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I cant see how if as the church depicts him we are made in his image , if hes an ultimate version of us , how does he monitor all 7 billion of us at once.I know the problems I have communicating with BT , busy lines missing e mails , how does one being continually monitor say a quarter of the planet 2 billion prayers in 24 hours. And poor old Peter, on gate duty , our border agency cant cope with 8000 hungarians , imagine , he has a million a day in the queue to get into heaven , he has to check their lifetime , not a rapid task , see if they go left hand or right hand or in the down lift, its a bitch of a job .I want to be a harp string supplier in heaven , one day Rodney we,ll be millionaires.
 



this is precisely the argument that i was talking about earlier, ie blaming God.

Evil is not his idea, he cannot be good and create evil. Evil exists entirely because we rejected God and chose our own path, God made the world to be perfect when we rejected him a virus entered the world called death its the worst virus thats ever existed and its our fault completely.

Jerry-Seinfeld-No-Thanks-and-Leave.gif
 
I presume this is the royal we? Who made that choice for me then?

I can only assume that if you belive in this then you must believe in the creation myth.

So how old is the planet Earth, and when did humans first walk on it?

It was that f**king woman wasn't it.

There you go: WOMEN - making life hard for men since the dawn of time....
 
I cant see how if as the church depicts him we are made in his image , if hes an ultimate version of us , how does he monitor all 7 billion of us at once.I know the problems I have communicating with BT , busy lines missing e mails , how does one being continually monitor say a quarter of the planet 2 billion prayers in 24 hours. And poor old Peter, on gate duty , our border agency cant cope with 8000 hungarians , imagine , he has a million a day in the queue to get into heaven , he has to check their lifetime , not a rapid task , see if they go left hand or right hand or in the down lift, its a bitch of a job .I want to be a harp string supplier in heaven , one day Rodney we,ll be millionaires.

If we were made in his image, is He a man or a woman, black, brown, or white, tall, short, thin, fat, blue eyes, brown eyes???

Lot of diversity in our world. Which particular image are we?
 
Hi darren

thanks for your thoughts.

firstly you need to wear your magical underpants more, im going to blame you for our relegation and failure to be promoted last season for not wearing them more :D

secondly, your argument assumes that our life on earth and the natural world is the only thing that exists. it assumes that there is no life after death and no heaven. But what if there was a heaven? what if it was paradise with no more pain and suffering? ps here's a link on the subject of earthquakes that makes some interestiong points: http://www.philotrust.com/blog/2010/02/where-is-god-god-and-the-haiti-earthquake

The arguments doesnt rule out aliens. Hence our world is not all that exists.

The argument also assumes that God is the same as us and thinks in the same 3d ways that we do. But what if God was able to think far far higher and greater thoughts than us? That kind of goes along with being omnipotent.


Evil is not his idea, he cannot be good and create evil.

Do you even know he meaning of he word omnipotent, as you have managed to conrtadcit yourself in the sapce of 2 posts.

Lastly, Here's a random question for a monday evening, If you were God how would you convince the world around you that you existed and were loving? would you be able to maintain free will?
If you interfered in rescued humans from every kind of evil would you find more people following you or would you be taken for granted?
Ever seen Bruce almighty? Jim Carey becomes God and answers yes to everyones prayers and it makes life worse.

How about a total eclipse of the sun, at a time when one isn't expected.

Or an unexplained shaft of light down on a football ground (a la The Second Coming).

How about eradicating HIV. Or poverty. Or Cancer. Not is one case, but every single fucking person how has the godawful disease. In one go.

There is literally a world of possibilities out there, but instead he remains this enigma, who is "mysterious".

Or he don't exist at all.
 
this introduces lots of questions
was Adam a bigamist
If they were the only couple surely to procreate their children had to commit incest
Did they produce the first bottle of cider
 
If there is a Heaven, there has to be a hell. Quite frankly I don't buy that.
Imagine an all loving all forgiving GOD creating hell and chucking in people that have never done wrong in their lives just because they are none believers.
Darren would probably be first in line. :)
Does he really deserve to be burnt in everlasting damnation. I know hes a lawyer, but they aint that bad are they? :)
 
this introduces lots of questions
was Adam a bigamist
If they were the only couple surely to procreate their children had to commit incest
Did they produce the first bottle of cider
Aye but incest couldn't have been illegal as Adam and Eve would make the laws.
 
Its Welsh name is Abertawe which, I believe, translates into English as Quim Central.


I failed to score on my only night out in Swansea. We did however opt to spend the evening in jumpin jacks, and I was the youngest in there by at least 20 years so I'm using that as my excuse...
 
I failed to score on my only night out in Swansea. We did however opt to spend the evening in jumpin jacks, and I was the youngest in there by at least 20 years so I'm using that as my excuse...

You must have gone on gay night or summat. No offence, but if Joey Deacon rocked up in Jumpin's Jacks he'd have some slappers gums on his plums for the price of a bottle of WKD Blue.
 



You must have gone on gay night or summat. No offence, but if Joey Deacon rocked up in Jumpin's Jacks he'd have some slappers gums on his plums for the price of a bottle of WKD Blue.

Have a like for the joey deacon reference. That shit never gets old.
 
I have not looked at all the posts on this, as I have been away for a few days, but those I have read, have gone down the normal path, of why there is no God, if there is why does this or that happen. My current situation is that I believe in God, and I believe in Jesus, that he walked on this earth, performed miracles, and rose from the dead, so that anyone on born on this earth can have eternal life. Simple theory. However I have not always thought like that, I was anti God when I was younger, my father died when I was 11 so of course God was to blame. My younger days I was a complete knobhead, involved in things in hindsight I should not have been involved in. However over a number of things happened in my life, that lead to a change, and that was brought about by people praying for me, and I eventually accepted that their was a God who cared for you. My life has changed, there are different perspectives put on your life, and before where there was discord in my life there is peace. I still have times of doubt, but that is me. I don't consider myself a nutter, I run my own company, that is fairly successful, although I go to most United games over the season, so perhaps people could say I was nutter. I still vent my spleen at the games, I still like a drink, to me I am a normal man in the street. Bad things have happened to me since God came in to my life, my 4 month old Grandson died in my arms, there have been other family things, that should have shaken my faith, and initially they did, however I found that I put my trust in God, then it becomes easier. God never said that he is going to give you an easy time, he has simply said trust in me, and I will give you peace and a confidence that everything will be alright. I have that confidence that when I close my eyes for the last time, then what he promised will come to pass. Ask any person who believes truly in God, and they will tell you the same. God in my view made the heavens and earth, but man fell through Adam and Eve, and he them allowed man to do what they wanted, and still does, that is why man has freedom to do what he wants, but then God gave us a get out by believing in his son Jesus. I could go on for hours on this subject, something I would not have done a few years ago. We could discuss that whys and wherefores of evolution against creation, but like me when your eyes are opened, then you see the real beauty of this earth, and have the real confidence in knowing he is real.
 
We could discuss that whys and wherefores of evolution against creation, but like me when your eyes are opened, then you see the real beauty of this earth, and have the real confidence in knowing he is real.

No we couldn`t. Evolution is scientific fact.

The fact that creationism is even tought in some schools makes me cringe.
 
No we couldn`t. Evolution is scientific fact.

The fact that creationism is even tought in some schools makes me cringe.

We could debate this for ever, you don't agree with me, I don't agree with you, that's fine, to me there are far more holes in the evolution story, than in the creation story.If we ever meet we could have a full discussion. Until then we agree to differ :)
 
We could debate this for ever, you don't agree with me, I don't agree with you, that's fine, to me there are far more holes in the evolution story, than in the creation story.If we ever meet we could have a full discussion. Until then we agree to differ :)

Agreed, but clearly I disagree with the bit in bold...
 
As I say that's fine, I don't.. Would be a bit boring if everybody agreed the same....... the truth will come out for everyone to see one day, now that will be an interesting day.

Ah now, you see I think the truth already has come out for all to see, its just that some (and Christians aren`t the only ones, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddists are just as bad) are too deluded to see it.

I like this debate, it's friendly (ish), and polite (ish) unlike some debates I could mention on here....
 
Ah now, you see I think the truth already has come out for all to see, its just that some (and Christians aren`t the only ones, Muslims, Sikhs, Buddists are just as bad) are too deluded to see it.

I like this debate, it's friendly (ish), and polite (ish) unlike some debates I could mention on here....

At last we agree that the truth has come out, but I am afraid it is not the Christians that are to deluded to see it. But again we will disagree on that point. :(
 
We could discuss that whys and wherefores of evolution against creation, but like me when your eyes are opened, then you see the real beauty of this earth, and have the real confidence in knowing he is real.

And this is where you just make yourself sound like a tin-foil hatted conspiracy nut, claiming that peoples eyes aren't open just because they don't believe in the same things as you.

What are the holes in evolution then?
 
And this is where you just make yourself sound like a tin-foil hatted conspiracy nut, claiming that peoples eyes aren't open just because they don't believe in the same things as you.

What are the holes in evolution then?

So is that not the same as people saying my eyes are shut because I don't believe in evolution.

Here is a thought
if the universe is just an accidental product of a big bang, why should it be orderly? Why should there be laws of nature if there is no lawgiver? If our brains are the by-products of random chance, why should we trust that scientists conclusions are accurate?
 
why should we trust that scientists conclusions are accurate?

You shouldn't. The name of the game is to change what is thought of as being "truth" by presenting alternative evidence plus the logic to support it.
 
You shouldn't. The name of the game is to change what is thought of as being "truth" by presenting alternative evidence plus the logic to support it.
To my eyes the creation is accurate, I have seen nothing to disprove that. Scientists are striving to find the truth, on it seems an ever moving platform.
 
You shouldn't. The name of the game is to change what is thought of as being "truth" by presenting alternative evidence plus the logic to support it.

Exactly - the very nature of science is that knowledge progresses by aiming to disprove existing theories. On that basis you should never trust that scientists conclusions are accurate, you should always be trying to find a weakness in the methodology.

The weakness of creationism is that it stifles knowledge. Seeking to explain it all as the beautiful creation of a higher being and then saying "so that's alright then" stops us learning any more about it. If that theory has gaps in it when scrutinised we'll (actually we have) learn more by trying to find an alternative.

The fact that there are holes in any theory should just push us to find a better one, not justify it harder.
 



To my eyes the creation is accurate, I have seen nothing to disprove that. Scientists are striving to find the truth, on it seems an ever moving platform.

Which brings us right back to one of Darren's original points. There's little that can be achieved in the debate when one side operates using faith and the other scientific principles.
 

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