A part of where we are going wrong

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bricktop

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I have always had a footballing principle and idea that I always thinks works, and forms the basis of most successful clubs, and that is that all the best times have a solid spine to the team.

You start by having a strong, solid goalkeeper upon whom all the back 4 can rely upon and gives confidence to.

At the heart of the back 4 you have a big, solid strong defender, who is not afraid to put his head where it hearts, who provides leadership to the back 4, and the rest of the team. He doesn't have to be a centre half who likes playing the ball out of defence, or capable of playing killer 60 yard passes. All he is in the team to do is do the simple things well and effectively.

In the middle of the park you have an energetic and harrying midfielder who will get stuck in, hassle the opposition, not give any opposition any time on the ball, and can be relied upon to win the ball in the middle of the park, and get it out of the mixer and get it to players with more creativity and capability to get the ball in to positions where you can launch an attack and actually create chances.

Finally up top you have a player who is strong, provides a decent ariel threat, but who is also clever and who can make the runs that pull opposing players out of position to create space, and who has the strength and physical prowess to win the ball and also hold it up and play it to other players around him.

These players are the sort of players who don't win many plaudits for their style of play but are players who can be relied upon to do the dirty work, players who you need to provide leadership, set an example and provide a strong spine to a team which is the base upon which you have bring in other players who can play good attractive football.

At the minute we have the goalkeeper in George Long who is quickly learning his trade and looks experienced beyond his year.

At the back we have Maguire and Collins. I think that Collins is past his shelf life at the Lane. I don't see him as a leader, and I don't really see him taking any on any responsibility, and I don't think he sets an example to the younger more talented Maguire whose career I think has stalled badly in the last 18 months or so.

In the middle of the park you have Michael Doyle who I personally think is the rotten egg in the team, he is the club captain and I get the impression that this is a role where he leads not through example but telling other what they should be doing and dishing out the bollockings but with Doyle he appears as a leader that is very much whose leadership style is do as I say, rather than do as I do, and anyone who has ever been a leader, or operated under this style of leadership knows that this doesn't either inspire or fill with confidence and individuals operating under this style of leadership go in to self preservation mode where they are unable to take responsibility for their own actions due to the fear of being singled out for criticism of they make a mistake.

Up front I do think that Porter can play a role within this team, as he is a lot more intelligent footballer than people think, but I seriously don't think he fits in to the style of play we have, and suffers from a lack of service, and also from having someone up front alongside him who he can play off and build a partnership with.
 

agree with what you say mostly.the only players I would keep are.long,maguire and brandy.

the 2 young ones have bags of potential and are easily league 1/championship players in my eyes.as for brandy he's the only one in the team from who seems to have any creativity at all.

if we can get 2 strikers tho with the current squad I still think weir could still save himself.Jay Simpson and Evan-Blake,free transfers get them in.
 
At the moment the only players I would keep would be.

Long
McMahon
Maguire
Hill
Cueliver
Baxter

The first thing has to be getting rid of Doyle

Interesting that for me Doyle has been one of better players this season and not hid.

He was far superior to Cuvelier; McGinn and also maybe Baxter at Carlisle. Was not impressed by Cuvelier. Looked like when going got tough he did not want to know. Early doors yet.

I think Doyle is useless by the way and will be glad when all the 'losers' such as him, Collins etc have left the club.

McMahon has been poor this season. At Bradford the other week he got skinned time after time. He gave away a pen last week and was poor again yesterday.

Hill is steady. He is the best of the 37 full backs we have at the club.
 
It shows how shite we've been when Doyle is the outstanding player on the pitch. It's like being served eleven turds on a platter and being asked to pick the tastiest one.
 
It shows how shite we've been when Doyle is the outstanding player on the pitch. It's like being served eleven turds on a platter and being asked to pick the tastiest one.


He is my host hated player of all time and he is our club captain. People ask how we got where we are today, well Michael Doyle is our club captain
 
pl
He is my host hated player of all time and he is our club captain. People ask how we got where we are today, well Michael Doyle is our club captain
Have you met him and been offended by him, hence the 'hate'?
You may not rate him as a footballer (I've seen a lot worse in my time) and also not enamoured by his niggly, nasty style (its a minefield out there and he's a survivor), but as he's played over 400 league games he can't be that bad or somebody might have rumbled him by now. However, hating someone as a result of your perception of their football abilities is a tad strong don't you think? (Oh and I think he's not too bad a skipper too;))
 
pl
Have you met him and been offended by him, hence the 'hate'?
You may not rate him as a footballer (I've seen a lot worse in my time) and also not enamoured by his niggly, nasty style (its a minefield out there and he's a survivor), but as he's played over 400 league games he can't be that bad or somebody might have rumbled him by now. However, hating someone as a result of your perception of their football abilities is a tad strong don't you think? (Oh and I think he's not too bad a skipper too;))


No
 

When we turn the corner under Weir I hope you'll follow the same course;)


I really wanted Weir to succeed but it now looks destined to fail. Nobody over the last 24 hours has given a good reason why we should continue with him, apart from that we need to give him time and we sack people too early. That it is not a reason ti keep someone. So unless you have a good one, this patting me on the head and saying it will be alright son is not going to cut it.
 
I have always had a footballing principle and idea that I always thinks works, and forms the basis of most successful clubs, and that is that all the best times have a solid spine to the team.

You start by having a strong, solid goalkeeper upon whom all the back 4 can rely upon and gives confidence to.

At the heart of the back 4 you have a big, solid strong defender, who is not afraid to put his head where it hearts, who provides leadership to the back 4, and the rest of the team. He doesn't have to be a centre half who likes playing the ball out of defence, or capable of playing killer 60 yard passes. All he is in the team to do is do the simple things well and effectively.

In the middle of the park you have an energetic and harrying midfielder who will get stuck in, hassle the opposition, not give any opposition any time on the ball, and can be relied upon to win the ball in the middle of the park, and get it out of the mixer and get it to players with more creativity and capability to get the ball in to positions where you can launch an attack and actually create chances.

Finally up top you have a player who is strong, provides a decent ariel threat, but who is also clever and who can make the runs that pull opposing players out of position to create space, and who has the strength and physical prowess to win the ball and also hold it up and play it to other players around him.

These players are the sort of players who don't win many plaudits for their style of play but are players who can be relied upon to do the dirty work, players who you need to provide leadership, set an example and provide a strong spine to a team which is the base upon which you have bring in other players who can play good attractive football.

At the minute we have the goalkeeper in George Long who is quickly learning his trade and looks experienced beyond his year.

At the back we have Maguire and Collins. I think that Collins is past his shelf life at the Lane. I don't see him as a leader, and I don't really see him taking any on any responsibility, and I don't think he sets an example to the younger more talented Maguire whose career I think has stalled badly in the last 18 months or so.

In the middle of the park you have Michael Doyle who I personally think is the rotten egg in the team, he is the club captain and I get the impression that this is a role where he leads not through example but telling other what they should be doing and dishing out the bollockings but with Doyle he appears as a leader that is very much whose leadership style is do as I say, rather than do as I do, and anyone who has ever been a leader, or operated under this style of leadership knows that this doesn't either inspire or fill with confidence and individuals operating under this style of leadership go in to self preservation mode where they are unable to take responsibility for their own actions due to the fear of being singled out for criticism of they make a mistake.

Up front I do think that Porter can play a role within this team, as he is a lot more intelligent footballer than people think, but I seriously don't think he fits in to the style of play we have, and suffers from a lack of service, and also from having someone up front alongside him who he can play off and build a partnership with.

Two excellent points on Collins and Doyle. No leaders!
 
I really wanted Weir to succeed but it now looks destined to fail. Nobody over the last 24 hours has given a good reason why we should continue with him, apart from that we need to give him time and we sack people too early. That it is not a reason ti keep someone. So unless you have a good one, this patting me on the head and saying it will be alright son is not going to cut it.
Firstly, no need for the patting on head bit, certainly not my modus operandi. Its a forum, we debate, disagree and hopefully all have the same goal (its just how we get there that we differ on at times).
You want him out now, I can't see that as the solution (just yet). I'm pretty sure plenty of managers have had similar runs of dire results and gone on to succeed, I hope Weir is one of them, but I can understand at this juncture why some people can't imagine this is going to happen.
I can't give you a reason, but I'm living in hope that we will improve before it gets to car park demos etc etc and things will come good.
I was reasonably patient when Robson was making a pigs ear of it but also came to realise that getting rid when we did was the way forward, surely we can't get it wrong again?
 
Firstly, no need for the patting on head bit, certainly not my modus operandi. Its a forum, we debate, disagree and hopefully all have the same goal (its just how we get there that we differ on at times).
You want him out now, I can't see that as the solution (just yet). I'm pretty sure plenty of managers have had similar runs of dire results and gone on to succeed, I hope Weir is one of them, but I can understand at this juncture why some people can't imagine this is going to happen.
I can't give you a reason, but I'm living in hope that we will improve before it gets to car park demos etc etc and things will come good.
I was reasonably patient when Robson was making a pigs ear of it but also came to realise that getting rid when we did was the way forward, surely we can't get it wrong again?

As I posted elsewhere, only 3 managers have had starts worse or similar to Weir's - Mercer, Sirrel and Adams. We were relegated at the end of each of those manager's first (or only) season.
 
As I posted elsewhere, only 3 managers have had starts worse or similar to Weir's - Mercer, Sirrel and Adams. We were relegated at the end of each of those manager's first (or only) season.
I wasn't particularly referring to just SUFC.
 
I wasn't particularly referring to just SUFC.

Fair point. It's interesting that Sirrel had a similarly awful start to 77-78. P7 W1 D1 L5. He was sacked at that point and we stayed up that season.
 
Fair point. It's interesting that Sirrel had a similarly awful start to 77-78. P7 W1 D1 L5. He was sacked at that point and we stayed up that season.
Probably because he'd been there the season before too and had a pre season to 'put his stamp' on things. Sirrel always pointed the finger of blame at the South Stand, citing it as the millstone around the clubs neck.
 
Firstly, no need for the patting on head bit, certainly not my modus operandi. Its a forum, we debate, disagree and hopefully all have the same goal (its just how we get there that we differ on at times).
You want him out now, I can't see that as the solution (just yet). I'm pretty sure plenty of managers have had similar runs of dire results and gone on to succeed, I hope Weir is one of them, but I can understand at this juncture why some people can't imagine this is going to happen.
I can't give you a reason, but I'm living in hope that we will improve before it gets to car park demos etc etc and things will come good.
I was reasonably patient when Robson was making a pigs ear of it but also came to realise that getting rid when we did was the way forward, surely we can't get it wrong again?


Hope is never a good reason to keep anyone. Look maybe the players are 100% behind him and believe him what they are doing but it's not sounding like that.
 
Probably because he'd been there the season before too and had a pre season to 'put his stamp' on things. Sirrel always pointed the finger of blame at the South Stand, citing it as the millstone around the clubs neck.


It's bastard my fault again then!
 
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Bournemouth sacked their manager after ten games last season with just one win at the time. Early October.
 
I really wanted Weir to succeed but it now looks destined to fail. Nobody over the last 24 hours has given a good reason why we should continue with him, apart from that we need to give him time and we sack people too early. That it is not a reason ti keep someone. So unless you have a good one, this patting me on the head and saying it will be alright son is not going to cut it.

No good reasons? What about it is plainly ridiculous to sack a bloke 2 months into the season. I know its worrying and I also know how piss poor we are right now.

I know some people get off on the blood letting and I can assume it is the only power they actually have in their lives but you really do have to give a revolution time. Its the easy decision to revert to type and get on the blower to Warnock but that isn't the answer to the problem. Firstly patience is required of which some fans clearly have none and secondly people have to stop dissecting every press interview Weir does and trying to put their own spin on it. My own view is we have to give him the season, but if we at least stop hammering our own manager up until Christmas it would be a start.

This was supposed to be a long term project and most fans bought into the 2-3 seasons ethos to start mending things. This money (none of which we have actually seen yet) seems to have given everyone itchy feet and the kicking and screaming minority have once more taken centre stage.

As for being your most hated player? I wonder the wisdom of a person who actually hates their own players. Do you have a ranking system?

As I posted elsewhere, only 3 managers have had starts worse or similar to Weir's - Mercer, Sirrel and Adams. We were relegated at the end of each of those manager's first (or only) season.

Yeah yeah, and before Bassett no team had made such a terrible start to a Premier League season and survived. Records are made to be broken. Just give the bloke a fair chance and allow him access to some of the cash we are supposed to be getting. I say supposed because I am not yet convinced its actually there to spend.

Oh and ofor the record I don't know if he will improve with time, but I believe in being fair to the bloke.
 

No good reasons? What about it is plainly ridiculous to sack a bloke 2 months into the season. I know its worrying and I also know how piss poor we are right now.

I know some people get off on the blood letting and I can assume it is the only power they actually have in their lives but you really do have to give a revolution time. Its the easy decision to revert to type and get on the blower to Warnock but that isn't the answer to the problem. Firstly patience is required of which some fans clearly have none and secondly people have to stop dissecting every press interview Weir does and trying to put their own spin on it. My own view is we have to give him the season, but if we at least stop hammering our own manager up until Christmas it would be a start.

This was supposed to be a long term project and most fans bought into the 2-3 seasons ethos to start mending things. This money (none of which we have actually seen yet) seems to have given everyone itchy feet and the kicking and screaming minority have once more taken centre stage.

As for being your most hated player? I wonder the wisdom of a person who actually hates their own players. Do you have a ranking system?



Yeah yeah, and before Bassett no team had made such a terrible start to a Premier League season and survived. Records are made to be broken. Just give the bloke a fair chance and allow him access to some of the cash we are supposed to be getting. I say supposed because I am not yet convinced its actually there to spend.

Oh and ofor the record I don't know if he will improve with time, but I believe in being fair to the bloke.

But as has been said loads of time, it isn't just that we have had a mediocre start with some signs of teething troubles as a new regime is put in place. We have had a fucking disastrous start (this is the 3rd Division, not the Premier League, and we are in the relegation zone) with all the signs being that - nice bloke though Weir might be - he really doesn't know what he is doing.

If we were 12th or 13th and had shown signs of moving forward, I don't think anyone would be complaining. As it is, the current situation cannot be allowed to go on much longer or we will find ourselves in the 4th division. I would give him another month and if we are still in the relegation zone then, I am afraid it has to be goodbye.
 

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