Adding height/strength

[Bergen Blade]

Thought this deserved its own thread as it is a problem for us and something to address in January. We have many small players who are often bullied, so need to add some that helps us cope.

Some examples of players that have done well against us, would any of these be realistic?

Centre half: Haydn Hollis, Notts County. 6'5 commanding defender who seems to be improving. Possibly too expensive?

Right back: Kelvin Mellor, Plymouth. 6'2, quick and athletic, reminded me a bit of Kyle Walker the way he overlapped and got into the box. Made Clough move Murphy from left wing, which is praise for his defensive qualities as well.

Central midfield: Luke Murphy, Leeds. 6'2 central midfielder who's lost his place at Leeds. Highly rated at Crewe, and is supposed to be available on loan.

Forward: Michael Smith, Swindon. 6'4 striker with 18 goals in 40 league games for Swindon. Clough admitted he dominated our centre halves when we lost heavily to them this season. Quicker than most strikers of that size.

Forward: Chris O'Grady, Brighton. 6'2 and very strong. I think he's done well and would like us to sign him permanently or extend his loan.

More suggestions?

 

[Silent Blade]

 

[groveblade]

Michael Higdon's a big strong lad ;-)

 

[SE1Blade]

Toumani Dougoraga (apologies for spelling) of Brentford. Central midfield. Not starting regularly and knows this division.
Harry Maguire (loan).
Greg Halford. Forest. Central midfield, right midfield or right back.

 

[Woodwardfan]

A bloke called Butler playing at Donny, alongside another bloke called Collins.

 

[Fulwood Blade]

Thought this deserved its own thread as it is a problem for us and something to address in January. We have many small players who are often bullied, so need to add some that helps us cope.

Some examples of players that have done well against us, would any of these be realistic?

Centre half: Haydn Hollis, Notts County. 6'5 commanding defender who seems to be improving. Possibly too expensive?

Right back: Kelvin Mellor, Plymouth. 6'2, quick and athletic, reminded me a bit of Kyle Walker the way he overlapped and got into the box. Made Clough move Murphy from left wing, which is praise for his defensive qualities as well.

Central midfield: Luke Murphy, Leeds. 6'2 central midfielder who's lost his place at Leeds. Highly rated at Crewe, and is supposed to be available on loan.

Forward: Michael Smith, Swindon. 6'4 striker with 18 goals in 40 league games for Swindon. Clough admitted he dominated our centre halves when we lost heavily to them this season. Quicker than most strikers of that size.

Forward: Chris O'Grady, Brighton. 6'2 and very strong. I think he's done well and would like us to sign him permanently or extend his loan.

More suggestions?

Have been wanting 2 x centre halves for a while now.

Saw Luke Murphy down at BDTBL when they drew a couple of years back. He then went to leeds for £1M I think. He ran the Crewe midfield that game and for most of the season and looked very impressive. No doubt money bags (haha) Leeds can't afford him now - would he and his agent be prepared to drop? Think that is the big question for all the signings.

We certainly need somebody who is commanding.

UTB

 

[Grappler]

When I saw Andy Butler, before he joined us, he reminded me of Morgan, not the tallest bloke but a solid build, no nonsense. I thought he was awful against Burton, pre season, and cost us the first, if not first two goals. I am sure that was a one off, we should bring him back and assess him.

Higdon was probably not our first choice, but he is a big lad, needs to get busier on the pitch or he will never get off the bench. O'Grady looks like a real grafter, powerful build (stands out like a sore thumb when the teams line up before kick off, next to the rest of our lads)

 

[Kempy]

Thought this deserved its own thread as it is a problem for us and something to address in January. We have many small players who are often bullied, so need to add some that helps us cope.

Some examples of players that have done well against us, would any of these be realistic?

Centre half: Haydn Hollis, Notts County. 6'5 commanding defender who seems to be improving. Possibly too expensive?

Right back: Kelvin Mellor, Plymouth. 6'2, quick and athletic, reminded me a bit of Kyle Walker the way he overlapped and got into the box. Made Clough move Murphy from left wing, which is praise for his defensive qualities as well.

Central midfield: Luke Murphy, Leeds. 6'2 central midfielder who's lost his place at Leeds. Highly rated at Crewe, and is supposed to be available on loan.

Forward: Michael Smith, Swindon. 6'4 striker with 18 goals in 40 league games for Swindon. Clough admitted he dominated our centre halves when we lost heavily to them this season. Quicker than most strikers of that size.

Forward: Chris O'Grady, Brighton. 6'2 and very strong. I think he's done well and would like us to sign him permanently or extend his loan.

More suggestions?

Luke Murphy is a good shout, decent, clever player on the ball with a bit of strength as well. Only issue with him coming is it would only further pack an already highly saturated midfield.

Then again, IMO he is better than a few of the lads we already have. We'd need to ship a couple out first.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Thought this deserved its own thread as it is a problem for us and something to address in January. We have many small players who are often bullied, so need to add some that helps us cope.

Some examples of players that have done well against us, would any of these be realistic?

Centre half: Haydn Hollis, Notts County. 6'5 commanding defender who seems to be improving. Possibly too expensive?

Right back: Kelvin Mellor, Plymouth. 6'2, quick and athletic, reminded me a bit of Kyle Walker the way he overlapped and got into the box. Made Clough move Murphy from left wing, which is praise for his defensive qualities as well.

Central midfield: Luke Murphy, Leeds. 6'2 central midfielder who's lost his place at Leeds. Highly rated at Crewe, and is supposed to be available on loan.

Forward: Michael Smith, Swindon. 6'4 striker with 18 goals in 40 league games for Swindon. Clough admitted he dominated our centre halves when we lost heavily to them this season. Quicker than most strikers of that size.

Forward: Chris O'Grady, Brighton. 6'2 and very strong. I think he's done well and would like us to sign him permanently or extend his loan.

More suggestions?

Why didn't Mr Clough or his brother think of this preseason . This is the common sense , logical approach that gets you promoted , out of league 1 .We would not then , all be waiting with baited breath , and then if they come in January , waiting until April until they are fit , or get bedded in.

Good manager Mr Clough , but he has a lot to answer for .

UTB

 

[Bergen Blade]

Why didn't Mr Clough or his brother think of this preseason . This is the common sense , logical approach that gets you promoted , out of league 1 .We would not then , all be waiting with baited breath , and then if they come in January , waiting until April until they are fit , or get bedded in.

Good manager Mr Clough , but he has a lot to answer for .

UTB

To be fair to him, I think this may have been his original plan for fielding a strong, physical team:

Howard
Alcock Collins Butler McEveley
JCR Basham Doyle Wallace Murphy
Higdon

... where all the back four are solid and good in the air. The central midfield trio are strong in the tackle and both Basham and Wallace are decent in the air, while Higdon was supposed to be an ox up front. On paper that looked quite strong.

But Collins and Butler soon fell out of favour. Basham and McEveley have moved to centre half. Wallace and Alcock have been injured, All the latter four have been replaced by smaller, weaker options. Higdon hasn't showed any particular strength and has been bullied as much as anyone. So in the end we've been left with two reasonably strong centre halves (though, for centre halves, they aren't very strong), which all teams have. O'Grady is a welcome addition though.

 

[Punk Blade]

Central midfield: Luke Murphy, Leeds. 6'2 central midfielder who's lost his place at Leeds. Highly rated at Crewe, and is supposed to be available on loan.

Forward: Michael Smith, Swindon. 6'4 striker with 18 goals in 40 league games for Swindon. Clough admitted he dominated our centre halves when we lost heavily to them this season. Quicker than most strikers of that size.

If we brought in those two we'd be a completely different team. Can't see why Swindon would be prepared to sell when they are chasing promotion. Murphy would be a shrewd move if he would come back to L1 for more match time.

 

[RealMcCoy]

To be fair to him, I think this may have been his original plan for fielding a strong, physical team:

Howard
Alcock Collins Butler McEveley
JCR Basham Doyle Wallace Murphy
Higdon

... where all the back four are solid and good in the air. The central midfield trio are strong in the tackle and both Basham and Wallace are decent in the air, while Higdon was supposed to be an ox up front. On paper that looked quite strong.

But Collins and Butler soon fell out of favour. Basham and McEveley have moved to centre half. Wallace and Alcock have been injured, All the latter four have been replaced by smaller, weaker options. Higdon hasn't showed any particular strength and has been bullied as much as anyone. So in the end we've been left with two reasonably strong centre halves (though, for centre halves, they aren't very strong), which all teams have. O'Grady is a welcome addition though.

"Collins and Butler soon fell out of favour" seems to be where it all starts to go wrong. That's what I (and others) don't understand about NC's management. And no real explanation from him.

 

[Sheff de party]

"Collins and Butler soon fell out of favour" seems to be where it all starts to go wrong. That's what I (and others) don't understand about NC's management. And no real explanation from him.

To be fair i watched Butler play for Donny on boxing day and he looked very average. I don't think he'd add much. And yes he scored but anyone would have scored that.

 

[Revolution]

I have been worried about this since Revolution Jr asked me during the Fenerbahce friendly why so many of our players were small.

Scrappy midgets do not get you out of this league.

I don't know about the centre half situation, but in midfield Clough has wilfully put himself in a bind by having the following options for centre mid:

Doyle: having a decent year but can't play in a 2 unless he has someone strong and creative next to him. Never scores or assists.
Basham: fish out of water. Never scores or assists
Wallace: has looked good when he is fit. Unfortunately he is never fit. Not scored.
Scougall: scrappy midget. 1 goal, 1 assist, playing very poorly.
Reed: Scougall without the goal but with better form. Not deemed able to play 2 games in a row.

2 of these players in a 2 man central midfield will create nothing and get overrun. 3 of them won't get overrun but they have created next to nothing, and of course they tie us to 1 up front, which also means less goals.

And I don't think Berg's expected team is correct. Scougall is an automatic selection despite his poor form, and has been most of the season.

This was a major error where pre season recruitment was concerned.

 

[Bergen Blade]

And I don't think Berg's expected team is correct. Scougall is an automatic selection despite his poor form, and has been most of the season.

I didn't say that was his first choice team, but that eleven shows that he could turn to a certain set of players if he deemed it necessary for us to be strong and physical, i.e. there was that option within the squad he started the season with. For various reasons our line ups have become very different.

 

[Bladesway]

If we brought in those two we'd be a completely different team. Can't see why Swindon would be prepared to sell when they are chasing promotion. Murphy would be a shrewd move if he would come back to L1 for more match time.

Slap enough on the table and everyone has their price. We should be putting bids in that stop clubs laughing at us and make them make a difficult decision. Until we start doing this we won't get the players.

 

[Punk Blade]

Slap enough on the table and everyone has their price. We should be putting bids in that stop clubs laughing at us and make them make a difficult decision. Until we start doing this we won't get the players.

I'm not sure that's true. Being in the Championship next season will be worth more than a fellow League One club would offer for a player. But our board don't understand that concept, nor do they understand your suggestion that enough money will make anyone listen. Putting it in those words makes me think we'll never get promoted again.

 

[raul]

Knowing, as he must have done, he needed to replace Brayford, Maguire and Coady, he couldn't have got it more wrong with Alcock.Butler and Wallace. The spine of the side that played so well replaced with three players who can't even get picked for various reasons, so all downhill from the outset.

Now you can look at this as proof he shouldn't be given any more money to waste, but were they really his first picks ? In January, it's pretty much back him with the funds for players he wants - time to blow the budegt if need be - or sit on our hands, make do and mend and spin some lines about keeping our money for rebuilding in summer.

Wonder what we'll do?

And just for Bergs, his favourite player in the whole wide world's former sidekick - Robert Huth - isn't getting any gametime at Stoke.

 

[Bladesway]

I'm not sure that's true. Being in the Championship next season will be worth more than a fellow League One club would offer for a player. But our board don't understand that concept, nor do they understand your suggestion that enough money will make anyone listen. Putting it in those words makes me think we'll never get promoted again.

At least you make the club make a decision on a player you want. That decision may be no but at this point I don't believe we are even putting clubs in that situation.

 

[Darthblade]

If we brought in those two we'd be a completely different team. Can't see why Swindon would be prepared to sell when they are chasing promotion. Murphy would be a shrewd move if he would come back to L1 for more match time.

But surely if we offered, say 50% of their value, they would be compelled to sell to us wouldn't they ?? That's the way it works isn't it ?
UTB & FTP

 

[JohnDenver]

Knowing, as he must have done, he needed to replace Brayford, Maguire and Coady

You could take the three best players out of any team and they'd be very likely to struggle. So looking at things in the round, over the course of a year, Clough inherited a team facing relegation, saved it, then lost his three best players. So our position now shouldn't be a great surprise, disappointing as it is.

With regard to Clough's signings, Freeman was clearly his first choice ahead of Alcock. CoG was his choice ahead of Higdon. And Wallace was (I imagine) his first pick all along. So if he's given the means to get his man, I've no concerns whatsoever. If he's left filling gaps from the bargain bucket then we're screwed.

The fact we didn't invest too heavily in the summer makes it seem very unlikely we'll do so now. So it looks like more patience is required...

 

[wizadry]

So it looks like more patience is required...

 

[Kenilworth]

All the pieces of the jigsaw are there. It's just that they are from separate jigsaws and probably inappropriate for this league.
This one up front nonsense is killing us and leaving players on the bench, who are the only ones to score - then giving one of them 5 mins to see if they can alter the result or reduce a point for us is perhaps the most perplexing aspect of all of this.

 

[Bergen Blade]

Knowing, as he must have done, he needed to replace Brayford, Maguire and Coady, he couldn't have got it more wrong with Alcock.Butler and Wallace. The spine of the side that played so well replaced with three players who can't even get picked for various reasons, so all downhill from the outset.

Now you can look at this as proof he shouldn't be given any more money to waste, but were they really his first picks ? In January, it's pretty much back him with the funds for players he wants - time to blow the budegt if need be - or sit on our hands, make do and mend and spin some lines about keeping our money for rebuilding in summer.

Wonder what we'll do?

And just for Bergs, his favourite player in the whole wide world's former sidekick - Robert Huth - isn't getting any gametime at Stoke.

Didn't know Diego Maradona played for Stoke!

 

[Pedro Verde]

We were never going to replace Brayford he is a top end Championship player and probably would have done ok in the Prem
We signed Butler who should have been a decent replacement for Maguire, we all know what happened there
We signed Wallace when we were quoted a £1m for Coady which was a gamble considering his injury record
Add to the fact that Murphy, Scougall and to an extent Flynn have not recaptured their form from the second half of last season
it is no wonder we are struggling, we are 5 maybe 6 players down who were all in great form at the end of last season