Another VAR debate…..

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Yet another VAR poll….. Would you welcome the use of VAR in light of recent officiating?

  • Yay…

    Votes: 64 25.8%
  • nay…

    Votes: 157 63.3%
  • Couldn’t give a toss….

    Votes: 20 8.1%
  • Give quiche a chance…

    Votes: 7 2.8%

  • Total voters
    248

Overthehills

Long term sufferer - Ever optimist
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I can’t help but worry about the standard of officiating in recent weeks, what with some very blatant decisions going against us. I get that the rules have been amended in order to allow a degree of physical contact, which in turn would hopefully aid the flow of the game….but still we see highly dubious decisions and large scale inconsistency.

I read that Hecky recently had a meeting at Shirecliffe with EFL refereeing chief Kevin Friend. Apparently the gaffer came away from the meeting enthused and with an overall better understanding of things….but the standards of officiating since have been as bad as they get. You could argue that the poor standard of officiating has directly impacted the overall standard and flow of the game itself!

Whilst you could perhaps argue that a number of influences have gradually transformed the game into an almost zero contact sport, therefore they won’t be used to the sudden changes… I can’t help but feel the level of officiating doesn’t accommodate such changes.

Over time we have come to accept that officials will always have a different interpretation of very similar tackles, based on whether they are inside or outside of the box. But when you have identical challenges in non threatening / neutral positions of the pitch, in which referees are making differing decisions….the you are going to have problems aren’t you.

For instance the Billy Sharp v Hanley incident….. if we disregard the blatant niggly kicks at Sharp and just focus on the initial challenge. Billy does what billy has always done supremely well, in getting himself between the opposition player and the ball and planting his feet. More times than not, this leads to the opposition player bundling him onto the ground and giving away a free kick… Despite the more lenient approach to refereeing, a shove in the back and bundle to the ground like this is still a foul…… yet the referee doesn’t buy it and calls play on.

I guess we would all accept if the referee was consistent in his decision on similar tackles throughout…. But yet a short while later he blows for an almost identical challenge, why?… over in front of the benches, the Norwich lad puts himself in front of Baldock and the ball in a very similar style…. George gives him a mild nudge in the back and the player hits the deck. Yet the referee is very quick to blow up for a free kick. This shouldn’t be happening!… if you are going to let one go, then you have to let them all go. I can only assume that this wasn’t for the tackle itself, but more for the conduct of Baldock?? A player who he had his eye on due to a few earlier exchanges and battles.

Another argument has to be the role of other officials in decision making! In both the Blackpool and the Norwich games, we have seen some highly debatable events taking place right in front of the lino’s….. the referee has then run over and the linesman has failed to give insight? Why?…. What has happened to the days when players would be ushered away and the referee would walk over to the linesman to ask what they saw?? It’s all absolutely pointless…..

So here we go again…… with two games showing the potential benefit of VAR. From penalty shouts, to individual refereeing decisions…… the overall standard is poor and inconsistent, therefore perhaps having a TV to refer to is the answer?…. I know it has its pros and cons, but can it possibly be any worse that the current substandard officiating??
 

Lino's are redundant now .................................. mainly due to VAR. Today you no longer see Lino's attracting the referee's attention to something they have missed they are scared to make decisions in some cases and wait for the referee to make the call. The standards of match officials is worse than poor it is atrocious and getting worse to the point where fans begin to wonder if some ref's have taken bribes when they favour one team so blatantly.
 
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Lino's are redundant now .................................. mainly due to VAR. Today you no longer see Lino's attracting the referee's attention to something they have missed they are scared to make decisions in some cases and wait for the referee to make the call. The standards of match officials is worse than poor it is atrocious and getting worse to the point where fans begin to wonder if some ref have taken bribes when they favour one team so blatantly.
They're in constant communication with the referee about what they've seen via the mics/ear pieces they wear. Just because you don't see them constantly waving a flag around or the ref walking over to talk to them side by side doesnt mean they're not discussing what's happening.
 
Why would anyone want VAR? Kills any enjoyment of a game and often incorrectly (and yet correctly) used. Destroys the atmosphere. Saps all the joy out of the experience. I don't miss not celebrating goals because there was a 25-50% chance of them being ruled out 3 minutes later.
 
VAR is a tough one goals disallowed because the striker was a toenail offside penalties given for innocuous fouls it’s a debate that will go on plenty were for it plenty against if it helps us I love it if it goes against us I hate it football eh
 
They're in constant communication with the referee about what they've seen via the mics/ear pieces they wear. Just because you don't see them constantly waving a flag around or the ref walking over to talk to them side by side doesnt mean they're not discussing what's happening.
I know that buddy but they clearly are not using these mics/ear pieces. Also can anyone explain why they don't flag for offside until the ball goes out of play why are they so scared to put the flag up when players are offside? Is it because VAR might show they have made a mistake, we are all human they used to get more right than they got wrong I would take that every day rather than them making no decision.
 
The game is being played faster than it ever has been and players constantly cheat. I think refs have got more reason to make mistakes than they used to, back in the day, when they were still “fucking rubbish”.
People always talk about consistency. I agree that in any match, the ref should be consistent with their decisions but, when a lot of incidents are open to interpretation and each ref is an individual, it’s not unreasonable that one ref will interpret an incident differently to how another ref interprets a similar incident in another game. Then you have pundits screaming for consistency when, in many cases, they can’t agree between themselves what the outcome should have been.
The managers and pundits are partly to blame for raising expectations above an achievable level, they demand perfection when perfection can never be reached. And use the mistakes made by refs to distract from their own failings.

The result; VAR. which gives better decisions but it hated by the fans. If you want a fast paced game, with few interruptions and players not getting a foul every time they fall over, then you have to accept the ref will make quite a few mistakes in a game. If you want fewer mistakes, then you have to accept VAR. I do agree there are times when linos could get more involved.
 
I know that buddy but they clearly are not using these mics/ear pieces. Also can anyone explain why they don't flag for offside until the ball goes out of play why are they so scared to put the flag up when players are offside? Is it because VAR might show they have made a mistake, we are all human they used to get more right than they got wrong I would take that every day rather than them making no decision.
Yes. They’re told not to flag for marginal decisions and leave it to VAR. Sometimes they still get that wrong.
 
Lino's are redundant now .................................. mainly due to VAR. Today you no longer see Lino's attracting the referee's attention to something they have missed they are scared to make decisions in some cases and wait for the referee to make the call. The standards of match officials is worse than poor it is atrocious and getting worse to the point where fans begin to wonder if some ref's have taken bribes when they favour one team so blatantly.
I've though that for a while, VAR has relegated linos to purely throw-in deciders. They are even encouraging to keep their flags down for offside.
However for non VAR games (still the majority) they're still reluctant to get involved. Linos are fully qualified refs who often have a better view of incidents than the ref.
Why they are not encouraged to get more involved is beyond me. Perhaps there’s a case to have separate officials for VAR and non VAR games
 
The VAR system isnt perfect and I have said it here last season that the Championship need VAR because the standard of refereeing is very bad in this division.
 

There are so many points I agree with, from robbiez666 comments about the inability to celebrate goals, metalblade comments about non existent linesman… and all of the other comments regarding the referee making the final decision.

But with consideration to the above and with consideration towards what BushBlade has said re: faster paced games and the continental game creeping into championship football eg. Dive culture, etc…. How do we improve officiating and ensure a degree of fairness? Because at the minute they are getting it wrong…

But if it wasn’t broken…. We wouldn’t be trying to fix it would we?? And less face it, it’s broken…. Referees are influencing the game negatively.
 
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Used to work with a Lino of a decent level - done a Wembley final so in essence a ‘rated’ official ( albeit in a very shallow pool with an extremely low bar!)
Attended matches ( @ Lane) as his ‘guest’ including witnessing pre match ‘meeting’ with that game’s referee- on each occasion Ref stated explicitly I’m in control, no flag waving, just let me know when ball is ‘out’ ( not even who’s throw it is !)
On one occasion he described getting the mother of all bollockings @ half time for flagging for an (obvious) foul with the referee incandescent because (he said) his ‘authority’ had been undermined
Is it any coincidence many referees appear to be / have been in positions of ‘authority’ (head) teachers, ‘bobbies’ (as was my associate) etc
 
There are so many points I agree with, from robbiez666 comments about the inability to celebrate goals, metalblade comments about non existent linesman… and all of the other comments regarding the referee making the final decision.

But with consideration to the above and with consideration towards what BushBlade has said re: faster paced games and the continental game creeping into championship football eg. Dive culture, etc…. How do we improve officiating and ensure a degree of fairness? Because at the minute they are getting it wrong…

But if it wasn’t broken…. We wouldn’t be trying to fix it would we?? And less face it, it’s broken…. Referees are influencing the game negatively.
Until referee's get hold of the game it will only get worse. Take a look at Rugby and how the referee's are respected no arguing with decisions, no players surrounding the referee trying to intimidate him to ruling in their favour, any back chat from players and they are sent off. And you get to hear the referee explain his decision to the offending player no one is left wondering why he has blown his whistle. Unfortunately this attitude starts at the top of the game, any player abusing referee's should receive a sending off and six game ban from the FA in all competitions. That would instantly give referee's a little more time to make a decision without being surrounded by players trying to run the game. At the moment the tail is wagging the dog.
 
Used to work with a Lino of a decent level - done a Wembley final so in essence a ‘rated’ official ( albeit in a very shallow pool with an extremely low bar!)
Attended matches ( @ Lane) as his ‘guest’ including witnessing pre match ‘meeting’ with that game’s referee- on each occasion Ref stated explicitly I’m in control, no flag waving, just let me know when ball is ‘out’ ( not even who’s throw it is !)
On one occasion he described getting the mother of all bollockings @ half time for flagging for an (obvious) foul with the referee incandescent because (he said) his ‘authority’ had been undermined
Is it any coincidence many referees appear to be / have been in positions of ‘authority’ (head) teachers, ‘bobbies’ (as was my associate) etc

I can believe refs are like that.
 
VAR is shit. On one hand we have posters slagging off other sports like NFL and bemoaning the American influence on our game.. and then there is the clamour for VAR which is only for TV fans.
 
Lino's are redundant now .................................. mainly due to VAR. Today you no longer see Lino's attracting the referee's attention to something they have missed they are scared to make decisions in some cases and wait for the referee to make the call. The standards of match officials is worse than poor it is atrocious and getting worse to the point where fans begin to wonder if some ref's have taken bribes when they favour one team so blatantly.
I agree but if we criticise we should come up with possible solutions. Why anyone takes up refereeing in the current aggressive climate I have no idea, but soon we will have very few left. In the meantime any who would make decent refs are put off so the standard slowly falls.
 
Lino's are redundant now .................................. mainly due to VAR. Today you no longer see Lino's attracting the referee's attention to something they have missed they are scared to make decisions in some cases and wait for the referee to make the call.

That's because they all have mics, they don't need to wave their flag around like a lunatic to let him know they think they've seen something.
 

That's because they all have mics, they don't need to wave their flag around like a lunatic to let him know they think they've seen something.
That doesn’t help the fans in the ground.. but then again, they don’t matter in the new world of football
 

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