but it is effective.

We need points on the board - we are now getting them and as we get more points and hopefully get more confident and Adkins may then tweak the team a bit.

Where Adkins may change it - is Flynn in midfield (left or right) - that would actually make us more solid and would create a virtual "thou shalt not pass under any circumstances" and probably more boring than ever - but it's amazing what wins and points do for fans - in reality, once points start going on the board, they don't give much of a fuck to performances (sad but true).

UTB
 
It is an issue but I sometimes wonder what fans want on here.

Adkins has given football a chance with the players we had in a 442 - it has by his own admission not worked.

Shrewsbury was Adkins watershed - as down as I have ever heard a manager after a game.

It was Adkins, himself who said "I will solve this from within the squad" - he said that, not me, and it is what he as manager is now giving us.

Solid, boring, effective, tough, uncompromising.

The fans cannot have it both ways with what we have - open football and get stuffed in midfield or strong and boring.

I don't particularly like it, but at least I have some realism in what the manager is doing - it's actually quite easy to see what he is doing, which surprises me that others can't or won't and seem to want something that this squad can never ever deliver.

It is the only football on offer - that is why, until the JTW opens and we may see some movement - or perhaps not if players can't be moved on, so we might, just might have to have this boring, tough style for much of the season.

It is in my opinion that we would easily make the positions 3-6 with this style as we will not be dominated as in the first 3 months of the season. The BIG question is whether Adkins changes it again in the JTW - if he does we may just be back to experimentation again - quite a dilemma for Adkins.

It's quite simple - it's crap to watch, but it is effective.

We need points on the board - we are now getting them and as we get more points and hopefully get more confident and Adkins may then tweak the team a bit.

Where Adkins may change it - is Flynn in midfield (left or right) - that would actually make us more solid and would create a virtual "thou shalt not pass under any circumstances" and probably more boring than ever - but it's amazing what wins and points do for fans - in reality, once points start going on the board, they don't give much of a fuck to performances (sad but true).

UTB


Quality post, nothing like the previous one. I'd apologise to the O.P. if I were you. See below.



so.................we have just come off the back of a few solid performances with Hammond, Basham and Coutts in centre midfield - solid, boring, a bit crude..................and WORKING.

We have pissed around for the first 3 months with Adkins trying this, trying that, him here, him there.............

FFS - lets leave it as it is - we don't LOSE games and we will move into contention in the top six.

Words just fail me at times.

UTB


Very reasonable O.P.
 
Would you suggest that we leave the team as it is then? Do you not thing that the team might improve with a better player in defence and another (new) player in midfield? By moving Basham back, the defence will improve and a good new midfielder ( we don't want anyone that will not improve the team) will make the midfield better too., improving two areas with just one addition. We can then use the available money to improve the squad elsewhere :target man, left back perhaps?

Yes, I do think we would benefit from another Central defender - Adkins wanted Burn from Fulham and may try again in the JTW. As for Basham in CD, he is not the answer - Adkins would have done it if he thought it right. Basham and Edgar are both very right footed and you lose balance.

Midfield is now boring and needs changing - but Adkins has his hands tied a number of ways and Adkins can only solve the problem now with what he has. We are picking up points - vitally important and now look in striking distance of 6th and above.

we MUST get in the top six and take our chances in the play offs - we might, just might win one - but unless we get into the top six then we have no chance at all.

This is all we have - be thankful for small mercies - it could all have gone pear shaped - just image, boring, strong, tough and still losing? Adkins could have been on his way. Give Adkins some credit - he gave football and 442 a chance - it didn't work - we now have this and at least it is effective and working and give Adkins some breathing space to effect some sensible changes - sensible being the operative word.

UTB
 



Quality post, nothing like the previous one. I'd apologise to the O.P. if I were you. See below.
Very reasonable O.P.

ermm.I don't think so - Basham and CD in the same sentence - I don't think so...anyway, Alco's taught me well ;)

Now if we had a really sensible OP about "who do we fancy in the JTW at CD" or "If we could sign just ONE player in the JTW, then where would it be" would be more interesting than going over old ground of Basham at the back.

I totally accept your point last season that Basham at the back was reasonable considering we didn't have anyone else suitable. Clough created his own downfall with those decisions.

But Basham now? - daft idea and to change a winning formula - madness.....even if it is boring and sleep inducing.

UTB
 

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