Interesting slant on that ‘handball’

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CaptainMorgans said:
To be honest, it was still not correct. The play should have been reset when the Spurs player headed the ball clear & we regained possession. Otherwise, how far back in time do you go to disallow a goal? It was a ridiculous decision on that basis.

I'm not claiming there's some big conspiracy by the way.
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Correct the second phase rule has never been explained since that decision and Riley and co have conveniently avoided any discussion on it. The decision to disallow the goal took a very long time. The simple fact is the toe being offside could only have been given if Lundstram crossed the ball to Mcg and he scored at that point. He didn't the ball was cleared by a Spurs player to the other side of the pitch where is was put back into the box and then Mcg scored. It will be interesting to see what the reaction is should this happen to one of the top six clubs in future.
 

I really like this analysis although I have seen similar before. It highlights that VAR has a limit in its accuracy. Every "scientific" measurement potentially has a margin of error which should be allowed for when using the system. This analysis points to the factors which cannot be 100% accurate namely when exactly is the ball through played (i.e. when is it deemed to leave the players foot?) and the movement of the player receiving the ball and the distance traveled between camera frames. It shows that to give someone off side by a margin of 2.4 cms is ludicrous as the system is just not that accurate. The only solution is to have a built in margin for error in the VAR system which properly reflects the potential margin for error in practice. I am not qualified to say what the margin should be but on the figures given in the analysis it would appear to be in the region of 10-15 cms 4-5 ins). The easiest way to work this in practice would be to make the imaginary line showing where the players are wider but I am sure there are other ways of building the margin for error into the technology. No system will ever be perfect as it involves human input as to when the ball was kicked and where parts of the body are which would still involve some subjective judgments but at least if there is a margin of error built in (which would have to be in favour of the attacker) we could all be happier that when VAR says it is offside by 2.4 cms this has taken into account the potential margins.
 
Watching soccer saturday and sorry but I can't help but feel that people seem to be a hell of a lot more upset about this handball rule now that it did Spurs out of a goal. All the pundits are furious about it. All wailing and gnashing teeth.

Yet earlier in the season when it was happening to teams lower in the pecking order, it was shakes of the head and "its crazy isnt it? Ah well." Normally I'd say theyre just trying to fill airtime in long spells between games but they've got em coming out of their ears right now.
 
mcbladeface said:
Watching soccer saturday and sorry but I can't help but feel that people seem to be a hell of a lot more upset about this handball rule now that it did Spurs out of a goal. All the pundits are furious about it. All wailing and gnashing teeth.

Yet earlier in the season when it was happening to teams lower in the pecking order, it was shakes of the head and "its crazy isnt it? Ah well." Normally I'd say theyre just trying to fill airtime in long spells between games but they've got em coming out of their ears right now.
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It's been criticized all season.

The more incidents we have, the more it is brought up.


Think it was during the first few weeks of fixtures when there was an incident, might have been a disallowed Wolves goal at Leicester, when Carragher was saying how the problem is the rule and not VAR.
 
CentralQuay said:
It's been criticized all season.

The more incidents we have, the more it is brought up.


Think it was during the first few weeks of fixtures when there was an incident, might have been a disallowed Wolves goal at Leicester, when Carragher was saying how the problem is the rule and not VAR.
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I didn't say it wasn't talked about before the other night. I said it wasn't in my opinion being talked about with the vociferousness it is right now. Past few days every manager has been asked to say something about it. Pundits going into meltdown over it the past few days as if its the greatest affront to the game ever when their criticism earlier in the season just appeared a bit tepid by comparison.
 
HoodedClaw said:
Totally agree, I'm not even sure that the Tech can ever get there. What kind of resolution would be required to be able to zoom in close enough to see the exact frame when the ball left the players foot for example?

Here's an interesting solution the the VAR offside issues:



Personally I think I could go for something along those sorts of lines.
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Thanks for the link - that was a great read 👍
 
wadblade said:
Lucus was NOT fouled, he dived when he lost control of the ball, and then his cheating led to his arm hitting the ball and the goal being disallowed [Ha ha ha] Thats why the game restarted with a goal kick
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I thought that at the time. Redknapp said he was fouled by three players when what I saw was that he saw three players closing in on him and began falling before one of them even touched him, the other two didn’t touch him.
 
CentralQuay said:
How many times?

They did not go 'against' you.
They were correctly overruled because they should not have been allowed in the first place.
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I think the issue is not so much whether they are correct or not but the time taken to scrutinise them.

For VAR to against us they search harder to find a reason. To go for us they don’t look so hard.

Lundstram’s toe, a full 4 plus minutes in a phase of play about 20 seconds before the actual goal.

Today’s handball which should have been a penalty, instantly dismissed. Same situation other night for Man U? Given.

That’s two just of the top of my head.

VAR or not it boils down to a ref making the decision on the pitch or a ref making the decision at Stockley Park. Refs are influenced to either make decisions in favour of so-called bigger clubs or decisions against so-called smaller clubs.

Consciously or not they show a bias.

It’s as if United started the season with a minus 10 point deduction. That’s what they should do next season. Give us the minus 10 points right at the beginning.

We’d know what we need to do from the off and it’d be less frustrating.
 
FATTYFOULKE said:
I think the issue is not so much whether they are correct or not but the time taken to scrutinise them.

For VAR to against us they search harder to find a reason. To go for us they don’t look so hard.

Lundstram’s toe, a full 4 plus minutes in a phase of play about 20 seconds before the actual goal.

Today’s handball which should have been a penalty, instantly dismissed. Same situation other night for Man U? Given.

That’s two just of the top of my head.

VAR or not it boils down to a ref making the decision on the pitch or a ref making the decision at Stockley Park. Refs are influenced to either make decisions in favour of so-called bigger clubs or decisions against so-called smaller clubs.

Consciously or not they show a bias.

It’s as if United started the season with a minus 10 point deduction. That’s what they should do next season. Give us the minus 10 points right at the beginning.

We’d know what we need to do from the off and it’d be less frustrating.
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Why?
What is their basis for discrimination against Sheffield United?

The only reason I have seen so far, are reasons that would also make Burnley a victim of discrimination by officials.....
But that doesn't seem to be the case.
 
CentralQuay said:
Why?
What is their basis for discrimination against Sheffield United?

The only reason I have seen so far, are reasons that would also make Burnley a victim of discrimination by officials.....
But that doesn't seem to be the case.
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I don’t know what the reason is, just pointing out it’s there. It’s just a fact.
 
FATTYFOULKE said:
I don’t know what the reason is, just pointing out it’s there. It’s just a fact.
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I would prefer some evidence, but never mind I guess.

Maybe it's to do with the whole Sheffield United v West Ham saga years back?
As they're clearly discriminating against both clubs equally.

Not sure what poor Wolves and Norwich have done to get the same treatment mind.
 
If there was no favouritism the VAR table wouldn’t be so wildly extreme between clubs at the top benefitting (Man U) and those at the bottom losing out (Sheff U)
 
Let me ask you a question.

Can you seriously imagine that VAR table reversed, with Sheff Utd sat at the top having benefitted most and Man U at the bottom?
 
I wasn't over distraught with not getting the handball today.

Then I remember Egan vs Villa
Did he any more deliberately handball than the Burnley lad?
 
FATTYFOULKE said:
Let me ask you a question.

Can you seriously imagine that VAR table reversed, with Sheff Utd sat at the top having benefitted most and Man U at the bottom?
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Why would that matter?

The table now is extremely well balanced when comparing the size of clubs in the league.
There's no obvious bias there at all.

There are as many of the 'big 6' in the bottom half of that table, as there are in the top.

But keep coming up with the same predictive argument with no evidence.
 

sitwell said:
This is how to act on another clubs website ,loads of time for this guy and the Spurs fan who comes on . Cant you take that arrogant boring know all CentralQuay off to your West Ham site ,hes doing my head in.
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God help us, CentralQuay’s giving us the benefit of his cricket wisdom on another thread as well now. I get the impression he has a view on many subjects and isn’t afraid to share them with us.
 
Commentators couldnt decide over handball today, one minute they said VAR was right then next minute after another reply they said it should have been a clear handball.
To me it was handball as it would have continued on in the box towards our players, therefore handball interfering with play.
 
Trigger Blade said:
God help us, CentralQuay’s giving us the benefit of his cricket wisdom on another thread as well now. I get the impression he has a view on many subjects and isn’t afraid to share them with us.
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In terms of his opinions, I agree with some and I disagree with some. I will say most of us have watched a lot more of United home and away probably for the last 4 years yet this guy seems to be authority on many of our players and what we/Wilder should be doing/not doing?!

I can kind of cope with differing opinions but for a fan of another team to be so authorative on his opinions on our players and often in a slightly condescending way is more odd than irritating. Although at times it is the latter but then other blades differ in opinions too but I kind of don't mind an argument with a Blade but arguing with another fan about our players or VAR decisions for days on end is weird.

Just find it bizarre that someone has posted 496 times about a team he does not even support and seems permanently stuck on this board. Imagine one of us posting 10 or 15 times a day on a Leicester board and arguing with Leicester fans about Iheanacho or Praet. I think the LCFC fans would say have you not got your own message board or have you got nothing better to do?! That is being kind. All for rival fans coming on now and again and certainly it should not be mutually exclusive for Blades and we should welcome new fans of anyone but do find it odd. Might be just me. Not the worst thing though and maybe lockdown has got to me to be a bit irked by it all.
 
Trigger Blade said:
God help us, CentralQuay’s giving us the benefit of his cricket wisdom on another thread as well now. I get the impression he has a view on many subjects and isn’t afraid to share them with us.
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Deadbat said:
In terms of his opinions, I agree with some and I disagree with some. I will say most of us have watched a lot more of United home and away probably for the last 4 years yet this guy seems to be authority on many of our players and what we/Wilder should be doing/not doing?!

I can kind of cope with differing opinions but for a fan of another team to be so authorative on his opinions on our players and often in a slightly condescending way is more odd than irritating. Although at times it is the latter but then other blades differ in opinions too but I kind of don't mind an argument with a Blade but arguing with another fan about our players or VAR decisions for days on end is weird.

Just find it bizarre that someone has posted 496 times about a team he does not even support and seems permanently stuck on this board. Imagine one of us posting 10 or 15 times a day on a Leicester board and arguing with Leicester fans about Iheanacho or Praet. I think the LCFC fans would say have you not got your own message board or have you got nothing better to do?! That is being kind. All for rival fans coming on now and again and certainly it should not be mutually exclusive for Blades and we should welcome new fans of anyone but do find it odd. Might be just me. Not the worst thing though and maybe lockdown has got to me to be a bit irked by it all.
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Just ignore him
 
Champagneblade said:
I wasn't over distraught with not getting the handball today.

Then I remember Egan vs Villa
Did he any more deliberately handball than the Burnley lad?
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It's a different rule for players defending in their own area and attackers in their opponents area.
 
From this morning’s DT, these guys always have an answer, trouble being that they’re always different...

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Champagneblade said:
I wasn't over distraught with not getting the handball today.

Then I remember Egan vs Villa
Did he any more deliberately handball than the Burnley lad?
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A very similar scenario, Champagneblade. And it was the same on-field referee - Peter Bankes - for the Villa game at the Lane and yesterday's match at Burnley. So, at least in that respect, we can commend Bankes for being consistent because he didn't deem either incident to be a penalty.

The problem of poor/weak officials, seems in part (as Mourinho suggests) to have been shifted to an office away from the ground where they can sit and pass judgement with a veneer of impartiality because of 'the technology'. Of course, as we know all too well, it is just a veneer because these officials are still picking and choosing how to use the technology and we're still getting inconsistent decisions.

Against Villa at the Lane, the VAR official was Jarred Gillett and he deemed Bankes to have made a clear and obvious error ( after quite some time, you will recall, given that we were back on the attack by the time play was called back) and instructed him to award Villa a penalty. Yesterday, however, in a remarkably similar situation, Stuart Atwell was the VAR and he very quickly (given that the TV commentator seemed to know within 5 seconds that it had been checked) decided there was no clear and obvious error and that it was not a penalty.

Even allowing for the fact that there is plenty of evidence to indicate that Atwell is a poor referee anyway (he is the clown who officiated in our home game with Newcastle), the inconsistency between Gillett and Atwell's decisions on these 2 incidents, is glaring.
 
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