Academy reshuffle

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Yet again you just don’t get into a debate about it.

I am all good with it. More good with it than you can ever imagine.
 
Suppose the board and Wilder decided to freshen things up abit?

Seems to have come out of the blue a little.
 
Having spent the best part of 8 years around our academy system I’ve seen Trav start out his coaching career and go onto become Academy Manager when Nick Cox left. Personally think he has done a great job with the resources available. I don’t think however that view is shared in the top building at Shirecliffe which maybe explains his departure. Jack Lester had some excellent sides at Forest during his time there so good choice to replace Trav who I wouldn’t be surprised to see at Man Utd with Coxy or even dip his toes into Management with John Dungworth and Mick Wadsworth supporting him. Wherever he ends up I wish him all the best
 
Anybody who wants to understand the ethos at Shirecliffe, should watch Binnion's interview with Biggs. "If you're not producing players that make the club money or benefit the first team what are you doing" was a telling remark Binnion made (I'm paraphrasing). The academy costs around 1.5 million of club money per season to run. It has made the club the best part of 30 million during Wilder's tenure in player sales and sell on clauses. There has clearly been players with the potential to grow with the club all the way to the premier league during the last three years; where I think Redhead is misguided is in thinking Wilder wouldn't have played these players. Our club was in a position in which it simply had to sell players to give Wilder a semblance of a competitive transfer/wage budget. We were still bottom third notwithstanding these sales - where would we have been without them?
It should go without saying that if we kept all the academy/young players we wouldn't be as high in the football pyramid as we are now. Hopefully if we get a fantastic young player we'll now be in a position to hold out for better money or integrate them into our first team.
I do wonder why Travis has moved on, and whether it has anything to do with us changing our academy model in light of permier league monies?
 
I agree Nopig..... what I am saying is that it will be even more difficult to produce a player at Premier League standard in this day and age ...... and whether it’s Lester or Binnion in charge will make no difference....

What was clear was that Trav had an opinion and was not scared to show it which as ‘dream’ pointed out did not go down well in the first team top building.
That has probably not done him any favours.

Then again, he wouldn’t have got so far in his coaching career had he not been the person he was.

He could turn out to be a very very good manager.
 
I’ve got nothing against Trav, he’s a top quality coach. What doesn’t change however is that the academy is an absolute circus, and it always has been. From years ago as a young player there to now as (occasional) staff, it’s one thing that’s never changed, no matter who’s in charge and no matter what the new paint scheme is. In fairness though they don’t owe me money any more, they paid up.
 
s4-blade said:
I’ve got nothing against Trav, he’s a top quality coach. What doesn’t change however is that the academy is an absolute circus, and it always has been. From years ago as a young player there to now as (occasional) staff, it’s one thing that’s never changed, no matter who’s in charge and no matter what the new paint scheme is. In fairness though they don’t owe me money any more, they paid up.
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Why is it a circus ?
 
derryblade said:
Nick Cox was head hunted by Man Utd for their academy wouldn't be surprised if Travis hasn't been offered an opportunity he couldn't refuse, just saying.
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A number cruncher, business type in an academy.

His sessions were like you'd read them from a coaching manual, boring rigid and he lacked enthusiasm to engage players.

Wasn't surprised when Man Utd came in because he spoke very well, knew all the theories and business aspect of how to run an academy.

Not a loss to Sheff Utd at all.
 
Would be interesting to see Binnion's reason for leaving. It will never come to true light even if some poster is "ITK" some things are private and a lot of coaches talk between themselves at numerous times in the year so it won't be in the open.

Was a good young coach been coaching there for almost 10 years now, developed excellently by Pemberton even though he lost his own vision a little I feel like he got it back when he was made academy manager. A great position to have at a young age but truth is it pays very very poorly for the hours you have to put in.

Didn't have a good relationship with Wilder although both massive Blades that's just life, Dungworth was the go between the 3.
 
PittsburghBlade said:
Would be interesting to see Binnion's reason for leaving. It will never come to true light even if some poster is "ITK" some things are private and a lot of coaches talk between themselves at numerous times in the year so it won't be in the open.

Was a good young coach been coaching there for almost 10 years now, developed excellently by Pemberton even though he lost his own vision a little I feel like he got it back when he was made academy manager. A great position to have at a young age but truth is it pays very very poorly for the hours you have to put in.

Didn't have a good relationship with Wilder although both massive Blades that's just life, Dungworth was the go between the 3.
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Seems like you could be more ITK more than most.

You have summed things up perfectly pal .
 

PittsburghBlade said:
A number cruncher, business type in an academy.

His sessions were like you'd read them from a coaching manual, boring rigid and he lacked enthusiasm to engage players.

Wasn't surprised when Man Utd came in because he spoke very well, knew all the theories and business aspect of how to run an academy.

Not a loss to Sheff Utd at all.
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That’s interesting. I’d take a view that if someone is employed to run the academy, the most important thing is that they understand the business and organisational aspects of the job. I wouldn’t really expect them to be a hands on coach.

If I owned a plumbing company, I’d want a general manager who could organise and motivate the staff. That would be far more important to me than how good he was at changing a tap or fixing a toilet.
 
flashinblade1889 said:
Any thoughts on the Jack Lester appointment RH?
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I think it is a safe appointment..... Has never been in charge of an academy before. Looked after Forest 18s and 23s but was never in full charge .

He certainly will be no improvement on Binnion but far more likely to keep his opinions to himself.

Things sometimes go stale and this may be what has happened.
 
PittsburghBlade said:
A number cruncher, business type in an academy.

His sessions were like you'd read them from a coaching manual, boring rigid and he lacked enthusiasm to engage players.

Wasn't surprised when Man Utd came in because he spoke very well, knew all the theories and business aspect of how to run an academy.

Not a loss to Sheff Utd at all.
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Spoken by someone who obviously doesn’t understand the role and remit of an academy manager. He’s got an extensive coaching background but that’s not really the remit of the job he was given.
 
Oldun said:
Exactly. Playing and managing are two different things aren’t they.
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Not really what I’m talking about or your argument.

Just suggests when you’ve actually been a part of something for a long long time and not just what your mates mates friend who works there is telling you it gives you a better idea of what’s going on.
 
PittsburghBlade said:
Not really what I’m talking about or your argument.

Just suggests when you’ve actually been a part of something for a long long time and not just what your mates mates friend who works there is telling you it gives you a better idea of what’s going on.
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Except it doesn’t. You demonstrate no better idea of what an academy managers role should be. In fact the opposite!
 
PittsburghBlade said:
What a strange comment.

Oldun stop reading books and theories mate.
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Not strange at all. You claim to have played in the academy but your posts show a complete lack of understanding of how an academy should be run or what the role of an academy manger should actually be. Then you accuse me of reading too many books without knowing anything about me. Don’t think I’m the strange one, do you?
 
When Binnion was appointed he was given an important role in establishing the much heralded "Pathway' for young players to reach the first team. The role sat him alongside the Manager and Head Scout on certain Committees ( forgotten the names), it seemed a progressive move, but a surprise for me at the time and overkill to some degree.

Binnion was obviously highly rated and whatever the reason for his departure, it halts much needed continuity needed in such a position.

Will Jack Lester assume those same committe positions or has the role changed? Has the 'Pathway ' been endorsed or has it faded away. Does our new P.L. status change it all? Was it all 'lipservice' anyway? Was there a personality clash as intimated above?

Jack is a great bloke and a consummate professional but I must say the appointment seems a bit Bladey and parochial. Perhaps the Forest set up is more than that, I hope so. Anybody know?

The 'Pathway' hasn't provided enough first team players over the past few years. In the P.L. it will be even harder now but the biggest clubs are noticeably focusing on it at long last.. it's so obviously an aspiration for business and emotional reasons, it unites any club, multiplies that sense of 'club' and belonging.

Selling the best products of the Academy so quickly does exactly the opposite to that. We should be able to hold on to the lads longer if we stay up. Where are they though? Not just the Brooks and Lewin superstars, but the water carriers, the solid defenders and the workhorses who are needed just as much in any team.

Did Messrs. Cox and Binnion produce any of those in all those years? Even one? That's a big part of Jack's job surely.
 

Re above post:

Jack was U -18's manager at Forest and 'worked in the Academy'. This is a big step up for him then.
 
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