Are we due a change in style of play?

[Sheffsteel]

Was at the game yesterday and my observations were....midfield doesn't gel....many times it's like we don't have an operational midfield.
It's a million miles away from the Coutts, Fleck, Duffy trio who consistently played simple short, crisp, pass and move possession football.

We've bought Cameron Archer but he hardly touched the ball against Everton.
Incredible that he wasn't involved much in the game but still scored a quality 1st goal and showed high quality assisting the 2nd goal too.

Why did Archer hardly touch the ball?
It's because our tactic was mainly, pass it to Norwood, who sits deeper in midfield and he'll ping it up front into channels for our strikers to run into.
Kept thinking....surely Archer is thinking "will someone just pass the ball to my feet, instead of expecting me to run after the ball all the time".

Hecky must be giving Norwood instructions to play the "Hollywood ball", hit it long into space.
Every now and then it's a great ball but at least 4 times out of 5 it goes straight to their players, so we lose possession far to easily.

The main factor here is that losing possession in the Championship isn't the biggest crime...there's a constant turnover of possession
but in the PL giving up possession too cheaply makes us look poor...and puts us under constant pressure.

In the 2nd half we take the kick-off, pass it back to Norwood, who just pumps it straight towards Pickford and we give up possession.
I'm wondering what is going off....Hecky must agree to this tactic of launching the ball at their keeper straight from a kick-off.

My point is I think we over rely in Norwood to pull the strings and have done for a few years now. It's as though the team instructions are "pass to Norwood" and he'll nearly ALWAYS looks for the difficult, long pass, which usually goes to their player. However of course occasionally it's a great pass and we either score or almost score, probably why he's allowed to keep trying high risk passes...but this doesn't work in the PL.

We all agree that McAtee should be in the starting 11.
So I'm suspecting that McAtee will join Hamer as an exciting attacking midfielder pair, with Vini Souza as a defensive midfielder (on paper a fantastic trio).

If Norwood is dropped then surely this will that mean a change in style?
No other player can play the long passes as well as Norwood, so without Norwood, we'll be playing balls more through midfielder instead of by-passing it.

However I'm not sure if we can play 2 attacking midfielders (McAtee and Hamer) + 2 strikers (Archer and McBurnie) in the Premier League.
This makes us very attacking but then does it leave our defence really exposed with only Vini Souza as a more defensive player?

Would love to know Hecky's ideas on this...he might play 1 up front away from home and play Tom Davies or Slimane as an extra defensive midfielder.
My point is if Norwood is dropped, which is likely...then our playing style will....very likely, totally change into a more possession based passing team.

 

[bladesince64]

I think that Hamer will play more as a defensive(ish) midfielder alongside Souza with Macca further forward behind Archer and McB.

Fodders
Anel. Egan. Jlt
Baldock. Souza. Hamer. Thomas
Macca
McBurnie. Archer.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

Was at the game yesterday and my observations were....midfield doesn't gel....many times it's like we don't have an operational midfield.
It's a million miles away from the Coutts, Fleck, Duffy trio who consistently played simple short, crisp, pass and move possession football.

We've bought Cameron Archer but he hardly touched the ball against Everton.
Incredible that he wasn't involved much in the game but still scored a quality 1st goal and showed high quality assisting the 2nd goal too.

Why did Archer hardly touch the ball?
It's because our tactic was mainly, pass it to Norwood, who sits deeper in midfield and he'll ping it up front into channels for our strikers to run into.
Kept thinking....surely Archer is thinking "will someone just pass the ball to my feet, instead of expecting me to run after the ball all the time".

Hecky must be giving Norwood instructions to play the "Hollywood ball", hit it long into space.
Every now and then it's a great ball but at least 4 times out of 5 it goes straight to their players, so we lose possession far to easily.

The main factor here is that losing possession in the Championship isn't the biggest crime...there's a constant turnover of possession
but in the PL giving up possession too cheaply makes us look poor...and puts us under constant pressure.

In the 2nd half we take the kick-off, pass it back to Norwood, who just pumps it straight towards Pickford and we give up possession.
I'm wondering what is going off....Hecky must agree to this tactic of launching the ball at their keeper straight from a kick-off.

My point is I think we over rely in Norwood to pull the strings and have done for a few years now. It's as though the team instructions are "pass to Norwood" and he'll nearly ALWAYS looks for the difficult, long pass, which usually goes to their player. However of course occasionally it's a great pass and we either score or almost score, probably why he's allowed to keep trying high risk passes...but this doesn't work in the PL.

We all agree that McAtee should be in the starting 11.
So I'm suspecting that McAtee will join Hamer as an exciting attacking midfielder pair, with Vini Souza as a defensive midfielder (on paper a fantastic trio).

If Norwood is dropped then surely this will that mean a change in style?
No other player can play the long passes as well as Norwood, so without Norwood, we'll be playing balls more through midfielder instead of by-passing it.

However I'm not sure if we can play 2 attacking midfielders (McAtee and Hamer) + 2 strikers (Archer and McBurnie) in the Premier League.
This makes us very attacking but then does it leave our defence really exposed with only Vini Souza as a more defensive player?

Would love to know Hecky's ideas on this...he might play 1 up front away from home and play Tom Davies or Slimane as an extra defensive midfielder.
My point is if Norwood is dropped, which is likely...then our playing style will....very likely, totally change into a more possession based passing team.

I can't imagine why the midfield who've played together 3 times, in different combinations haven't gelled already.

 

[Sheffsteel]

Just watching the “fans react” video from Sheffield United way on YouTube.

Young Riley makes a fair point that Norwood must stay in the team because no other midfielder plays “deep lying midfielder” so naturally.
and no other player has the long range of passing.….turning defence into attack.

Agree regards what Norwood gives us. In the early days the “long pass” was a nice option, a secret weapon so to speak.
However I’ve noticed over the last 2 years we overuse Norwoods long pass, when he’s having an off day we look a hoofball team.
We ignore midfield and lump it forward asking forwards to chase the ball.

My point is that, at Championship or league 1 level, playing the glory/ difficult long pass is a reasonably effective tactic.
1 in 5 long passes from Norwood tend to be really effective, so we encourage him to keep trying the long pass.
However at PL level, keeping possession is much more important.
We have spells without the ball, we win it back, pass it to Norwood and he gives it straight back to them so often.

So if Norwood is dropped, then our ability to play effective long balls goes too.
So we’ll have no choice but to change our style and play a shorter pass and move style.

 

[dc_blade]

Good OP and I agree with most of what you said about our lack of identity or a clear tactical plan at the moment. Deadbat said similar things in his excellent report on the game yesterday. I think it was him who made the comparison to the newly-promoted team under Wilder, which had a much clearer identity.

We are reinventing ourselves--Hecky said as much a couple of weeks ago. In the Championship, at our best we relied on a high press, winning the ball back high up the pitch and punishing teams that way. Hecky put a lot of emphasis on quick transitions. Ndiaye and Berge were key to that style of play so we can't do it anymore--or, if we are going to do it, we need to teach it to a new set of players. I reckon it's also an open question whether we have players good enough to do it against Premier League defenders.

Are we going to play through the thirds? You need defenders who are comfortable on the ball (two of our three CBs aren't, really, and even Anel has sloppy moments in this regard) and midfielders who are quick, mobile, good at finding pockets of space, and comfortable receiving the ball in tight quarters. Norwood is okay at this if given plenty of space but is not comfortable being pressed by PL level players and can be frightening when playing facing his own goal. Souza looks more comfortable playing as a water carrier--short simple passes, focusing on his responsibilities off the ball. Hamer is think is probably good enough, Davies may be but we haven't seen him yet and he hasn't played much football in a couple of years.

For now, it'll be about quick transitions, exploiting broken play--hitting McBurnie early and relying on his ability to link play quickly, getting Archer running in behind, or hitting channels, trying to turn defenders, and hoping to build from set pieces and throw-ins the opposition half.

Hopefully, something more coherent will start to emerge from the chaos of our summer transfer window and shocking fitness record. But it might take a while.

 

[Sheffsteel]

I can't imagine why the midfield who've played together 3 times, in different combinations haven't gelled already.

I mean they don’t do much passing to each other…..nothing like the Coutts, Fleck and Duffy midfield.

Would love to see the stats on Norwoods short passing compared to long passing and how often he loses possession.

Note: I’m not criticising Norwood too much because he’s often trying the difficult defence splitting pass, so deserves credit for having that ability, just think he does it too much. Where as someone like Fleck rarely gave the ball away, but it was always a short, easy sideways or backwards pass.

 

[Greasy Chap Butty]

I mean they don’t do much passing to each other…..nothing like the Coutts, Fleck and Duffy midfield.

Would love to see the stats on Norwoods short passing compared to long passing and how often he loses possession.

Note: I’m not criticising Norwood too much because he’s often trying the difficult defence splitting pass, so deserves credit for having that ability, just think he does it too much. Where as someone like Fleck rarely gave the ball away, but it was always a short, easy sideways or backwards pass.

At times yesterday there was too much short passing in crowded areas. It needed pinging out to Thomas free in space. But again, a new squad member.

But, as heckies said a few times, until Friday they didn't know the set up. This is why they aren't a Coutts Fleck Duffy.
How many hours have they played together?
Let them develop.

 

[Pintor75]

We leave acres of space in midfield once a pass is played out, so if the forwards can't hold it up the opposition simply play it into the middle and they regain possession, we need midfielders moving up to support the strikers instead of Norwood hitting it and sten standing and watching. We saw the difference that Doyle and McAtee made in this department, hopefully with McAtee in for Norwood we'll get this

 

[Thrice]

I think that Hamer will play more as a defensive(ish) midfielder alongside Souza with Macca further forward behind Archer and McB.

Fodders
Anel. Egan. Jlt
Baldock. Souza. Hamer. Thomas
Macca
McBurnie. Archer.

I like that team, but I think Hamer definitely needs the freedom to be a box-to-box midfielder. He would be wasted as a CDM.

 

[sitwell]

At times yesterday there was too much short passing in crowded areas. It needed pinging out to Thomas free in space. But again, a new squad member.

But, as heckies said a few times, until Friday they didn't know the set up. This is why the aren't a Courts Fleck Duffy.
How many hours have they played together?
Let them develop.

The one thing I cant stand is pass it around our penalty area from goalkicks, only one club in the country is capable of not making a complete fuck up of this. Why would you want Robbo, Egan and Anel playing posession football with Wes in our box. Insane.

 

[Rudders]

I like that team, but I think Hamer definitely needs the freedom to be a box-to-box midfielder. He would be wasted as a CDM.

We can't ever have a functioning midfield when we play 5 at the back, we would need world class players in each MF position and even then they would get easily overrun at times.
Some teams we will face play 4 at the back and 4 in midfield and then when they have posession one of the full backs moves into central midfield to make a 5. This is against our strict 'flat 3' across the middle.

 

[Kozzy_is_my_Dad]

Yeah.

Less shit, more good. That's the plan.

 

[Frank the tank]

Every team has weaknesses and teams will spend all week working on exploiting those weaknesses
The teams with the lowest budgets will have more weaknesses than the teams with the highest.

Give this side time to gel and cut out the errors at the back and we will be OK

 

[Houston_Blade]

We have changed our style in that we don’t have a ‘pattern’ anymore, we haven’t had since Wilderball died.

This season I can’t see a consistent style that we are employing, it might be because the team has changed each game but it’s a muddle at the moment.

 

[ancientblade]

evertons midfielders were given far too much room in midfield yesterday and i think this is going to happen on a regular basis against teams playing 4 at the back were outnumbered in midfield because of this 3 at the back system we need another body in midfield preferably another midfielder not anel going in there we need to get more possesion in games

 

[Thrice]

We can't ever have a functioning midfield when we play 5 at the back, we would need world class players in each MF position and even then they would get easily overrun at times.
Some teams we will face play 4 at the back and 4 in midfield and then when they have posession one of the full backs moves into central midfield to make a 5. This is against our strict 'flat 3' across the middle.

4 at the back could work with Egan and Anel in the middle, but I'm not sure the LB's and RB's are good enough defensively. Baldock should be, but Bogle isn't, so there would be no backup. Same with the LB position. Lowe and Larouci aren't LB's.