At 4-0 up Satdi and 3-0 up last night...............

[Blade58]

.......................wonder why CW has not given Lavery a few minutes game time to try and get his match fitness moving?

Last weekend I would've laid money on Lavery getting a few minutes when the game was won and the same last night. Lavery will never get match fit if we don't give him a run out here and there surely?

Can't knock CW with how he's going about things that's for sure, but can't see his logic with this one.

 

[Ricky]

Very surprising given how much he's raved about him.

Also, he'd typically replace Done, who uses a lot of energy, so it would make sense from that point of view too. Rest Done, build Lavery's fitness.

Also thought he should've taken off one of Coutts or Fleck for the last 15/20 minutes last night with Bradford coming up.

 

[GrayBlade]

I said the same on Saturday, maybe Lavery is still not 100% and will only come on if he's needed. I still think he'll be a key player going forward.

 

[Grecian2000]

Can't think of many players (especially strikers) who would be anything other than pissed off if they were withdrawn when the game is won and there are, potentially, more goals in it for them.
It's a balance Wilder has to work with and I think he seems to be getting it right.

 

[Blade58]

I said the same on Saturday, maybe Lavery is still not 100% and will only come on if he's needed. I still think he'll be a key player going forward.

Strange one Gray, but the longer he's not getting any minutes, the longer it takes him to get match fit and the more difficult it will be should we need him in an emergency

 

[SwissBlade]

I get the impression that Wilder likes to use his subs for fitness/ injury and tactical changes, rather than just to give somebody a run out. He picks his best 11 and thats what he sticks with...

 

[Blade58]

Can't think of many players (especially strikers) who would be anything other than pissed off if they were withdrawn when the game is won and there are, potentially, more goals in it for them.
It's a balance Wilder has to work with and I think he seems to be getting it right.

It's about priorities tho imo.

Lavery's fitness may be more important, especially should a striker get injured, than worrying about resting a player for the final few minutes when the game is won

Both those games, CW has used the 3 subs. It's part of the game and he's not averse to bringing Sharp or Done off as he's done it before. Now tho, there is good reason to rest one of them, especially when the 3 points are in the bag

 

[Blade58]

I get the impression that Wilder likes to use his subs for fitness/ injury and tactical changes, rather than just to give somebody a run out. He picks his best 11 and thats what he sticks with...

It's Lavery's fitness I'm talking about Swiss. There's good reason to bring him on don't you think?

 

[SwissBlade]

It's Lavery's fitness I'm talking about Swiss. There's good reason to bring him on don't you think?

I think as football fans we're kind of tuned to believe that giving a player a run out gives improves their fitness, but the reality is that a cold run out on a tuesday night might expose him to injury risk...

Let him do his fitness training in controlled environment in training, allowing coaches to work with him and then if we need a change to Done or Billy then he's ready

I think Wilder is still trying to build that solid base in his side and I guess at 0-3 up, it was then about the clean sheet.

Personally i would've expected a 20 min run out for Lavery, but it doesn't seem to be Wilders way.

 

[SwissBlade]

The other thing is that its a 46 league game season and Lavery will get his chances, look at the periods where we have a lot of games in a week (Nov-Feb), if we get him fit now then he will be more useful in those periods.

 

[Esablade]

The other thing is that its a 46 league game season and Lavery will get his chances, look at the periods where we have a lot of games in a week (Nov-Feb), if we get him fit now then he will be more useful in those periods.

..everyone wants to stay on the pitch when you think you've a chance of scoring and are winning 3 or 4-0..it's amazing how that boost's the energy..must be endorphins or summat...

 

[Chief_Froley]

Part of me has been wondering if Lavery has picked up a worse injury than has been let on and is just on the bench for absolute last resort purposes.

If teams saw we hadn't got a single striker on the bench, Sharp and Done would be on stretchers in about as much time as it take Captain Blade to knock one out to a picture of Miss Piggy.

 

[Iceybabey]

Maybe Wilder wants his front men to stay on and because 1. They are playing well 2. He wants them to bag. Goals breed confidence.

 

[Caseh]

Maybe Wilder wants his front men to stay on and because 1. They are playing well 2. He wants them to bag. Goals breed confidence.

Which makes sense, but he also said recently he's got them doing more than he would usually ask of his players, because he has no one to replace them...

 

[blade too long]

Wilder wins a game first , worries about individuals needing game time way down the list
Lavery will get his chance , but if we are on a winning run we go with those earning the points,
if he shines in training he will get a chance, until then hes a pro and knows the score
will definitely play against Orient Id guess, alongside Clarke

 

[BushBlade]

Part of me has been wondering if Lavery has picked up a worse injury than has been let on and is just on the bench for absolute last resort purposes.

If teams saw we hadn't got a single striker on the bench, Sharp and Done would be on stretchers in about as much time as it take Captain Blade to knock one out to a picture of Miss Piggy.

Why not put Jake Wright jnr on the bench if that were the case? He's scoring for the u23s. Probably didn't want to risk him coming onto a heavy pitch on a cold night against a team that seem to like to kick players and have a reputation for being ill-disciplined. Make sure he's fit if we need him against Bradford.
And Billy and Doney seemed to be enjoying themselves, why take them off if they're not flagging and could score again? They work hard for the team, let them enjoy it.

 

[Chief_Froley]

Why not put Jake Wright jnr on the bench if that were the case? He's scoring for the u23s. Probably didn't want to risk him coming onto a heavy pitch on a cold night against a team that seem to like to kick players and have a reputation for being ill-disciplined. Make sure he's fit if we need him against Bradford.
And Billy and Doney seemed to be enjoying themselves, why take them off if they're not flagging and could score again? They work hard for the team, let them enjoy it.

I completely forgot about Jake Wright the younger. I hearby take back my comment on Lavery!

Captain Blade is still a massive perv though. I caught him around the bins at McDonald's with the Grimace the other day.

 

[Snowman]

The two reasons I have in mind are that (a) Whilst he has his first choice strike force working well in a winning team it would send out the wrong message to take either of them off and (b) There will come a time when either through injury, tactics or bad form those strikers need replacing and that will be the time to change things. That sends the right message. "You don't perform, you get dropped/substituted".

 

[Ricky]

There's no obvious logical explanation for the reluctance to bring Lavery on, it'll be something irregular, maybe his injury was worse than reported and he won't be risked when games are over.

There are fitness and tactical gains to be had from bringing him on. That surely outweighs any 'message' Wilder wants to send by keeping certain players on the pitch.

Fitness - conserve Done's energy (especially when playing again in 3/4 days), build Lavery's fitness.

Tactical - fresh legs, simple. Close defenders down quicker than a tiring player would, have someone who'll run at defenders and provide an outlet, etc.

 

[Snowman]

There's no obvious logical explanation for the reluctance to bring Lavery on, it'll be something irregular, maybe his injury was worse than reported and he won't be risked when games are over.

There are fitness and tactical gains to be had from bringing him on. That surely outweighs any 'message' Wilder wants to send by keeping certain players on the pitch.

Fitness - conserve Done's energy (especially when playing again in 3/4 days), build Lavery's fitness.

Tactical - fresh legs, simple. Close defenders down quicker than a tiring player would, have someone who'll run at defenders and provide an outlet, etc.

I appreciate there are perceived tactical and fitness gains to be had. That's from our observing perspective. Wilder may be as stubborn in the way he selects and fields a team as most managers seem to be. "You are the team. The rest have to work as hard to get into it" maybe the mantra.

I once lost promotion by one point for a team I managed by being persuaded to put a player on because his mates said "he wanted a run". 2-0 up with 20 minutes to go. Drew 2-2.

Some people may forget that. I don't after nearly 26 years.

 

[Blade56]

At the final whistle of each I felt pride again and even a little

 

[Blade58]

The two reasons I have in mind are that (a) Whilst he has his first choice strike force working well in a winning team it would send out the wrong message to take either of them off and (b) There will come a time when either through injury, tactics or bad form those strikers need replacing and that will be the time to change things. That sends the right message. "You don't perform, you get dropped/substituted".

Sorry that doesn't quite work for me as CW has already taken off both Done and Sharp this season, so why not allow Lavery some minutes on the pitch to get match fit after the game is won and for the good of the team overall

And regards your second point, we're unbeaten in 9, playing good football and yet CW continues to use all 3 subs every game and that applies even when tactics are spot on, no injuries, or bad form

Nope, CW has flummaxed me on this one

 

[Snowman]

Sorry that doesn't quite work for me as CW has already taken off both Done and Sharp this season, so why not allow Lavery some minutes on the pitch to get match fit after the game is won and for the good of the team overall

And regards your second point, we're unbeaten in 9, playing good football and yet CW continues to use all 3 subs every game and that applies even when tactics are spot on, no injuries, or bad form

Nope, CW has flummaxed me on this one

I think he has taken both of them off in circumstances where they didn't perform or in the early days when something different was needed when we were "behind the eight ball". Last night the two subs were defensive with ten minutes to play. Both fairly inconsequential. I must look at this in more detail, but it feels like an old fashioned approach. If nothing is needed don't bother. If it is obviously wrong change it early. Otherwise protect what you have got. Don't push it.

 

[Pinchy]

I think as football fans we're kind of tuned to believe that giving a player a run out gives improves their fitness, but the reality is that a cold run out on a tuesday night might expose him to injury risk...

Let him do his fitness training in controlled environment in training, allowing coaches to work with him and then if we need a change to Done or Billy then he's ready

I think Wilder is still trying to build that solid base in his side and I guess at 0-3 up, it was then about the clean sheet.

Personally i would've expected a 20 min run out for Lavery, but it doesn't seem to be Wilders way.

No. He needs to take more note of the wisdom that comes from playing Manager games on computers and reading Shoot....

 

[Houston_Blade]

Wilders Bladey Bladeness is that strong he likes getting ex-pig strikers and putting them on the bench to rot while he stands there chuckling to himself.

 

[sheffielder]

I get the impression that Wilder likes to use his subs for fitness/ injury and tactical changes, rather than just to give somebody a run out. He picks his best 11 and thats what he sticks with...

The general rule seems to be if you're not 100%, you're not getting on the pitch unless there is an emergency. I

I think Lavary came on for a cameo against Peterborough, but that appeared more tactical in wanting to stretch the pitch. I am sure O'Connell could have probably played last night if Basham wasn't back from suspension.

 

[PokerBlade]

I'm surprised not to have seen more of him too, but maybe it's as simple as there being other players that also deserve/need some game time. Chapman, Brown, Hussey, Scougall, Whiteman, were also on the bench, also could do with a bit of match sharpness, and all might have been competitive on the training ground. Couldn't really argue against giving any of them a bit of a lift, and other players on the pitch may have needed resting more than the strikers.

It's alright knowing that Lavery needs some time, but we don't know the state of the entire starting eleven as well as the coaching team do to make the decision about priorities.

 

[Tynemouth Blade]

But isn't it nice to finally have the luxury of strength in depth with quality both on the pitch and the bench?

 

[Paulus]

I think Billy would have had something to say to Wilder if he'd been given the hook when he was on a hattrick and Done still had enough energy to sprint the entire width of the pitch closing down the Shrewsbury defence in the 88th minute.