Assumptions

[alcoblade]

sorry i love this. murphy has turned into George Best since he left.. Holt and Davies were slaughtered on here

Murphy was our player of the season. Holt scored goals, Davies was shite, I'd agree.

More's the point that Clough built a squad suited to his own style. Adkins hasn't been given the time or resource to adjust it to his own, though he must do much better. But you can see by the direction of travel of the departures that the wider football world judges our squad as mid third division, at best.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

So if a monkey could have improved on weir's tenure, and Adkins has come in after Clough had got us to 5th and the semi's and now taken us backward, what does that make Adkins??? Because by your rational a monkey would be better than Adkins!

I can't wait for the next monkey to come along and improve on where Adkins has got us to this year. Hopefully that monkey will take us to a couple more semi finals and at least a play off birth.

Point missed.

I am not accusing Clough of being a monkey. But the task of steering Sheffield United away from England's fourth division should not be overstated. A bingo caller with a tombola would have done that.

 

[sheffielder]

The only people he hasn't blamed are his staff, maybe the tea lady as long as she wasn't in ear shot

 

[BushBlade]

sorry i love this. murphy has turned into George Best since he left.. Holt and Davies were slaughtered on here

He's playing at the top of the championship so compared to our shit he is George Best.

But generally, what alcoblade said.

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

I'm so fucking tired of having to post the same thing every day when someone pops up with the 'same team that Clough took to the playoffs' statement

We lost Murphy, Davies and Holt. How many goals and assists were there from those three? And we lost our Captain who was also our only decent defensive midfielder.

Even if you were of the opinion that we only needed three or four (which I wasn't; I advocated binning the twats at the start of the season and making them train alone or fuck off, and signing a significant number of players, as Jackett did at Wolves), then after losing those, plus Ben Davies we still needed to sign eight or nine. Ideally before the pre-season, not after KM wakes up following a humiliating defeat and puts his hand in his pocket.

I see where your coming from as it is a repetition argument, one I admit I keep arguing.

But until fans stop laying all the blame on Clough, acknowledge that he didn't do too bad for us and accept that Adkins took over in June and this season is down to him then the argument will continue.

note I do also lay much of the blame on the board as well, the club is shambolically ran from the top: I don't rate Adkins, but is job is made even tougher by the clowns above him.

 

[Bladesway]

Point missed.

I am not accusing Clough of being a monkey. But the task of steering Sheffield United away from England's fourth division should not be overstated. A bingo caller with a tombola would have done that.

Oof not strictly true Alco, your really undercooking the achievement in Cloughs first season to suit your agenda there.

Also, cup wins at QPR, Fulham, against Forest and Charlton. Count for nowt all of a sudden?

 

[BushBlade]

I see where your coming from as it is a repetition argument, one I admit I keep arguing.

But until fans stop laying all the blame on Clough, acknowledge that he didn't do too bad for us and accept that Adkins took over in June and this season is down to him then the argument will continue.

note I do also lay much of the blame on the board as well, the club is shambolically ran from the top: I don't rate Adkins, but is job is made even tougher by the clowns above him.

But my point is factual. Whether you rated them or not, Murphy, Davies, Holt and Doyle were fairly regular players in the side that got to the playoffs. So it's not the same side.

The way I see it is that there are two schools of thought;

One is that Adkins has done shit but there are enough factors to excuse his poor performance.
The other is that he's done shit and despite the mitigating factors, he still should have done better and so should be sacked.
With the odd one that thinks he's shit but we may as well keep him anyway because we'll mess up his replacement.

Which side of the argument you're on is a matter of opinion and open to debate. I fully understand why people want him sacked, even though I don't, but I can't be doing with people making inaccurate statements to support their argument. It's not like there's any need to, unless one lacks belief in the strength of their argument.

 

[super_pig]

Point missed.

I am not accusing Clough of being a monkey. But the task of steering Sheffield United away from England's fourth division should not be overstated. A bingo caller with a tombola would have done that.

as long as he wasn't called David Weir presumably

 

[alcoblade]

Oof not strictly true Alco, your really undercooking the achievement in Cloughs first season to suit your agenda there.

Also, cup wins at QPR, Fulham, against Forest and Charlton. Count for nowt all of a sudden?

They were great achievements and very enjoyable, but don't alter the fact that we were not even nearly a Championship level outfit. It's that that we're judging against now, and there's no agenda whatsoever in play.

I didn't actually want Clough sacked, and I don't rate the job Adkins has done so far, though I remain a fan based of his track record, which I've always placed great emphasis on.

UTB

 

[PeteBlade]

He got rid of more than he brought in ,many times proved on here ,more than many times ignored.

I've never seen these figures, are they easily accessible anywhere?

 

[Bladesway]

They were great achievements and very enjoyable, but don't alter the fact that we were not even nearly a Championship level outfit. It's that that we're judging against now, and there's no agenda whatsoever in play.

I didn't actually want Clough sacked, and I don't rate the job Adkins has done so far, though I remain a fan based of his track record, which I've always placed great emphasis on.

UTB

Circular conversation coming here I'm afraid. We sold our quality players in Harry and Murphy. You do that and who the fuck has a chance. You may as well saw a blokes legs off and put him against Bolt.

Harry
Blackman
Murphy
Kmac
Quinn

All gone. Replaced with anything better? No. Any wonder we keep going backwards?

 

[Borbokisfreekick]

But my point is factual. Whether you rated them or not, Murphy, Davies, Holt and Doyle were fairly regular players in the side that got to the playoffs. So it's not the same side.

The way I see it is that there are two schools of thought;

One is that Adkins has done shit but there are enough factors to excuse his poor performance.
The other is that he's done shit and despite the mitigating factors, he still should have done better and so should be sacked.
With the odd one that thinks he's shit but we may as well keep him anyway because we'll mess up his replacement.

Which side of the argument you're on is a matter of opinion and open to debate. I fully understand why people want him sacked, even though I don't, but I can't be doing with people making inaccurate statements to support their argument. It's not like there's any need to, unless one lacks belief in the strength of their argument.

I'm in the group that thinks he's shit but may as well keep him for the sake of consistency and because we will no doubt mess up further with his replacement. Which is a pretty depressing place to be in.

Unless we can get wilder that is, which we won't.

The only way Adkins will be a success is if he is given a load of money to spend, which won't happen. So we will be in mid table again next year with him.

 

[alcoblade]

as long as he wasn't called David Weir presumably

Yep, sometimes incompetence knows no bounds.

UTB

 

[alcoblade]

Circular conversation coming here I'm afraid. We sold our quality players in Harry and Murphy. You do that and who the fuck has a chance. You may as well saw a blokes legs off and put him against Bolt.

Harry
Blackman
Murphy
Kmac
Quinn

All gone. Replaced with anything better? No. Any wonder we keep going backwards?

Agreed. But signing tens of players, of similar stature, in similar positions, creating an inbalanced squad of physically and technically sub standard yet expensive players, is a factor in itself.

None of what went before forced that to happen, and it quite clearly did. That's not circular, it's just a mistake.

UTB

 

[PeteBlade]

I'd like to know when Chris Wilder became Pep Guardiola myself.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Circular conversation coming here I'm afraid. We sold our quality players in Harry and Murphy. You do that and who the fuck has a chance. You may as well saw a blokes legs off and put him against Bolt.

Harry
Blackman
Murphy
Kmac
Quinn

All gone. Replaced with anything better? No. Any wonder we keep going backwards?

Bolt?

Bolt neck Sammon?

 

[Sean Thornton]

I'd like to know when Chris Wilder became Pep Guardiola myself.

Adkins CV doesn't count, everyone else's does.

 

[The Bohemian]

I was referring to the impact his signings have had on us. They will hold us back for some years to come. Ditto Robson.

Good luck to Clough at Burton, but he hasn't built that squad, and their form since his arrival is pedestrian. Either way, it's not my point.

UTB

Clough's Burton has maintained a virtually identical points per game ratio and scored significantly more goals per game, post Hasselbaink. This, despite selling off El Khayati, the club's top scorer, to QPR.

Hardly "pedestrian."

 

[HillmortonBlade]

and got us to 2 cup semis , saved us from relegation and up to 7th and got us to the play offs
Adkins has seen us in sharp decline,

Truth be told, I don't think we defended particularly well for most of those play offs. My recollection was a manager looking clueless sat in the dug out at Swindon. Correct me if I am wrong. A club such as ours debating whether Clough (the minor) versus Adkins (the physio) is better, strange times.

 

[blade too long]

I'm so fucking tired of having to post the same thing every day when someone pops up with the 'same team that Clough took to the playoffs' statement

We lost Murphy, Davies and Holt. How many goals and assists were there from those three? And we lost our Captain who was also our only decent defensive midfielder.
.

when were Davies and Holt the spine of our squad,
Surely Adkins let Murphy go after his shit performance at Gillingham saying he didnt want to stay
Cant blame Clough for letting Murphy go

 

[blade too long]

Truth be told, I don't think we defended particularly well for most of those play offs. My recollection was a manager looking clueless sat in the dug out at Swindon. Correct me if I am wrong. A club such as ours debating whether Clough (the minor) versus Adkins (the physio) is better, strange times.

I dont dsagree , we were still a bit short of being good enough
but we were a damn sight better than what we are now
we sacked Clough and Adkins isnt reaching his level of being nearly good enough , Adkins is by comparison well short of being good enough

 

[PeteBlade]

Surely Adkins let Murphy go after his shit performance at Gillingham saying he didnt want to stay
Cant blame Clough for letting Murphy go

Are you for real?

 

[blade too long]

Are you for real?

didnt Murphy play at Gillingham, he was picked by Adkins

you should look it up on Wikipedia

 

[PeteBlade]

didnt Murphy play at Gillingham, he was picked by Adkins

you should look it up on Wikipedia

Someone else is going to have to act as your carer today, I haven't got the patience for you.

 

[blade too long]

Someone else is going to have to act as your carer today, I haven't got the patience for you.

hasve they put your jacket on that ties round the back

 

[Balham]

He got rid of more than he brought in ,many times proved on here ,more than many times ignored.

Not true Sitters: looking at first teamers (ie excluding players like Reed who he gave debuts to and Barry, who we released having never made a first team appearance), Clough brought in 3 more than he released. He also spent quite a bit more than he brought in, particularly once the costs of paying players off is taken into consideration.

Out: 16
Brandy (free)
King (free - paid off)
Williams (free - paid off)
McMahon (swap)
Taylor (£50k)
McGinty (free)
Johns (free)
Miller (free)
Maguire (£2.5m)
Whitehouse (free)
Hill (free)
Westlake (free)
Butler (free - paid off)
McGinn (free - paid off)
Porter (free)
Davies (free)

In: 19
Scougall (£400k)
Harris (swap)
McNulty (£125k)
Davies (free)
Wallace (free)
Basham (free)
McEveley (free)
Campbell-Ryce (free)
Butler (free)
Alcock (free)
McGahey (£60k)
Higdon (£250k)
Turner (free)
K Wallace (free)
Adams (£100k)
Freeman (free)
Coutts (£200k)
Brayford (£2m)
Done (£750k)

I'd like to know when Chris Wilder became Pep Guardiola myself.

He's the anti-Guardiola. Literally the polar opposite of a suave, sophisticated, cerebral thinker of the game.

 

[sitwell]

Not true Sitters: looking at first teamers (ie excluding players like Reed who he gave debuts to and Barry, who we released having never made a first team appearance), Clough brought in 3 more than he released. He also spent quite a bit more than he brought in, particularly once the costs of paying players off is taken into consideration.

Out: 16
Brandy (free)
King (free - paid off)
Williams (free - paid off)
McMahon (swap)
Taylor (£50k)
McGinty (free)
Johns (free)
Miller (free)
Maguire (£2.5m)
Whitehouse (free)
Hill (free)
Westlake (free)
Butler (free - paid off)
McGinn (free - paid off)
Porter (free)
Davies (free)

In: 19
Scougall (£400k)
Harris (swap)
McNulty (£125k)
Davies (free)
Wallace (free)
Basham (free)
McEveley (free)
Campbell-Ryce (free)
Butler (free)
Alcock (free)
McGahey (£60k)
Higdon (£250k)
Turner (free)
K Wallace (free)
Adams (£100k)
Freeman (free)
Coutts (£200k)
Brayford (£2m)
Done (£750k)




He's the anti-Guardiola. Literally the polar opposite of a suave, sophisticated, cerebral thinker of the game.

Someone else put a list on here and there were more than that on both columns ,that's what I am basing it on. Even though 3 is not the mammoth amount some go on about. What about Doyle and Turner ? and you could say Collins sold to the naughty step.

 

[PeteBlade]

Someone else put a list on here and there were more than that on both columns ,that's what I am basing it on. Even though 3 is not the mammoth amount some go on about. What about Doyle ? and you could say Collins sold to the naughty step.

And he didn't get rid of more than he brought in as claimed.

Maybe that's why the point is often ignored?

 

[BushBlade]

Not true Sitters: looking at first teamers (ie excluding players like Reed who he gave debuts to and Barry, who we released having never made a first team appearance), Clough brought in 3 more than he released. He also spent quite a bit more than he brought in, particularly once the costs of paying players off is taken into consideration.

Out: 16
Brandy (free)
King (free - paid off)
Williams (free - paid off)
McMahon (swap)
Taylor (£50k)
McGinty (free)
Johns (free)
Miller (free)
Maguire (£2.5m)
Whitehouse (free)
Hill (free)
Westlake (free)
Butler (free - paid off)
McGinn (free - paid off)
Porter (free)
Davies (free)

In: 19
Scougall (£400k)
Harris (swap)
McNulty (£125k)
Davies (free)
Wallace (free)
Basham (free)
McEveley (free)
Campbell-Ryce (free)
Butler (free)
Alcock (free)
McGahey (£60k)
Higdon (£250k)
Turner (free)
K Wallace (free)
Adams (£100k)
Freeman (free)
Coutts (£200k)
Brayford (£2m)
Done (£750k)




He's the anti-Guardiola. Literally the polar opposite of a suave, sophisticated, cerebral thinker of the game.

Why did we pay £250k for Higdon? I thought he was out of contract.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

sorry i love this. murphy has turned into George Best since he left.. Holt and Davies were slaughtered on here

It's all relative though.

Murphy is no George Best but is proving he's a decent championship player and far better than any other attacking player we have.

Holt was considered by many to be a decent prospect but not the right fit given the lack of physical presence in the squad.

Davies was considered decent I would say. Not exceptional. Not as good as O Grady but a decent foil for Done.