Are we going to stick with the present formation/system?

[FMBlade1]

That's my main question about what happens next with our new manager. We won't have any money to sign anyone in January, so changing tactics is one of the few cards we have left.

Personally, I would go with:

GK: Fotheringham
LB: Robinson
CB: Anel
CB: Trusty
RB: Baldock
CM: Hamer
CM: Souza
LM: Larouci
RM: Bogle
CF: McBurnie
ST: Archer

Whatever we're doing now clearly isn't working.

 

[DeanLearner'sCat]

I'm not sure we've been playing with any kind of system tbh.

Last time we started with a back 4 we lost 5-0. We conceded 5 in one half against Newcastle playing with a back 4. It doesn't really matter whether you play with 3, 4, 5 or 10 at the back if you're as badly organised and as poor in possession as we have been.

 

[Owd bugger]

That's my main question about what happens next with our new manager. We won't have any money to sign anyone in January, so changing tactics is one of the few cards we have left.

Personally, I would go with:

GK: Fotheringham
LB: Robinson
CB: Anel
CB: Trusty
RB: Baldock
CM: Hamer
CM: Souza
LM: Larouci
RM: Bogle
CF: McBurnie
ST: Archer

Whatever we're doing now clearly isn't working.

Larouci over Macatee silly billy.

 

[ekke287]

If it’s Wilder then yes we’ll be sticking with that system.

Let’s not try anything different eh.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Please no.

As I've posted elsewhere.

4-5-1
4-3-2-1
4-4-1-1
4-2-3-1
4-1-2-2-1

Anything but a three man defence or three man midfield. It doesn't work due to our lack of pace and mobility. We need to flood the midfield to close spaces and be able to make quick snappy passes.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I'm not sure we've been playing with any kind of system tbh.

Agree....we talk about this on the Kop.

We ask each other....does anyone know our system and what we are trying to do?
Then there's usually the reply "the players look like a set of strangers and don't even play as a team"

It's currently an incredibly low bar.

Very confident Wilder can almost instantly improve performances.
Think we'll still lose early matches but at least we'll lose like a team and have some tactics giving more effort and at least trying to win.

Things have been so bad under Hecky a lately that some of us on the Kop have even thought that maybe several weeks back Hecky is totally fed up and wants to be sacked, this attitude has transferred over to the players.

Regards system, you would expect Wilder to have been watching us for many weeks and will try the system that best suits the players.

 

[FMBlade1]

If it’s Wilder then yes we’ll be sticking with that system.

Let’s not try anything different eh.

If that's the case, and I suspect you're right, it seems strange to have him back.

Who knows, perhaps a change in tactics would make things even worse but it would be good to have a manager who is at least open to exploring alternatives.

 

[Bergen Blade]

If it’s Wilder then yes we’ll be sticking with that system.

Let’s not try anything different eh.

In this article just after joining Watford, he claims he's open to playing different formations:

Chris Wilder hints at making significant change from Sheffield United days following Watford appointment

Leer esta noticia en OneFootball.

onefootball.com

Had a look at transfermarkt; he seems to have started with a back three, then changed it:



Results weren't great regardless of formations used, but this may show that he's not as wed to 3-5-2 as we may think?

 

[Bergen Blade]

That's my main question about what happens next with our new manager. We won't have any money to sign anyone in January, so changing tactics is one of the few cards we have left.

Personally, I would go with:

GK: Fotheringham
LB: Robinson
CB: Anel
CB: Trusty
RB: Baldock
CM: Hamer
CM: Souza
LM: Larouci
RM: Bogle
CF: McBurnie
ST: Archer

Whatever we're doing now clearly isn't working.

What would you do vs Liverpool if both Baldock and McBurnie are unavailable?

 

[FMBlade1]

What would you do vs Liverpool if both Baldock and McBurnie are unavailable?

Fair question, but for me the Liverpool game is a write-off anyway so it doesn't matter what we do or who we pick.

Just get through with a 3-0 loss with no injuries and suspensions with a couple of shots on their goal... gosh that's depressing writing that!

 

[Bladesman]

In this article just after joining Watford, he claims he's open to playing different formations:

Chris Wilder hints at making significant change from Sheffield United days following Watford appointment

Leer esta noticia en OneFootball.

onefootball.com

Had a look at transfermarkt; he seems to have started with a back three, then changed it:

View attachment 175629

Results weren't great regardless of formations used, but this may show that he's not as wed to 3-5-2 as we may think?

4-1-4-1 is probably the formation to go with due to the players we have fit and available.

 

[Flumps]

If it’s Wilder then yes we’ll be sticking with that system.

Let’s not try anything different eh.

Paraphrasing Blackadder

Changing our system is exactly what Klopp will expect us to do therefore we stick with the same system he already knows!

 

[Grizzly blade]

You know, I have to laugh when I see comments demanding a back 4…. Like those saying it clearly have no memory of the reason we play it.

As a reminder I will tell you.

*Because the defenders are not quick enough, strong enough, agile enough good enough with the ball or even intelligent enough to manage in a back 4.

We concede from crosses into the box at will despite the extra body in the middle now

The problem is a midfield that lacks mobility, and has teams waltzing through them like they don’t exist and onto the defence. And that won’t change with a back 4 it will simply get worse.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Paraphrasing Blackadder

Changing our system is exactly what Klopp will expect us to do therefore we stick with the same system he already knows!

That pretty much sums up this season under Hecky in a nutshell.

 

[DronnieBlade]

The back 3 or 5 if you count the wider players won’t be changing anytime soon.

Be sure of that.

I can however see some structural changes further forward being deployed.

I’d like to see more pitch time for Osula, Brookes, Beni and Slimane now our relegation is certain.

While his form at the start of this season has been below his normal levels, it is also apparent to me just how much we have missed John Egan. He fulfils a very specific role and function in this side and does what I regard as a highly specialised job to good effect. Usually that is !!

Hamer needs playing deeper. We are making the same mistake with him as we made with Berge. Noticeable how effective Sander was on Satdi in that role.

Like Sander he has the capability of bursting forwards from the deeper lying playmaker position that is simply beyond the current fella in that role, which is a huge disadvantage.

Much work to do for the new manager -all of which should correctly be to position ourselves as strongly as possible for an assault on the Championship next season.

Fuck the PL in 23/24 !

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

You know, I have to laugh when I see comments demanding a back 4…. Like those saying it clearly have no memory of the reason we play it.

As a reminder I will tell you.

*Because the defenders are not quick enough, strong enough, agile enough good enough with the ball or even intelligent enough to manage in a back 4.

We concede from crosses into the box at will despite the extra body in the middle now

The problem is a midfield that lacks mobility, and has teams waltzing through them like they don’t exist and onto the defence. And that won’t change with a back 4 it will simply get worse.

The primary aim of a formational change would be to strengthen that midfield that we agree is so weak. And hope that it would reduce the pressure on the defenders.

Hecky has switched to a back four on a few occasions, but it's more often been an attacking strategy to get us back in a game. Newcastle was one occasion where it backfired. We started with a back four vs Man Utd and at Arsenal. I'd like to see it tried with an even more competitive midfield selection.

 

[Champagneblade]

That's my main question about what happens next with our new manager. We won't have any money to sign anyone in January, so changing tactics is one of the few cards we have left.

Personally, I would go with:

GK: Fotheringham
LB: Robinson
CB: Anel
CB: Trusty
RB: Baldock
CM: Hamer
CM: Souza
LM: Larouci
RM: Bogle
CF: McBurnie
ST: Archer

Whatever we're doing now clearly isn't working.

A lot gets made of the formation.

I find it a bit of a red herring.

The formation doesn’t prevent us stringing together more than 4 passes before turning over possession.

The formation doesn’t prevent us putting in maximum effort to close down the opposition.

The formation doesn’t prevent players from taking responsibility on the field.

How they line up is a small part, what we do with and without the ball once we have is where we are failing.

 

[Bergen Blade]

A lot gets made of the formation.

I find it a bit of a red herring.

The formation doesn’t prevent us stringing together more than 4 passes before turning over possession.

The formation doesn’t prevent us putting in maximum effort to close down the opposition.

The formation doesn’t prevent players from taking responsibility on the field.

How they line up is a small part, what we do with and without the ball once we have is where we are failing.

Wilder's change from 4-2-3-1 to 3-4-1-2 was key to making things click.
Wilder's change from 3-4-1-2 to 3-5-2 helped us carry our Championship form over to the PL
Hecky's change from 5-3-2 to 5-2-2-1 improved results when he first took over from Wilder.
Slav's change to a back four didn't work because we had so many players signed and trained to do one specific role within a very specialised system.
This is still a limiting factor with the current squad.
Almost nobody in England's top two divisions play a back five any more.
Almost nobody in Europe play two central strikers.
There are trends in football, the game evolves and cause some formations to become less effective. We need to stay on top of that.


Despite the above I agree there are ways to make most formations work pretty well. And there will often be more than one formation that can give good results. But formations is still one of many factors it is important to get right to ensure optimal performances.

 

[Grizzly blade]

The primary aim of a formational change would be to strengthen that midfield that we agree is so weak. And hope that it would reduce the pressure on the defenders.

Hecky has switched to a back four on a few occasions, but it's more often been an attacking strategy to get us back in a game. Newcastle was one occasion where it backfired. We started with a back four vs Man Utd and at Arsenal. I'd like to see it tried with an even more competitive midfield selection.

With the ball we had more in midfield, and arguably without the ball we pushed a defender up to close down as well when it was wide.
We don’t have the mobility and defensive strength of midfield players to just stick another in there either.

if we go 4 at the back you have to play one up front or we don’t play McAtee.

442- we do t have the legs and lose the effectiveness of Hamer and McAtee

4141- one up top and McAtee supporting? Souza or Norwood sitting but then whoever isn’t sitting isn’t up to playing that more advanced role. We also lack wingers so play players out of position to fit it.

For me we just dont have the players to play any other way.

 

[Bergen Blade]

With the ball we had more in midfield, and arguably without the ball we pushed a defender up to close down as well when it was wide.
We don’t have the mobility and defensive strength of midfield players to just stick another in there either.

if we go 4 at the back you have to play one up front or we don’t play McAtee.

442- we do t have the legs and lose the effectiveness of Hamer and McAtee

4141- one up top and McAtee supporting? Souza or Norwood sitting but then whoever isn’t sitting isn’t up to playing that more advanced role. We also lack wingers so play players out of position to fit it.

For me we just dont have the players to play any other way.

I would make more radical changes, but I guess it's time to reset our minds now that Wilder is coming in.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

We can 4 at the back so long as the right players are selected in the right roles ahead of them.

4-1-4-1 would work well with Norwood/Slimane/Souza sat in front of the back four in the "Kante" role. Hamer and McAtee can operate in front of them with Hamer in his natural box to box role and McAtee able to push forward to support Archer. Bogle can play wide right and Traore possibly wide left in his natural winger position.

 

[Grizzly blade]

We can 4 at the back so long as the right players are selected in the right roles ahead of them.

4-1-4-1 would work well with Norwood/Slimane/Souza sat in front of the back four in the "Kante" role. Hamer and McAtee can operate in front of them with Hamer in his natural box to box role and McAtee able to push forward to support Archer. Bogle can play wide right and Traore possibly wide left in his natural winger position.

What have you seen from Traore to suggest he deserves a spot in the team?I’ve seen a player miles out of his depth who can’t retain possession, is t that quick, and has poor knowledge of his role in the team.

Kante could run and tackle- but crucially people forget he could also run well with the ball and was quick too. You think any of those three can do that? If you somehow managed to mould all three into one you’d still be miles off!

Bogle might work wide. Assuming he’s not going to be playing right back as Baldock I can only assume went off injured Saturday. And as a right back in a 4 Bogle has been poor.

God this is purgatory.
I’m off until this mess is sorted.

 

[Panini]

Take a breath for a moment - we can talk about systems and formations until we're blue in the face.

Do we really believe he'd have picked a different XI had he been in charge for Saturday?

Fleck and Norwood will be starting so what does anything else matter? It's 2023, I can't believe I'm even typing this shit.

 

[TJ blade]

Take a breath for a moment - we can talk about systems and formations until we're blue in the face.

Do we really believe he'd have picked a different XI had he been in charge for Saturday?

Fleck and Norwood will be starting so what does anything else matter? It's 2023, I can't believe I'm even typing this shit.

I think I'm going to be sick!... Norwood & Fleck. Please let the season end!!

 

[Yoonited]

Please no.

As I've posted elsewhere.

4-5-1
4-3-2-1
4-4-1-1
4-2-3-1
4-1-2-2-1

Anything but a three man defence or three man midfield. It doesn't work due to our lack of pace and mobility. We need to flood the midfield to close spaces and be able to make quick snappy passes.

Didn't Wilder insist on a flat 3 in midfield
Much to the chagrin of many of us.
Be surprised if his tactics change.
I'm more pleased that Knill is back so he can re-instill some innovation,particularly at set pieces.

 

[Tony_Kaufman]

Didn't Wilder insist on a flat 3 in midfield
Much to the chagrin of many of us.
Be surprised if his tactics change.
I'm more pleased that Knill is back so he can re-instill some innovation,particularly at set pieces.

The flat midfield was largely caused by Duffy leaving.

 

[Big Hitter]

Please no.

As I've posted elsewhere.

4-5-1
4-3-2-1
4-4-1-1
4-2-3-1
4-1-2-2-1

Anything but a three man defence or three man midfield. It doesn't work due to our lack of pace and mobility. We need to flood the midfield to close spaces and be able to make quick snappy passes.

Tony - you missed;- -2-3-5- and 1-6-3. I like that last one -can you imagine it.?

 

[coaxingstar71]

What system?
I think the first pre-requisite is to get the players to start doing the basics of winning headers and tackles and at least show some spirit and fight.

Anyway, we're down to bare bones so he'll be left to play a formation and system that fits the players at his disposal.

 

[Ndiayewillalwaysloveyou]

Aren't most of the players still here signed by CW?

 

[Vikkster]

Fair question, but for me the Liverpool game is a write-off anyway so it doesn't matter what we do or who we pick.

Just get through with a 3-0 loss with no injuries and suspensions with a couple of shots on their goal... gosh that's depressing writing that!

Harsh but fair