A yank who would appreciate some SUFC culture- and general football schooling

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TBW57 said:
This might help:


GUIDE TO THE SHEFFIELD DIALECT


The Old English words thee, tha and thy all appear in Noonan’s work but are, especially in his early writing, usually written and pronounced with a d rather than a th and sometimes shortened to di or dy. Similarly, other words which are normally spoken with a hard th, such as this or that are likely to be rendered as dis and dat. It is for this reason that Sheffield people are known as Dee Dahs.


T’ is almost always unpronounced and is simply a very short gap between two words in place of the. And is shortened to ‘n and of to a. The g at the end of words such as thinking is always silent and consequently does not appear in the dialect poems.


The diphthongs oa and ea are, on the other hand, lengthened and become two syllables. If words begin with an h this is not pronounced. Therefore, home becomes ooam and head is eead. Ow, as in now, becomes ah, as in nah.


O sounds are usually changed to aw and those ending in y or ie altered to eh. Hence postie becomes pawsteh as in Noonan’s sonnet of the same name.


The Sheffield oo sound is unique to the city. It is both flatter and longer than in the rest of the country and this is why Noonan distinguished English words like do and you by spelling them doo and yoo.


The word or is usually altered to else. Proper Dee Dahs never die; they dee. Want and what (spelled wat) rhyme with ant and bat.


As in some other parts of Northern England, but is not a simple conjunctive as in normal English but is a sentence all by itself. Whereas an English speaker might say “I don’t like beetroot but I like celery”, in Dee Dah dialect this would be “Ah dooant like beetroot. But. Ah doo like celereh”. While a reader might expect the word but to rhyme with soot this is surprisingly not the case; but is pronounced as a shorter version of Bert.


Work, wash, worse and worth become weck (or graft), wesh, wess and weth in Noonan’s poetry. Rather (than) is sooner and since, at the end a sentence, means ago. Till/until becomes while.


If there’s owt else tha dunt understand tha can weck it aht fah thissen.
Click to expand...

Using 'while' rather than 'until' still perplexes Mrs SEB. As does 'if tha starved put a cooat on!' and 'gerrus a bag o spice'

(for our American friend, starved = cold and spice = sweets or candy)
 
UnitedBlade said:
And watch the film "When Saturday Comes" and imagine Sean Bean is a chef at some point.
Click to expand...

And also make sure he says bastard a lot. Have I mentioned that yet? In fact, go one step further and make him only able to say bastard.

In conclusion, I believe the chef should say bastard at some point in the book.
 
Football in England is very tribal, every tribe hates every other tribe , but some tribes are considered beyond the pale, this usually depends on geographic proximity, the closer the other tribe the more they're hated as they compete for the same scarce resource e.g. fans, financial backing
 
Ho Soccer Mom! :eek:

A bit of reading to get you started here. Also get 'Among The Thugs' by Bill Buford (a fellow American). You'll think he's exagerrating the violence and craziness that overcomes England on any Saturday during the football season. He isn't.
 

super_pig said:
heh.. the 't'.. that one confuses the crap out of my European friends.. so much so that i now tend to explain it to new people before the conversation starts :)
Click to expand...

It's called a glottal stop: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glottal_stop

Jennifer - Apologies if you already know all this.

I'm assuming there won't be a great deal of dialect involved so as to appeal to a broad audience. But one thing that grates as an avid reader is when an American writes an English character but has them using American colloquialisms or terms. Even for "standard English", I'd hazard some American writers feel they are having to relearn a language they thought they had spoken all their lives and that becomes doubly complicated when attempting to place a character geographically in the UK and it come across as authentic.

A specific example for your character. An English meal would involve a starter, main and dessert/pudding... only really pretentious places would refer to entrées (which means starter - I understand it used to mean "main course" in some parts of America) and only American restaurants would say "appetizer".

It does stand out... two countries separated by a common language and all that. I would ensure you have a friendly Anglophone on hand to check for any oddities before publication.

In terms of football fans, we are almost universally creatures of habit. We tend to meet the same people, in the same pubs, drink the same drinks, leave at the same time and sit in the same seats from August to April/May when the season ends.

Language tends to be "industrial"... as you may have gathered if you read the forum... as football evokes strong emotions. If he's a Blade, your chef will be battered and a bit world-weary. It comes with the territory (both being a Unitedite and being a chef... most of the ones I've worked with have been miserable sods :D).

cahill said:
Mmmm. On reflection has to be a wind up
Click to expand...

No... it doesn't. I can vouch for the veracity of the OP thanks to the limited checks we do on allowing new members through.

People are very unduly cynical of new members... not a very Sheffield welcome.
 
Last edited:
Jennifer.

When you sell the film rights to your novel be sure & stick to your guns. When the BBC dramatized A Very British Coup they turned Harry Perkins from a Blade into a Pig :mad:
 
Alfreton14Blade said:
Anyone tried to explain the offside law yet?
Click to expand...

The "offside rule" explained for women:

You're in a shoe shop, second in the queue for the till. Behind the shop assistant on the till is a pair of shoes which you have seen and which you must have.

The female shopper in front of you has seen them also and is eyeing them with desire. Both of you have forgotten your purses. It would be rude to push in front of the first woman if you had no money to pay for the shoes.

The shop assistant remains at the till waiting.

Your friend is trying on another pair of shoes at the back of the shop and sees your dilemma. She prepares to throw her purse to you.

If she does so, you can catch the purse, then walk round the other shopper and buy the shoes!
At a pinch she could throw the purse ahead of the other shopper and "whilst it is in flight" you could nip around the other shopper, catch the purse and buy the shoes!

BUT, you must always remember that until the purse has "actually been thrown", it would be plain wrong for you to be in front of the other shopper and you would be OFFSIDE!

Simples and with apologies to Linz
 
TBW57 said:
This might help:


GUIDE TO THE SHEFFIELD DIALECT


The Old English words thee, tha and thy all appear in Noonan’s work but are, especially in his early writing, usually written and pronounced with a d rather than a th and sometimes shortened to di or dy. Similarly, other words which are normally spoken with a hard th, such as this or that are likely to be rendered as dis and dat. It is for this reason that Sheffield people are known as Dee Dahs.


T’ is almost always unpronounced and is simply a very short gap between two words in place of the. And is shortened to ‘n and of to a. The g at the end of words such as thinking is always silent and consequently does not appear in the dialect poems.


The diphthongs oa and ea are, on the other hand, lengthened and become two syllables. If words begin with an h this is not pronounced. Therefore, home becomes ooam and head is eead. Ow, as in now, becomes ah, as in nah.


O sounds are usually changed to aw and those ending in y or ie altered to eh. Hence postie becomes pawsteh as in Noonan’s sonnet of the same name.


The Sheffield oo sound is unique to the city. It is both flatter and longer than in the rest of the country and this is why Noonan distinguished English words like do and you by spelling them doo and yoo.


The word or is usually altered to else. Proper Dee Dahs never die; they dee. Want and what (spelled wat) rhyme with ant and bat.


As in some other parts of Northern England, but is not a simple conjunctive as in normal English but is a sentence all by itself. Whereas an English speaker might say “I don’t like beetroot but I like celery”, in Dee Dah dialect this would be “Ah dooant like beetroot. But. Ah doo like celereh”. While a reader might expect the word but to rhyme with soot this is surprisingly not the case; but is pronounced as a shorter version of Bert.


Work, wash, worse and worth become weck (or graft), wesh, wess and weth in Noonan’s poetry. Rather (than) is sooner and since, at the end a sentence, means ago. Till/until becomes while.


If there’s owt else tha dunt understand tha can weck it aht fah thissen.
Click to expand...
Wor abart Skoyal?
 
If you want to know what meks us tick the goooooogle Tony Currie, Alan Woodwaaaard, Trevor Hockey, Joe Shaw and Beautiful Downtown Bramall Lane. Once done remember "cut me and do I not bleed..Red!"

Born a blade forever a blade. Born an owl forever a pig.
 
Jenifer - I don't want to get all twisted about this - but - - the usual treatment us Brits get as characters in American books and film is either as the bad guy - or as the bloke who loses out to the all American hero in the final chapter. I hope you've seen from the forum so far that we're a pretty open and helpful bunch of ordinary working class people (think Pittsburgh) and we don't deserve to have the piss taken out of us or to be made the fall guy of another Yank self affirming story at our expense. Please tell us you'll treat your/our character decently.

(Its a bit raw at the moment what with your esteemed President claiming with no evidence at all, that our people spied on him - and then his classy son weighing into the (Muslim) Mayor of London within hours of the Westminster Attack. We've had enough piss taken out of us without helping write a novel that just adds even more)
 
Why a chef from Sheffield Jennifer? And why a United fan? If you're not a fan of either versions of football what made you think of a Sheffield United supporting chef as a character? And is it relevant to the story or just colour? (I'm not asking for you to reveal the plot or anything, I'm just curious about the creative process).
 

Blade for Sale said:
Your chef will be a no nonsense down to earth type who doesn't ponce his dishes up and rip of his punters with 50 grams of food presented in the middle of a 2ft diameter plate.
His cutlery will, of course, be of the finest Sheffield steel, pride of place being 2 crossed scimitars mounted on the wall and only ever used for his signature dish, roast owl.
A sub plot to your main novel could be an underlying taste to all his savoury dishes which many try to imitate but never quite succeed. On the last page, as you pan away from his selection of finest Yorkshire ales, will be a small bottle filled with a black liquid, an orange label revealing the word 'Hendersons'.

If you want my advice you'll get yourself over for a fortnight, take in a match and contact SUFC. I'm sure someone at the club would arrange something for you, and if you drop a note on here in advance you'll find plenty of people willing to buy you a pint pre and post match and take you through the finer points of our great club and city. All the best!
Click to expand...


Just watch out for LYDON
 
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