Are we the worst run club?

[Micalijo]

Lenners,

I have debt, quite large amounts, they're called Mortgages, I have them on two properties I own. It works out quite well. It means that over a long period of time I can pay off little chunks of cash to eventually pay off the full value.

Its linked to my earnings as well which means I didn't borrow what I can't afford to pay back. By doing this it means that I didn't need the cash for the buildings in one go and I'm able to have cash in my back pocket for buying stuff like fast cars, hookers and booze

And what happens if you borrow money and the value of the asset collapses?

 

[beightonblade]

And what happens if you borrow money and the value of the asset collapses?

yer sell a player or two yer daft fooker

 

[sheffielder]

And what happens if you borrow money and the value of the asset collapses?

It already has collapsed. United are now waiting on the value to go up. They are sitting tight. Our Assets outweigh the debt. We are not going to be in this dip for ever as a country. Just because I have an 80 grand mortgage on my house doesn't mean I have debt as long as I can service it (pay my mortgage)

We have no footballing debt but we are not able to raise the funds required to make a push, but that won't always be the case. Do you think Kev ditched his shares he got for selling out to the Australians because they hit bottom? no! I am guessing Kev is in his 60's and he has seen all this shit before.

Haven't you two got burgers to flip

 

[sheffielder]

yer sell a player or two yer daft fooker

welcome to the real world

 

[SwissBlade]

And what happens if you borrow money and the value of the asset collapses?

I'll be fooked if it collapses

but hopefully I've done enough to limit my risks.

 

[Micalijo]

It already has collapsed. United are now waiting on the value to go up. They are sitting tight. Our Assets outweigh the debt. We are not going to be in this dip for ever as a country. Just because I have an 80 grand mortgage on my house doesn't mean I have debt as long as I can service it (pay my mortgage)

We have no footballing debt but we are not able to raise the funds required to make a push, but that won't always be the case. Do you think Kev ditched his shares he got for selling out to the Australians because they hit bottom? no! I am guessing Kev is in his 60's and he has seen all this shit before.

Haven't you two got burgers to flip

Cheers for that explanation you daft little so and so. I never knew we were in a recession. You call flogging owt that moves 'sitting tight'?

You support a balance sheet, I support a football club by the looks of it.

 

[sheffielder]

Cheers for that explanation you daft little so and so. I never knew we were in a recession. You call flogging owt that moves 'sitting tight'?

You support a balance sheet, I support a football club by the looks of it.

Every company has been cutting back while trying not to cut performance. Problem is we had Blackwell and he could not sustain the change. Now look west and you will see Alex Ferguson who's team is getting worse year on year in my opinion but the performance stays the same. They won't last forever but unless they are bought out they eventually will run dry. I think it is different for us as we may now have a guy willing to use the academy and I think we can build for the future. McCabe or the American twats? you decide

 

[sheffielder]

ps I also think firesales like Naughton and Walker will not happen anymore due to the fact money is drying up on all levels. I can't see many teams buying fo the future like they did before. I think we have a legit chance of building something from now on if we hold are balls tight. God how I wish Chappell and James turn into players and maybe Brown will learn enough to take over next season when Calve has gone. That is what supporting football is all about. Roe can become a good left back. Billard a new keeper we can actually bring through. Football played the right way with youngsters being brought through. I never thought I would see the day, but I just might now

 

[Nick Jansky]

And what happens if you borrow money and the value of the asset collapses?

As long as you can still service the debt, it doesn't really matter unless you want to sell the asset. In those circumstances the sensible approach is to sit tight until the value of the asset once more exceeds the debt.

 

[JohnDenver]

And what happens if you borrow money and the value of the asset collapses?

Then he has negative equity but so long as the utility and/or income from the properties remains good, then he's still smiling at the hooker in the passenger seat as she shakes him another cocktail*.





*leave it!

 

[sheffielder]

I knew I should have applied for the new finance director job

 

[lenners]

Lenners,

I have debt, quite large amounts, they're called Mortgages, I have them on two properties I own. It works out quite well. It means that over a long period of time I can pay off little chunks of cash to eventually pay off the full value.

Its linked to my earnings as well which means I didn't borrow what I can't afford to pay back. By doing this it means that I didn't need the cash for the buildings in one go and I'm able to have cash in my back pocket for buying stuff like fast cars, hookers and booze

Pleased for you Swiss.
A shame United did something completely different.

 

[Micalijo]

As long as you can still service the debt, it doesn't really matter unless you want to sell the asset. In those circumstances the sensible approach is to sit tight until the value of the asset once more exceeds the debt.

But McCabe does want to sell doesn't he? The value of the football club has been decimated by shite management and by taking the piss out of the fans. As Len says we have £50m debt and a still declining asset base I think. Do you think McCabe has sat tight? McCabe has been servicing the (property) debt, in my opinion, via player sales and Tevez cash. When the recession ends we will be what we are now, a shit football team unless Speed is a miracle worker. I don't get your argument in relation to sitting tight

 

[Nick Jansky]

But McCabe does want to sell doesn't he? The value of the football club has been decimated by shite management and by taking the piss out of the fans. As Len says we have £50m debt and a still declining asset base I think. Do you think McCabe has sat tight? McCabe has been servicing the (property) debt, in my opinion, via player sales and Tevez cash. When the recession ends we will be what we are now, a shit football team unless Speed is a miracle worker. I don't get your argument in relation to sitting tight

He has stated on more than one occasion that he doesn't want to sell, he is looking for an investor to work alongside him. You have your opinion on why the value of the football club has declined, I have mine. We are not a shit football team, whoever is bottom of League 2 at the end of the season is a shit football team, we are an average football team. And no, you clearly don't get my argument about sitting tight. That's because you demonstrate time & time again that you take a very short term view, which is probably the accountant in you.

 

[lenners]

The thing is Nick that whichever way you cut it the huge income United have enjoyed over the last four years should never have left us in a situation where we're so indebted and unable to assemble a proper team for the second season running.

 

[Micalijo]

He has stated on more than one occasion that he doesn't want to sell, he is looking for an investor to work alongside him. You have your opinion on why the value of the football club has declined, I have mine. We are not a shit football team, whoever is bottom of League 2 at the end of the season is a shit football team, we are an average football team. And no, you clearly don't get my argument about sitting tight. That's because you demonstrate time & time again that you take a very short term view, which is probably the accountant in you.

What do mean by 'sitting tight'? Selling other assets to pay service existing debts? That is what we have done isn't it?

 

[Micalijo]

He has stated on more than one occasion that he doesn't want to sell, he is looking for an investor to work alongside him. You have your opinion on why the value of the football club has declined, I have mine. We are not a shit football team, whoever is bottom of League 2 at the end of the season is a shit football team, we are an average football team. And no, you clearly don't get my argument about sitting tight. That's because you demonstrate time & time again that you take a very short term view, which is probably the accountant in you.

PS - how come we're having a sensible chat on this string yet on another one you can't resist calling me a miserable person etc, etc who depresses the whole forum?

 

[Nick Jansky]

The thing is Nick that whichever way you cut it the huge income United have enjoyed over the last four years should never have left us in a situation where we're so indebted and unable to assemble a proper team for the second season running.

I agree, Len, and I too feel pissed off about it. We have wasted vast sums and it is because mistakes were made at the very top, chiefly through letting the wrong people spend the money. But people make mistakes in every walk of life, I have & I'm sure you have too. What good does it do beating up on them forever? We are where we are, and the important thing now is moving on & making the best of it - we can't undo the past.

And, at the risk of raking over old calls, we wouldn't be where we are had it not been for a global financial meltdown, the timing of which few predicted. What looked like a sound business model for the furtherance of the football club turned into a bit of a basket case, at least in the medium term. Very, very unfortunate, but again, that's where we are.

Having said that, I would love KM & TB to desist with the spin, hold their hands up & tell us exactly what the detailed 5 year plan for the club is, but I don't think its gonna happen any time soon.

 

[Nick Jansky]

PS - how come we're having a sensible chat on this string yet on another one you can't resist calling me a miserable person etc, etc who depresses the whole forum?

Because in my childish way I know that you will always bite, and it amuses the hell out of me!!

 

[Micalijo]

Because in my childish way I know that you will always bite, and it amuses the hell out of me!!

And you don't bite?

Anyway, what do you mean by sitting tight and how has McCabe sat tight?

 

[Micalijo]

I agree, Len, and I too feel pissed off about it. We have wasted vast sums and it is because mistakes were made at the very top, chiefly through letting the wrong people spend the money. But people make mistakes in every walk of life, I have & I'm sure you have too. What good does it do beating up on them forever? We are where we are, and the important thing now is moving on & making the best of it - we can't undo the past.

And, at the risk of raking over old calls, we wouldn't be where we are had it not been for a global financial meltdown, the timing of which few predicted. What looked like a sound business model for the furtherance of the football club turned into a bit of a basket case, at least in the medium term. Very, very unfortunate, but again, that's where we are.

Having said that, I would love KM & TB to desist with the spin, hold their hands up & tell us exactly what the detailed 5 year plan for the club is, but I don't think its gonna happen any time soon.

Do you mean 'sound business model for cushioning any risk McCabe may have been exposed to on the property side of things?' He aint daft obvioulsy McCabe so that is my take on things Jansky.

 

[beightonblade]

McCabe will leave BDTBL with more than he put in......just wish he'd hurry up.

 

[Foxy]

McCabe will leave BDTBL with more than he put in......just wish he'd hurry up.

If he's running the club so badly, making loads of mistakes and heaping debt on us, just how exactly is he going to achieve that? Imagining of course that he would want to and could.

 

[beightonblade]

If he's running the club so badly, making loads of mistakes and heaping debt on us, just how exactly is he going to achieve that? Imagining of course that he would want to and could.

I'm not tellin yer ................ but i might give yer a clue if yer sort the grass out !

 

[Nick Jansky]

Do you mean 'sound business model for cushioning any risk McCabe may have been exposed to on the property side of things?' He aint daft obvioulsy McCabe so that is my take on things Jansky.

I know that's your take on it, you've said so before. That is because you seem to be very mistrustful of his motives.

From what I know of the guy (which may, or may not, be rather more than you) perhaps his intentions were, primarily, to develop other income generating assets for the furtherance of the club, but also wanted to take steps to protect as far as possible the investment (yes, investment, he is very definitely a Blade, but also a businessman) of his family's wealth that he has made into the club. I have no problem with that whatsoever. And all would have been OK if it hadn't been for the collapse in asset prices. Very unfortunate timing which sadly left us in the do do. But to doubt his motives, as you seem to do, is in my opinion very wide of the mark. If I was in his position I certainly wouldn't be chucking any more of my family wealth at it, I would be doing exactly what he is doing right now, which is actively pursuing another investor to take some of the strain.

And lets be clear here - if he is successful in attracting that investor it is because the assets the club has, irrespective of the current gearing which admittedly ain't pretty, represent a far better chance of a medium to long term return than an asset poor club, such as the Pigs. And any investor will, of course, want a return. Most clubs are looking for investment at the moment as banks won't lend to football clubs. If we secure it ahead of other clubs it is because we are seen as a good bet for the future.

A question for you, Mic. You seem to hate McCabe. Do you want him out? If so, what is your alternative?

 

[Micalijo]

I know that's your take on it, you've said so before. That is because you seem to be very mistrustful of his motives.

From what I know of the guy (which may, or may not, be rather more than you) perhaps his intentions were, primarily, to develop other income generating assets for the furtherance of the club, but also wanted to take steps to protect as far as possible the investment (yes, investment, he is very definitely a Blade, but also a businessman) of his family's wealth that he has made into the club. I have no problem with that whatsoever. And all would have been OK if it hadn't been for the collapse in asset prices. Very unfortunate timing which sadly left us in the do do. But to doubt his motives, as you seem to do, is in my opinion very wide of the mark. If I was in his position I certainly wouldn't be chucking any more of my family wealth at it, I would be doing exactly what he is doing right now, which is actively pursuing another investor to take some of the strain.

And lets be clear here - if he is successful in attracting that investor it is because the assets the club has, irrespective of the current gearing which admittedly ain't pretty, represent a far better chance of a medium to long term return than an asset poor club, such as the Pigs. And any investor will, of course, want a return. Most clubs are looking for investment at the moment as banks won't lend to football clubs. If we secure it ahead of other clubs it is because we are seen as a good bet for the future.

A question for you, Mic. You seem to hate McCabe. Do you want him out? If so, what is your alternative?

I don't hate McCabe. He's a businessman looking after numero uno. I have no problem with that at all and agree with what you say about protecting family wealth etc. I'm not doubting his motives as such and I sense you are saying I think he is up to somat dodgy which is clearly not the case. I just don't see much of a downside to him of all these property investments being merged with the football club, but there is currently and for the foreseeable future in my opinion, a huge downside to the supporters of SUFC.

Yes I would love to see a new man in charge but it aint happening. I can't offer an alternative.

 

[derrywan]

I'm not tellin yer ................ but i might give yer a clue if yer sort the grass out !

You really should shut your shite on this freehold bollocks. I already proved to you via land registry records that the ground is owned by sufc ltd http://www.s24su.com/showthread.php?15255-For-BB-Bramall-Lane-Freehold-amp-Debt&highlight=Freehold . You are talking out of your arse. I can only wonder at your motives for doing so, but you need to be pulled up on these lies you plant. It's just perverse.

 

[beightonblade]

You really should shut your shite on this freehold bollocks. I already proved to you via land registry records that the ground is owned by sufc ltd http://www.s24su.com/showthread.php?15255-For-BB-Bramall-Lane-Freehold-amp-Debt&highlight=Freehold . You are talking out of your arse. I can only wonder at your motives for doing so, but you need to be pulled up on these lies you plant. It's just perverse.

reading minds ? .............. land registry ............. in the property game are yer ?

 

[derrywan]

Proof game. Evidence game. Not inuendo and easy mudslinging game. This unsupported witchhunt of yours has become tiresome. And for the record I do deal in property. And trusts. and I'm a company director and lawyer. And you still haven't refuted the Legal Facts I presented you with a year ago. Prove what you claim to know if you genuinely know anything.

 

[SwissBlade]

Pleased for you Swiss.
A shame United did something completely different.

And what did united do then lenners?