Are We a Good Passing Team?

[metalblade]

I just watch the old Blades Resurrection DVD that team had character, pace, power, strength and bags of ability and skill ...................... I don't see any of these traits in Clough's shower of shit team apart from one or two who were not signed by him.
And then you get fans saying they prefer this way to Warnock's promotion winning team ......... dear oh dear.

 

[Bladesway]

Many reasons that our style doesn't work for us but don't underestimate the god awful pitch. Where I do blame Clough is when balls are bobbling all over the shop and coming in shin high is that he doesn't adopt a more direct style. I'm one who prefers it on the deck but I always remember one of the best teams I ever played in at pub level the manager said walk the pitch then decide how to play. Good teams can play both ways. This I feel is our weakness.

If someone at Sunday league level can decipher that then I would expect anyone at a professional level to do it. It's all very honourable knocking it into feet but if it gets you the sack what is the point?

There are other reasons but these have been covered elsewhere.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

And you have been one of his biggest supporters over the months, indeed until recently, so where does that leave him now. Good point about McCarthy

I have indeed been one of NC biggest supporters, but that doesn't mean I can't alter my opinion. At the beginning of the season Clough deserved to be given time and space and I fully expected him to deliver decent signings and create a team that grew into the season.
No one could have for seen the unsavory nature with Collins/Maguire/Butler but I cannot defend any manager who complete negates the 2nd most important "pairings" on the field. Centre mid is first by a long way and it dictates how you play and the tempo - Centre half pairings need to be absolutely rock solid. If you have a good pairing (with pace) you don't need a deep lying centre mid which gives you more scope in midfield to attack. Don't think I have watched/seen as much football as you, but I consider myself a student of football and watch what ever I can, when I can, and having a solid core is just so fundamental.

I am very very disappointed that any person, responsible for any football team can allow the situation to develop how it has at United. It is the same as running a company without its sales director and hoping the sales executives can sell enough stuff. It just baffles me as to the mentality of it all.

To suggest that "other" players who have grown up as midfield or full backs can suddenly step in on a permanent basis and do an 8 out of 10 job week in week out is just plain bonkers - it isn't going to happen and it is not happening at United.

I fully appreciate Basham does well at CH, but he isn't one and even he has struggled at times. When a player like Basham struggles then I expect his mate at CH to get him out of the shit, but it is not happening as the others are not natural at the position.

I am just so fed up with this simple problem - people on here have complained bitterly about no centre forward and rightly so - I just don't get it why we have played most of the season without recognised centre halves and then people start complaining about shit performances. Last season we had a centre half pairing that worked, despite the pair of them having deficiencies (Maguire/Collins) - on the whole it they just seemed to gel.

I might be on my own with this - but why have we got NO proper centre halves? If we weren't conceding goals it would be ok, but we concede on a regualar basis, and stupid goals at that.......argh,,,,,,,

anyway, rant over............posted with bucket loads of French red wine inside me..........glad I missed the Crewe game.

UTB

 

[blade.i.am]

Explain Scunthorpe to me then.

An aberration, it won't be allowed to happen again

 

[Woodwardfan]

I have indeed been one of NC biggest supporters, but that doesn't mean I can't alter my opinion. At the beginning of the season Clough deserved to be given time and space and I fully expected him to deliver decent signings and create a team that grew into the season.
No one could have for seen the unsavory nature with Collins/Maguire/Butler but I cannot defend any manager who complete negates the 2nd most important "pairings" on the field. Centre mid is first by a long way and it dictates how you play and the tempo - Centre half pairings need to be absolutely rock solid. If you have a good pairing (with pace) you don't need a deep lying centre mid which gives you more scope in midfield to attack. Don't think I have watched/seen as much football as you, but I consider myself a student of football and watch what ever I can, when I can, and having a solid core is just so fundamental.

I am very very disappointed that any person, responsible for any football team can allow the situation to develop how it has at United. It is the same as running a company without its sales director and hoping the sales executives can sell enough stuff. It just baffles me as to the mentality of it all.

To suggest that "other" players who have grown up as midfield or full backs can suddenly step in on a permanent basis and do an 8 out of 10 job week in week out is just plain bonkers - it isn't going to happen and it is not happening at United.

I fully appreciate Basham does well at CH, but he isn't one and even he has struggled at times. When a player like Basham struggles then I expect his mate at CH to get him out of the shit, but it is not happening as the others are not natural at the position.

I am just so fed up with this simple problem - people on here have complained bitterly about no centre forward and rightly so - I just don't get it why we have played most of the season without recognised centre halves and then people start complaining about shit performances. Last season we had a centre half pairing that worked, despite the pair of them having deficiencies (Maguire/Collins) - on the whole it they just seemed to gel.

I might be on my own with this - but why have we got NO proper centre halves? If we weren't conceding goals it would be ok, but we concede on a regualar basis, and stupid goals at that.......argh,,,,,,,

anyway, rant over............posted with bucket loads of French red wine inside me..........glad I missed the Crewe game.

UTB

Good post and I agree about the central defenders, Butler and Collins would have done us proud, hey ho. Kennedy is good for this level too.

In a way I am disappointed that you and supporters like you have come to your conclusions and no longer defend him, because you stuck with the manager so long. As I said in my post, where does it leave the manager and the club now. Clough has got so many things wrong this season it simply spells out to fans, players and the owners that he is nowhere near good enough to do the job at hand. Even if we go up this year the manager has proved he and his cronies are nowhere near good enough to lift us two levels. This sort of management in the Championship would be embarrassing.

Central defence, central midfield, central strikers have been weak all season. Player recruitment has been haphazard with no apparent regard for finding players in specialist positions and building a balanced squad with a mix of types of players including any above six foot. Other clubs with much smaller budgets have done far, far better.

It will cost the club so much to pay off the off-pitch Team Clough and then there are the Clough tag-alongs on the pitch. All on contracts.

In fact I think the cost may be prohibitive and we are stuck with him and them.

As for formations and tactics, if we scored a few more then we could get away with conceding a few. We just do not threaten opposition goalkeepers enough. The Port Vale and Crewe keepers were hardly troubled - not enough men making runs and demanding the ball. Not enough men in the box which seems like a "no go area" in the first half of every game, home and away.

Really sad.

 

[Cyprus Blade]

I might be on my own with this - but why have we got NO proper centre halves? If we weren't conceding goals it would be ok, but we concede on a regualar basis, and stupid goals at that.......argh,,,,,,,

I'd give you another like for this if I could. Spot on.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

I'd give you another like for this if I could. Spot on.

thanks - it just seems beyond normal - but then what this current season has shown is that we don't have a normal manager.

Just hope he pulls off a playoff victory - we just don't need another upheaval.

UTB

 

[SUFC Handsworth]

I've seen it said, mainly by people on here, rather than elsewhere or by fans of other clubs, that we are a good passing team, but are we really?

I've no doubt that we try to pass the ball around and don't tend to hoof for the sake of it. However, there is a difference between being a passing team and a good passing team. A good passing team will regularly create chances through good passing and movement. We do this occasionally at best. Good passing sides cope when they are being closed down quickly by upping their own tempo and tiring the opposition out. We just buckle and lose possession too easily, as was seen yesterday. We pass the ball around a lot when we are allowed to by the opposition. This is why we see a lot of sideways and backwards passes. We are being allowed to do this. We rarely manage to cut through teams because we just don't have the ability or incisiveness to do it. This isn't just the player passing the ball, it's the other blokes who should be making space for the man on the ball to pass it in to.

I think we are a passing team, but we aren't a good one. We lack the vision and movement to be a good passing side. This is down to a combination of players and management. The main problem with this is, when teams do close us down, we don't have the skill to up the tempo, but we don't have the players to alter our style and rough it up a bit either.

We seem to have chosen our direction, wanting to play the ball around on the floor, but before we have a chance of going anywhere with it, we need to get good at it first.

I think we are a good passing side given the chance but the balance of the team doesn't allow it much of the time. We don't have enough enforcers in the team to win the ball to allow the good players to play their football. The lack of leadership and aggression on the park doesn't help the cause for the ball players in the team either. Drop a Maguire and Collins partnership in our current team and we'd have pissed this league, but Nigel would rather muddle through the season with a full back and midfield making do as centre halves. An unbelievably poor management decision imo.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Good post and I agree about the central defenders, Butler and Collins would have done us proud, hey ho. Kennedy is good for this level too.

In a way I am disappointed that you and supporters like you have come to your conclusions and no longer defend him, because you stuck with the manager so long. As I said in my post, where does it leave the manager and the club now. Clough has got so many things wrong this season it simply spells out to fans, players and the owners that he is nowhere near good enough to do the job at hand. Even if we go up this year the manager has proved he and his cronies are nowhere near good enough to lift us two levels. This sort of management in the Championship would be embarrassing.

Central defence, central midfield, central strikers have been weak all season. Player recruitment has been haphazard with no apparent regard for finding players in specialist positions and building a balanced squad with a mix of types of players including any above six foot. Other clubs with much smaller budgets have done far, far better.

It will cost the club so much to pay off the off-pitch Team Clough and then there are the Clough tag-alongs on the pitch. All on contracts.

In fact I think the cost may be prohibitive and we are stuck with him and them.

As for formations and tactics, if we scored a few more then we could get away with conceding a few. We just do not threaten opposition goalkeepers enough. The Port Vale and Crewe keepers were hardly troubled - not enough men making runs and demanding the ball. Not enough men in the box which seems like a "no go area" in the first half of every game, home and away.

Really sad.

You cannot defend the indefensible. I have not given up on Clough but have come to the conclusion that he has some strange methods. He does not communicate things well, other than quite recently when he has said "I wish the fans would trust us". I am quite prepared to trust him to the end of the season, but he seems a prime candidate for having a spin doctor to explain what and why he does things. I suppose as fans we have to expect a few nuances and foibles but he seems to have many in his locker and fans are concerned by "strange" happenings.

At the end of the season the board need to take stock. Promotion is simple to decide. Playoff final defeat might be enough, play off semi losing to whoever and in a manner that is pretty much like the season could see him go.

I actually wish him good luck in the palyoffs as I am convinced we have players that WILL paly better a division higher. I expected him to be more proactive in knowing what it takes to get out of this division and I reckon it is this *as the season has gone on) that has riled fans, me included. Grayson knew what was needed, Clough thought he could play his way out - and to be fair, he might still pull it off.

I one main fear now, is yet another "no show" at Wembley, although I would be more happy with Cloughs cup type mentality that could pull it off.

We move on.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

You cannot defend the indefensible. I have not given up on Clough but have come to the conclusion that he has some strange methods. He does not communicate things well, other than quite recently when he has said "I wish the fans would trust us". I am quite prepared to trust him to the end of the season, but he seems a prime candidate for having a spin doctor to explain what and why he does things. I suppose as fans we have to expect a few nuances and foibles but he seems to have many in his locker and fans are concerned by "strange" happenings.

At the end of the season the board need to take stock. Promotion is simple to decide. Playoff final defeat might be enough, play off semi losing to whoever and in a manner that is pretty much like the season could see him go.

I actually wish him good luck in the palyoffs as I am convinced we have players that WILL paly better a division higher. I expected him to be more proactive in knowing what it takes to get out of this division and I reckon it is this *as the season has gone on) that has riled fans, me included. Grayson knew what was needed, Clough thought he could play his way out - and to be fair, he might still pull it off.

I one main fear now, is yet another "no show" at Wembley, although I would be more happy with Cloughs cup type mentality that could pull it off.

We move on.

UTB

We all desperately hoped Clough was the man but: his brother can't find the players, he doesn't establish a good "spine" to the team, he falls out with good honest pros, he plays negative formations, he has no Plan B, his substitutions are invariably too late and "like for like", he communicates poorly, he is over-sensitive to criticism, his No.2 looks more miserable than even him, he publicly bollocks young players both during and after games, he has a "blame culture" but it's everybody bar him... what else, I'm sure I've missed something?

Actually I don't like "media friendly bullshitters" and at half time at wembley I was the happiest football supporter on this earth. I honestly believed Clough had not put a foot wrong by then.

Second half Wembley was naive. Ever since then it has been a shambles.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

We all desperately hoped Clough was the man but: his brother can't find the players, he doesn't establish a good "spine" to the team, he falls out with good honest pros, he plays negative formations, he has no Plan B, his substitutions are invariably too late and "like for like", he communicates poorly, he is over-sensitive to criticism, his No.2 looks more miserable than even him, he publicly bollocks young players both during and after games, he has a "blame culture" but it's everybody bar him... what else, I'm sure I've missed something?

Actually I don't like "media friendly bullshitters" and at half time at wembley I was the happiest football supporter on this earth. I honestly believed Clough had not put a foot wrong by then.

Second half Wembley was naive. Ever since then it has been a shambles.

I have to disagree with you about the 2nd half at Wembley.

I said to my nipper we had to keep it tight for 20 minutes.......haha, 20 minutes later we are stuffed.

I text a mate and he said that Huddleston had gone to the base of the diamond as well as them going 2 up top.

I am not a fan of Judas Bruce, but think he pulled a master stroke on us by changing team and formation in the dressing room and that is what he is paid for. Don't blame Clough at all, the players were naive in not being able to adjust as it happened. My support of the players is that we were playing a Prem side, and ours were 3rd tier. Hull were just too good for just 20 minutes of the entire game and although we gave it a good go, just fell short.

UTB

 

[Woodwardfan]

I have to disagree with you about the 2nd half at Wembley.

I said to my nipper we had to keep it tight for 20 minutes.......haha, 20 minutes later we are stuffed.

I text a mate and he said that Huddleston had gone to the base of the diamond as well as them going 2 up top.

I am not a fan of Judas Bruce, but think he pulled a master stroke on us by changing team and formation in the dressing room and that is what he is paid for. Don't blame Clough at all, the players were naive in not being able to adjust as it happened. My support of the players is that we were playing a Prem side, and ours were 3rd tier. Hull were just too good for just 20 minutes of the entire game and although we gave it a good go, just fell short.

UTB

Hey Fulwood, we were 2-1 up against a dispirited Hull team, ordinary by Premier League standards.

Mourinho and I would have played 11 men back. We weren't playing Crewe at Bramall Lane. We had distance between our back 4 and our defence and were over-exposed. We should have hung on to our lead and played like Crewe at Bramall Lane, like you say keep it tight for 20 minutes or so and then let them gamble and pick them off.

BTW this does not contradict what I've been saying about Clough's negativity, it's about that elusive Plan B which varies depending on the circumstances.

At Wembley Clough stood in the technical area for the first time in front of Garner. That was a sign he was not on an even keel on the big occasion. IMO he blew it, there would have been no disgrace for a League 1 team getting every player behind the ball to defend the lead. Instead we were more wide open than we had been all season, it beggared belief because Hull were poor.