And i bet he is on big money

[davidpinder]

Thought we were skint can't afford to bring players in but can afford a new CEO.

"Julian Winter speaks exclusively to BladesPlayer during his first day in the tole of Group Chief Executive Officer"

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Businesses don't tend to run too well without someone in charge.

 

[JJ Sefton]

Blonde haired bloke (was) who was on our books under Bassett. I wonder if weve got jobs lined up for Cliff Powell and Francis Joseph?

 

[Darren]

Businesses don't tend to run too well without someone in charge.

There is an interesting table here showing that in our PL season our turnover more than tripled from 2 seasons before, but our wages/turnover ratio dropped by 10%, which suggests that our players in the PL were not getting that much in wages by PL standards. Although this may possibly due to the fact that the number of employees almost doubled in that period.

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/sheffield-united-football-club-ltd

But look at 2007-08 - turover dropped by £6M, yet wages/turnover ratio increased by 20% and the number of employees by 28! There are no stats subsequent to 07-08, but it looks quite clear that 07-08 was where the financial cess pit started.

 

[Sothall_Blade]

There is an interesting table here showing that in our PL season our turnover more than tripled from 2 seasons before, but our wages/turnover ratio dropped by 10%, which suggests that our players in the PL were not getting that much in wages by PL standards. Although this may possibly due to the fact that the number of employees almost doubled in that period.

http://www.footballeconomy.com/content/sheffield-united-football-club-ltd

But look at 2007-08 - turover dropped by £6M, yet wages/turnover ratio increased by 20% and the number of employees by 28! There are no stats subsequent to 07-08, but it looks quite clear that 07-08 was where the financial cess pit started.

I've been saying it for years. McCabe DID NOT back Warnock with an high enough wage bill in The Premiership.
Sure, he gave him a bit of a transfer kitty to spend but he had to gamble only on players who would fit into a Championship pay structure.
Inevitably, some of the gambles paid off (Hulse, CKR, Stead) and some didn't (Davis, Shelton, Leigertwood).
If he'd been allowed to maintain the wage bill at 67% instead of only 57% of turnover, it would have made a massive difference in the quality of players he could attract.

Instead, McCabe competed in the Premiership on a shoestring budget and then splashed out for the benefit of Robson when it was too late.
Robson was allowed to attract higher-paid players but many of them were over the hill, for short-term benefit and with no resale value (Speed, Ehiogu, Hendrie)
The players Warnock has signed for QPR with an increased budget are solid, proven Premiership players with a few good years left in them yet.
They're very likely to keep QPR up this season and it could have been us if only McCabe had loosened the purse-strings one year earlier.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I've been saying it for years. McCabe DID NOT back Warnock with an high enough wage bill in The Premiership.
Sure, he gave him a bit of a transfer kitty to spend but he had to gamble only on players who would fit into a Championship pay structure.
Inevitably, some of the gambles paid off (Hulse, CKR, Stead) and some didn't (Davis, Shelton, Leigertwood).
If he'd been allowed to maintain the wage bill at 67% instead of only 57% of turnover, it would have made a massive difference in the quality of players he could attract.

Instead, McCabe competed in the Premiership on a shoestring budget and then splashed out for the benefit of Robson when it was too late.
Robson was allowed to attract higher-paid players but many of them were over the hill, for short-term benefit and with no resale value (Speed, Ehiogu, Hendrie)
The players Warnock has signed for QPR with an increased budget are solid, proven Premiership players with a few good years left in them yet.
They're very likely to keep QPR up this season and it could have been us if only McCabe had loosened the purse-strings one year earlier.

Warnock himself has come out on record saying that he didn't buy enough quality when he was in the prem with us, but to my knowledge he has never mentioned restrictions on spending being a factor.

 

[Pedro Verde]

Warnock himself has come out on record saying that he didn't buy enough quality when he was in the prem with us, but to my knowledge he has never mentioned restrictions on spending being a factor.

If you look at what Stoke spent in the 1st January transfer window in the Premiership compared to us you can see where we went wrong. They bought Beattie £4m, Etherington £3.5m and I think Faye for around £2m we spent SFA in comparison

 

[JJ Sefton]

If you look at what Stoke spent in the 1st January transfer window in the Premiership compared to us you can see where we went wrong. They bought Beattie £4m, Etherington £3.5m and I think Faye for around £2m we spent SFA in comparison

Mamadou Seck?

 

[Highbury_Blade]

If you look at what Stoke spent in the 1st January transfer window in the Premiership compared to us you can see where we went wrong. They bought Beattie £4m, Etherington £3.5m and I think Faye for around £2m we spent SFA in comparison

You're missing my point. I believe Warnock fucked up big time in the January Transfer window, but i believe he screwed up through trusting his old habits of buying cheap, not through any restrictions placed on him by McCabe.

 

[judge]

You're missing my point. I believe Warnock fucked up big time in the January Transfer window, but i believe he screwed up through trusting his old habits of buying cheap, not through any restrictions placed on him by McCabe.

our highest earner was phil jagielka on £13k a week

 

[Highbury_Blade]

our highest earner was phil jagielka on £13k a week

And? Where the people that warnock bought worth any more?

 

[Darren]

You're missing my point. I believe Warnock fucked up big time in the January Transfer window, but i believe he screwed up through trusting his old habits of buying cheap, not through any restrictions placed on him by McCabe.

Are you saying that McCabe placed NO restrictions on him? Hmmm.


WARNOCK: Kev I've been speaking to Wayne Rooney, he says he's willing to sign for us.

McCABE: Oh yes, on what terms?

WARNOCK: wages of £150K a week - oh and Man Utd want a £30 million transfer fee.

MCCABE: here's my cheque book, do with it as you will.....

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Are you saying that McCabe placed NO restrictions on him? Hmmm.


WARNOCK: Kev I've been speaking to Wayne Rooney, he says he's willing to sign for us.

McCABE: Oh yes, on what terms?

WARNOCK: wages of £150K a week - oh and Man Utd want a £30 million transfer fee.

MCCABE: here's my cheque book, do with it as you will.....

Don't be stupid.

 

[Darren]

Don't be stupid.

So McCabe did impose restrictions on Warnock and those restrictions governed the quality of player he could afford to buy?

 

[judge]

And? Where the people that warnock bought worth any more?

no ,im just saying that i think their might have been a restriction of around 13,oooo pounds a week being the highest wage

 

[Highbury_Blade]

So McCabe did impose restrictions on Warnock and those restrictions governed the quality of player he could afford to buy?

I have said Warnock bought cheap because he wanted to buy cheap. Nowhere have i said that he had a bottomless pit of money of money to spend.

---------- Post added at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------

no ,im just saying that i think their might have been a restriction of around 13,oooo pounds a week being the highest wage

Fair enough. It's possible. But as i've stated before, Warnock has to my knowledge never cited McCabe being tight as a reason we got relegated from the Premier league.

 

[judge]

I have said Warnock bought cheap because he wanted to buy cheap. Nowhere have i said that he had a bottomless pit of money of money to spend.

---------- Post added at 07:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:53 PM ----------



Fair enough. It's possible. But as i've stated before, Warnock has to my knowledge never cited McCabe being tight as a reason we got relegated from the Premier league.

maybe not directly but he mentioned wages being a stumbling block on many occasions

benny mcarthy being the first one that springs to mind

 

[Darren]

I have said Warnock bought cheap because he wanted to buy cheap. Nowhere have i said that he had a bottomless pit of money of money to spend..

Why on earth would he want to buy cheap? If only for reasons of self interest he would want to buy players likely to keep us up. The fact that our wage bill was only 57% of turnover suggests he was on a pretty tight rein financially.

The same site shows that relegation rivals wages/turnover percentage was as follows:

West Ham 83.6%
Wigan - no figure but 59% the season before and 89.5% the season after so maybe somewhere in between
Fulham - 89.7%
Watford 59.3%
Charlton 95.5%

So lower than everyone else and substantially lower than WHU, Fulham and Charlton

 

[Bladesway]

[/COLOR]

Why on earth would he want to buy cheap? If only for reasons of self interest he would want to buy players likely to keep us up. The fact that our wage bill was only 57% of turnover suggests he was on a pretty tight rein financially.

Because his philosophy has been self protectionist? Throw enough cheap shit at the wall and perhaps some of it will stick? If that fails you can always say you acted in the best interests of the club by not pissing all the money away one one megabucks signing. Whatever, enough people will always stand blindly behind you and say it wasn't your fault.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Why on earth would he want to buy cheap? If only for reasons of self interest he would want to buy players likely to keep us up. The fact that our wage bill was only 57% of turnover suggests he was on a pretty tight rein financially.

Natural instinct.

 

[Bladesway]

maybe not directly but he mentioned wages being a stumbling block on many occasions

benny mcarthy being the first one that springs to mind

There was all that kerfuffle about a contract the week before the most important game in our recent history. Couldn't have had owt to do with unsettling anyone though could it.

 

[Darren]

[/COLOR]

Because his philosophy has been self protectionist? Throw enough cheap shit at the wall and perhaps some of it will stick? If that fails you can always say you acted in the best interests of the club by not pissing all the money away one one megabucks signing. Whatever, enough people will always stand blindly behind you and say it wasn't your fault.

Not sure if you are being ironic but I find it strange idea that a manager, given money to buy expensive players, would then deliberately go out and buy cheap players. That 57% figure suggests he was on a pretty tight budget.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

I find it very odd that given Warnock's fondness for blaming everybody but himself, and also given the enmity that now exists between him and Mccabe he's never blamed transfer budgets for us being relegated (To my knowledge)

 

[judge]

There was all that kerfuffle about a contract the week before the most important game in our recent history. Couldn't have had owt to do with unsettling anyone though could it.

not sure what that has to do with anything except systematic and slightly disturbing warnock bashing ,i get it you dont like him and neither do a lot of people but the bom version of event's is slightly onesided and not very accurate

i ahve often been accused of being a warnock lover but the truth is im just a united lover if anyone does well for my club then they are allright with me ,regardless of style of play or personality

some are far too obsessed with the character of the people in charge and become unable to majke rational judgements on their tenure at the lane warnock blackwell robson and adams have all suffered from this and thats fine but its not really my way

 

[bartman]

I've been saying it for years. McCabe DID NOT back Warnock with an high enough wage bill in The Premiership.
Sure, he gave him a bit of a transfer kitty to spend but he had to gamble only on players who would fit into a Championship pay structure.
Inevitably, some of the gambles paid off (Hulse, CKR, Stead) and some didn't (Davis, Shelton, Leigertwood).
If he'd been allowed to maintain the wage bill at 67% instead of only 57% of turnover, it would have made a massive difference in the quality of players he could attract.

Instead, McCabe competed in the Premiership on a shoestring budget and then splashed out for the benefit of Robson when it was too late.
Robson was allowed to attract higher-paid players but many of them were over the hill, for short-term benefit and with no resale value (Speed, Ehiogu, Hendrie)
The players Warnock has signed for QPR with an increased budget are solid, proven Premiership players with a few good years left in them yet.
They're very likely to keep QPR up this season and it could have been us if only McCabe had loosened the purse-strings one year earlier.

Warnock also wasted money on Horsfield and Akinbyi...his treatment of Horsfield was shockin. Why on earth he let Horsfield o out on loan without a recall clause was unbeleivable and looked a worse decision when Hulse broke his leg

 

[Bladesway]

Not sure if you are being ironic but I find it strange idea that a manager, given money to buy expensive players, would then deliberately go out and buy cheap players. That 57% figure suggests he was on a pretty tight budget.

Depends on which way you spin it Dazzler. I would never say he had a blank cheque by the way. Warnock has always hid behind giving reprobates and bad boys a second chance, taking them under his wing on the cheap (see his latest love Barton) and then if it goes tits up good ol Neil tried his best, or on the occasion (Michael Brown being the overriding success story) its all down to Super Warnock. Even if he is sacked off he can always hide behind being badly treated although he had the clubs best interests at heart.

Warnock never had the balls big enough to take on a big star signing like BT (who he could and should have signed that season) and genuine names never wanted to work with him. He banked on Hulse staying fit and had no cover when he broke his leg, his January cover signings were truly awful (Stead excepted but he got him because he was cheap). FFS, £2m for Sheltoss, Fathi, Seck, an under prepared Matt Kilgallon who wasn't ready for the Premiership (easy for anyone to see). He did manage to spunk in excess of £5m+ up the wall where had he had a big pair he would have gone to Everton, signed BT and we could/would have lived happilly ever after. I use BT as the example by the way. There were others would have come but I doubt Warnock would have put his neck in the noose.

Judge, I'll give you my rational posting on Warnock. Did a good job getting us there and made an utter dogs breakfast of it when we got there. However, I'll never take the promotion season or 02-03 away from him. Some fantastic memories and he brought some great lower league players in (can anyone forget Bullock and his performance at the Sty?).

However, at the top table you get found out if your not good enough. His blunderbus approach to the transfer market doesn't cut it when you HAVE to buy quality and that means paying for quality. Unless its cut price purchases from the last chance saloon he isn't your man. Ken Bates knew that. Manderic knew that. McCabe found that out to his eternal cost.

 

[Darren]

I find it very odd that given Warnock's fondness for blaming everybody but himself, and also given the enmity that now exists between him and Mccabe he's never blamed transfer budgets for us being relegated (To my knowledge)

How about these figures on actuall monies spent on wages by the relegation threatened teams in 2006-07 (from the same site calculated by applying the percentage off turnover spent on wages to the actual turnover figure):

WHU £41.3M
Charlton £34.3M
Fulham £35.1M
SUFC £22.4M
Watford £17.1M

As I said there are no figures for Wigan for 06-07, but their figure for the previous season was £20.9M and the next one £38.3M, so they almost certianly beat United's £22.4M in 06.07.

So there we have it, West Ham having a wages bill almost twice ours and our wage bill being around 2/3 that of Charlton and Fulham. Financially we couldn't even compete with clubs we have always thought were "smaller" than United. It really does look like the money wasn't there.

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:29 PM ----------

Depends on which way you spin it Dazzler. I would never say he had a blank cheque by the way. Warnock has always hid behind giving reprobates and bad boys a second chance, taking them under his wing on the cheap (see his latest love Barton) and then if it goes tits up good ol Neil tried his best, or on the occasion (Michael Brown being the overriding success story) its all down to Super Warnock. Even if he is sacked off he can always hide behind being badly treated although he had the clubs best interests at heart.

Warnock never had the balls big enough to take on a big star signing like BT (who he could and should have signed that season) and genuine names never wanted to work with him. He banked on Hulse staying fit and had no cover when he broke his leg, his January cover signings were truly awful (Stead excepted but he got him because he was cheap). FFS, £2m for Sheltoss, Fathi, Seck, an under prepared Matt Kilgallon who wasn't ready for the Premiership (easy for anyone to see). He did manage to spunk in excess of £5m+ up the wall where had he had a big pair he would have gone to Everton, signed BT and we could/would have lived happilly ever after. I use BT as the example by the way. There were others would have come but I doubt Warnock would have put his neck in the noose.

I could ask for evidence for your assertions, but I think it would be pointless.

 

[Highbury_Blade]

Is anyone arguing that we didn't spend much money on wages in 06-07? I'm certainly not.

 

[judge]

beattie wouldnt have come for £13k a week

 

[Pedro Verde]

You're missing my point. I believe Warnock fucked up big time in the January Transfer window, but i believe he screwed up through trusting his old habits of buying cheap, not through any restrictions placed on him by McCabe.

Im sure if there was a James Beattie / Benni McCarthy available within our wage structure Warnock would have signed them, wages were a big problem for us in attracting players. Of course McCabe placed financial restrictions on Warnock, look at the players hes signing for QPR. The only mananger McCabe trusted with any money unfortunately was Robson