Tonights Corporate Meeting With The Chairman

[MobileBlade]

Just with the comments about employment Law and the issue of making players train with the U-18s and U-21s, an interesting Case Law from Leeds United and the resignation of the Assistant Manager (Nigel Gibbs) resulting in him being awarded £331,000 for a repudiatory breach of contract. Basically, he was assistant manager and following Brian McDermotts sacking, he was isolated and then made to train U-18s and 21s. An obvious demotion against his Contract of Cmployment. The full jurisdiction does give an interesting insight in football contracts and workings though (if Leeds can be called a club as such )

http://www.employmentcasesupdate.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed30987

 

[Sean Thornton]

I have absolutely no idea. Just speculating in response to a query of how it could be that it happened yet no charges were brought. No idea if it happened or not.

Reports that say that something hasn't happened are always interesting to me, because as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

That doesn't make sense. What was Clough supposed to do with these players to increase their value? Play them when he doesn't want to?
Surely, if he's fallen out with them the sensible thing to do as chairman is to call in their agents and say find a loan club, or a club willing to sign your player, as he has no future here.
And since Clough has gone, how many of these players have increased in value under Adkins' clean slate policy?
Who were these players? We know about Collins and Butler. Scougall? McNulty? Diego?

Alcock played for us v Donny, had a very good game, a few weeks later they signed him and ended up paying an undisclosed fee. Though I take your point that more often that not, playing the players who are not good enough or don't have the right attitude will not do much to enhance their value in the market.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Honestly don't think we do it more than most in our position.

Can you think of many others that have continuously, year on year sold their best player (or one of) every season for 5 years in a row? Have any of them enjoyed any success following such action?


Wallsall did it for a while getting shut of the likes of Brandy, Butler, Patterson etc. but even they’ve held firm this season to have a right go at it fending off interest in the likes of Bradshaw and Sawyers.


Crewe have done it as a means of sustaining the club but never profess to not need to.


Swindon and Chezzy have done it over the last couple of years.


I can’t think of any club anywhere near our size that has done it every year for 5 years.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Fallen out with, or decided they weren't good enough and preparing to move them on in the summer?

Pretty much the same as Adkins is getting praise for doing now.

Apart from Higdon, he didn't pay a fee for any of the lads he "fell out" with.

But Clough did sign them (bar Collins) whereas Adkins has inherited them. Inheriting players and getting rid of ones with the wrong attitudes is fine (Brandy, King, Taylor etc. under Clough) but once you’ve got a small squad to build on and a summer to do it, you must surely do a better job of recruitment than he did. Davies, Butler, JCR, McNulty, Higdon, Wallace, McEveley, Alcock, McGahey. 9 players there, 4 of whom I believe commanded a fee and very little return. You could add Coutts and Freeman to that too to make 11 players who I suspect very few of our fans hope will be in our first 11 next season. On top of that he chose to re-sign Porter, Howard, Harris and Flynn which hasn’t worked out brilliantly. He did sign some decent players like Basham, Brayford and Adams but overall, his recruitment was his big failing. Whether he fell out with them or decided they weren’t good enough, they were his signings and he has to take responsibility.


If Adkins ends up in the same situation next season, he will deserve similar criticism. I know I sometimes come across as critical of Clough but at the same time, I was one of the 60 odd % that didn’t want him sacked last season. Doesn’t mean he didn’t get certain things very wrong though.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Can you think of many others that have continuously, year on year sold their best player (or one of) every season for 5 years in a row? Have any of them enjoyed any success following such action?


Wallsall did it for a while getting shut of the likes of Brandy, Butler, Patterson etc. but even they’ve held firm this season to have a right go at it fending off interest in the likes of Bradshaw and Sawyers.


Crewe have done it as a means of sustaining the club but never profess to not need to.


Swindon and Chezzy have done it over the last couple of years.


I can’t think of any club anywhere near our size that has done it every year for 5 years.

Atletico?

 

[Rudders]

The hints and allegations aren't just about the quality of the work, they're about illegalities (i.e. fraud).
If that's the reason people have been sacked then why would McCabe and the club let them get away with it?
Would he turn a blind eye to employees defrauding his other businesses?

I'm not saying whether what you're saying is true or not. I have no idea.
But it seems very odd to me that United (or any club/company) would have sufficient evidence of fraud to sack someone but do nothing else about it.

.

It's quite common for companies to sack employees for gross misconduct for fraudulent activities and try to reclaim the money stolen from them directly rather than dragging the company's name and hard won reputation through the courts.

 

[BushBlade]

Alcock played for us v Donny, had a very good game, a few weeks later they signed him and ended up paying an undisclosed fee. Though I take your point that more often that not, playing the players who are not good enough or don't have the right attitude will not do much to enhance their value in the market.

Alcock signed for Donny because he'd played for Ferguson at Peterborough.

 

[bridgfordblade]

But Clough did sign them (bar Collins) whereas Adkins has inherited them. Inheriting players and getting rid of ones with the wrong attitudes is fine (Brandy, King, Taylor etc. under Clough) but once you’ve got a small squad to build on and a summer to do it, you must surely do a better job of recruitment than he did. Davies, Butler, JCR, McNulty, Higdon, Wallace, McEveley, Alcock, McGahey. 9 players there, 4 of whom I believe commanded a fee and very little return. You could add Coutts and Freeman to that too to make 11 players who I suspect very few of our fans hope will be in our first 11 next season. On top of that he chose to re-sign Porter, Howard, Harris and Flynn which hasn’t worked out brilliantly. He did sign some decent players like Basham, Brayford and Adams but overall, his recruitment was his big failing. Whether he fell out with them or decided they weren’t good enough, they were his signings and he has to take responsibility.


If Adkins ends up in the same situation next season, he will deserve similar criticism. I know I sometimes come across as critical of Clough but at the same time, I was one of the 60 odd % that didn’t want him sacked last season. Doesn’t mean he didn’t get certain things very wrong though.

I don't think you're over critical at all 1DW, and you debate the points fairly (similar to PeteBlade but maybe a touch less harsh)

I strongly agree he could have done a better job on recruitment, I don't agree he got it stinkingly wrong.

He was going to take responsibility for the mistakes he made, but he was sacked..

Butler bottled it big time, really bottled it, JCR, McNulty and Alcock the fans were slating him for freezing them out and not giving them enough of a chance, so I don't think it can work both ways. There were times when McNulty was hailed as the saviour and Clough slaughtered for publicly criticising him, I'll tell you what Clough didn't do, he didnt bomb him out on loan, he kept him in the squad.

Harris and Flynn were plenty good enough, JCR another who was hailed as brilliant when he didn't pick him and Clough was a racist for not playing him.

Now everyone sees and saw that he wasn't and isn't good enough. The goalposts got changed. Similar with Collins, Adkins should have left him out in the cold, the fact he made him such a key part of his team was a huge mistake, now people are readily accepting he wasn't the positive influence he painted himself.

I won't argue that he made mistakes in the transfer market, but in my opinion some of those mistakes were down to the fact he didn't/couldn't get his first choice and rather than spend big fees, he went bargain hunting.

Higdon was a shocking signing and even though he got a couple of important goals, his lack of movement right from the off against Bristol massively shocked me. i couldn't believe NC got it so wrong with him.

He signed too many bargains. Without a shadow of a doubt. I think he thought more of them would work out and to be fair, they did a job, I still believe to this day that if the Bray hadn't have got injured against Swindon, he'd have got you to Wembley at least.

He didn't and the rest as they say is history.

I've got no issue with people having a little pop, I've got big issues with people saying he left you in the worst state you've ever been in in your history.

He left you a play off squad, the fact some of those players were his players probably hasn't helped Adkins, but Adkins has had enough time and enough cash to sort it out better than he has. Again I'll point out that NC had the 4th biggest wage budget in the league, Adkins the second.

Adkins IS in the same position, he STILL has those players that aren't good enough. Why does he get another season to sort it out when Clough wasn't given that time. Despite achieving better results and despite the long list of plusses (that I get slated for cherry picking)

Tell me one record Adkins has broken in his season in charge? Clean sheets? Successive victories, cup wins against higher division sides?

Tell me one player apart from Billy that Adkins has got right, but he gets time? He's the one who deserves to be backed with time, what on earth has he done to warrant such backing?

Clough got some (or a lot depending on your view) stuff wrong, but he got some stuff right. What has Adkins actually got right?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Atletico?

Just checked and you're right. They have sold the likes of Aguero, Costa, De Gea, Martinez, Turan, Madzukic over the last 5-6 years for very big money. But they have also made purchases on a similar scale buying the likes of Griezzman, Mandzukic, Martinez, Savic etc.

They also had Aguero for 5 years in their first team before selling him. Costa was in the team for 3 years before being sold. They've also had a great spine with the likes of Godin, Mendes, Gabi and Koke etc. all at the club for 5 years or more.

I agree though that they have coped very well with the sales of key players. Their recruitment appears to have been excellent. I would still suggest they are more the exception than the rule though.

 

[BushBlade]

I don't think you're over critical at all 1DW, and you debate the points fairly (similar to PeteBlade but maybe a touch less harsh)

I strongly agree he could have done a better job on recruitment, I don't agree he got it stinkingly wrong.

He was going to take responsibility for the mistakes he made, but he was sacked..

Butler bottled it big time, really bottled it, JCR, McNulty and Alcock the fans were slating him for freezing them out and not giving them enough of a chance, so I don't think it can work both ways. There were times when McNulty was hailed as the saviour and Clough slaughtered for publicly criticising him, I'll tell you what Clough didn't do, he didnt bomb him out on loan, he kept him in the squad.

Harris and Flynn were plenty good enough, JCR another who was hailed as brilliant when he didn't pick him and Clough was a racist for not playing him.

Now everyone sees and saw that he wasn't and isn't good enough. The goalposts got changed. Similar with Collins, Adkins should have left him out in the cold, the fact he made him such a key part of his team was a huge mistake, now people are readily accepting he wasn't the positive influence he painted himself.

I won't argue that he made mistakes in the transfer market, but in my opinion some of those mistakes were down to the fact he didn't/couldn't get his first choice and rather than spend big fees, he went bargain hunting.

Higdon was a shocking signing and even though he got a couple of important goals, his lack of movement right from the off against Bristol massively shocked me. i couldn't believe NC got it so wrong with him.

He signed too many bargains. Without a shadow of a doubt. I think he thought more of them would work out and to be fair, they did a job, I still believe to this day that if the Bray hadn't have got injured against Swindon, he'd have got you to Wembley at least.

He didn't and the rest as they say is history.

I've got no issue with people having a little pop, I've got big issues with people saying he left you in the worst state you've ever been in in your history.

He left you a play off squad, the fact some of those players were his players probably hasn't helped Adkins, but Adkins has had enough time and enough cash to sort it out better than he has. Again I'll point out that NC had the 4th biggest wage budget in the league, Adkins the second.

Adkins IS in the same position, he STILL has those players that aren't good enough. Why does he get another season to sort it out when Clough wasn't given that time. Despite achieving better results and despite the long list of plusses (that I get slated for cherry picking)

Tell me one record Adkins has broken in his season in charge? Clean sheets? Successive victories, cup wins against higher division sides?

Tell me one player apart from Billy that Adkins has got right, but he gets time? He's the one who deserves to be backed with time, what on earth has he done to warrant such backing?

Clough got some (or a lot depending on your view) stuff wrong, but he got some stuff right. What has Adkins actually got right?

I'm confused. Most posters refer to the club as 'we' rather than 'you'. In fact, I can't think of any Blade who would refer to the club as 'you' when discussing us.
I haven't got a problem with that per se but I find it strange as your user name contains Blade in it.

 

[bridgfordblade]

I'm confused. Most posters refer to the club as 'we' rather than 'you'. In fact, I can't think of any Blade who would refer to the club as 'you' when discussing us.
I haven't got a problem with that per se but I find it strange as your user name contains Blade in it.

I should probably change my name.I'm not as big a blade as I was while Clough was in charge but didn't want to change and hide my views behind a new user name.

I appreciate in some people's eyes that makes my views irrelevant.

I still and will always want what's best for SUFC, a proper club with proper fans (majority) and a proper tradition, makes me sad to think you're going to have another season where you don't belong.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I don't think you're over critical at all 1DW, and you debate the points fairly (similar to PeteBlade but maybe a touch less harsh)

I strongly agree he could have done a better job on recruitment, I don't agree he got it stinkingly wrong.

He was going to take responsibility for the mistakes he made, but he was sacked..

Butler bottled it big time, really bottled it, JCR, McNulty and Alcock the fans were slating him for freezing them out and not giving them enough of a chance, so I don't think it can work both ways. There were times when McNulty was hailed as the saviour and Clough slaughtered for publicly criticising him, I'll tell you what Clough didn't do, he didnt bomb him out on loan, he kept him in the squad.

Harris and Flynn were plenty good enough, JCR another who was hailed as brilliant when he didn't pick him and Clough was a racist for not playing him.

Now everyone sees and saw that he wasn't and isn't good enough. The goalposts got changed. Similar with Collins, Adkins should have left him out in the cold, the fact he made him such a key part of his team was a huge mistake, now people are readily accepting he wasn't the positive influence he painted himself.

I won't argue that he made mistakes in the transfer market, but in my opinion some of those mistakes were down to the fact he didn't/couldn't get his first choice and rather than spend big fees, he went bargain hunting.

Higdon was a shocking signing and even though he got a couple of important goals, his lack of movement right from the off against Bristol massively shocked me. i couldn't believe NC got it so wrong with him.

He signed too many bargains. Without a shadow of a doubt. I think he thought more of them would work out and to be fair, they did a job, I still believe to this day that if the Bray hadn't have got injured against Swindon, he'd have got you to Wembley at least.

He didn't and the rest as they say is history.

I've got no issue with people having a little pop, I've got big issues with people saying he left you in the worst state you've ever been in in your history.

He left you a play off squad, the fact some of those players were his players probably hasn't helped Adkins, but Adkins has had enough time and enough cash to sort it out better than he has. Again I'll point out that NC had the 4th biggest wage budget in the league, Adkins the second.

Adkins IS in the same position, he STILL has those players that aren't good enough. Why does he get another season to sort it out when Clough wasn't given that time. Despite achieving better results and despite the long list of plusses (that I get slated for cherry picking)

Tell me one record Adkins has broken in his season in charge? Clean sheets? Successive victories, cup wins against higher division sides?

Tell me one player apart from Billy that Adkins has got right, but he gets time? He's the one who deserves to be backed with time, what on earth has he done to warrant such backing?

Clough got some (or a lot depending on your view) stuff wrong, but he got some stuff right. What has Adkins actually got right?

There are bits here I agree with and bits I strongly disagree with. I'll address as best I can.

"Butler bottled it big time, really bottled it, JCR, McNulty and Alcock the fans were slating him for freezing them out and not giving them enough of a chance, so I don't think it can work both ways. There were times when McNulty was hailed as the saviour and Clough slaughtered for publicly criticising him, I'll tell you what Clough didn't do, he didnt bomb him out on loan, he kept him in the squad."

I don't know what "bottled" it means with Butler- perhaps you can elaborate?

I don't recall anyone calling for Alcock to be in the team when he wasn't. I also don't recall McNulty or JCR being heralded as a saviour, just better options than his other signings Higdon and Flynn. We've since signed Done and Sharp so McNulty falls down the pecking order.

"I won't argue that he made mistakes in the transfer market, but in my opinion some of those mistakes were down to the fact he didn't/couldn't get his first choice and rather than spend big fees, he went bargain hunting. "

This I agree with. If we had landed Coady, Brayford and COG in the summer instead of Alcock, Wallace and Higdon things would have been much better.


"He signed too many bargains. Without a shadow of a doubt. I think he thought more of them would work out and to be fair, they did a job, I still believe to this day that if the Bray hadn't have got injured against Swindon, he'd have got you to Wembley at least."

He most certainly did not sign too many bargains! Adams is the only stand out bargain I can think of. He may have tried to sign bargains but they proved anything but. I agree with Brayford that we might have got to Wembley but don't think we'd have beaten Preston.

"Tell me one player apart from Billy that Adkins has got right, but he gets time? He's the one who deserves to be backed with time, what on earth has he done to warrant such backing?"

Baptiste? I would argue Edgar has been OK and whilst unpopular, Hammond brings something to the team that was lacking. Woolford is crap and Sammon hasn't worked out getting progressively worse after a decent start. Percentage wise, I still think he has more hits than Clough overall. The reason he should be given more time is that he hasn't had a chance yet to build a team in his image. Clough had that chance signing a total of over 20 players. Adkins has brought in 6 so far with only one commanding a fee. I think a manager should always get the chance to build his own team before being judged unless you're disastrously hurtling to relegation and need to take some immediate action as was the case with Weir. I also like his vision for the team. Attacking football. 2 up front. Pathway for youth etc. I look forward to seeing if he can implement these plans.



"He left you a play off squad, the fact some of those players were his players probably hasn't helped Adkins, but Adkins has had enough time and enough cash to sort it out better than he has. Again I'll point out that NC had the 4th biggest wage budget in the league, Adkins the second."

I strongly disagree here. The size of the squad means that he has had little room for manoeuvre up to now. In the summer, he will get the chance to release the unwanted players and put his own team together. That for me is the time to judge

 

[1danewhitehouse]

I should probably change my name.I'm not as big a blade as I was while Clough was in charge but didn't want to change and hide my views behind a new user name.

I appreciate in some people's eyes that makes my views irrelevant.

I still and will always want what's best for SUFC, a proper club with proper fans (majority) and a proper tradition, makes me sad to think you're going to have another season where you don't belong.

Are you Closeasablade from blades mad?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Alcock signed for Donny because he'd played for Ferguson at Peterborough.

Yeah I suspect that had more to do with it but it couldn't have hurt that he had just played extremely well (by his standards) against them to show he still had it/ was in form.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Are you Closeasablade from blades mad?

Well it's certainly not Trevor 1946 unless he's started taking his medication in the right order.

 

[bridgfordblade]

There are bits here I agree with and bits I strongly disagree with. I'll address as best I can.

"Butler bottled it big time, really bottled it, JCR, McNulty and Alcock the fans were slating him for freezing them out and not giving them enough of a chance, so I don't think it can work both ways. There were times when McNulty was hailed as the saviour and Clough slaughtered for publicly criticising him, I'll tell you what Clough didn't do, he didnt bomb him out on loan, he kept him in the squad."

1) I don't know what "bottled" it means with Butler- perhaps you can elaborate?

I don't recall anyone calling for Alcock to be in the team when he wasn't. I also don't recall McNulty or JCR being heralded as a saviour, just better options than his other signings Higdon and Flynn. We've since signed Done and Sharp so McNulty falls down the pecking order.

"I won't argue that he made mistakes in the transfer market, but in my opinion some of those mistakes were down to the fact he didn't/couldn't get his first choice and rather than spend big fees, he went bargain hunting. "

This I agree with. If we had landed Coady, Brayford and COG in the summer instead of Alcock, Wallace and Higdon things would have been much better.


"He signed too many bargains. Without a shadow of a doubt. I think he thought more of them would work out and to be fair, they did a job, I still believe to this day that if the Bray hadn't have got injured against Swindon, he'd have got you to Wembley at least."

2) He most certainly did not sign too many bargains! Adams is the only stand out bargain I can think of. He may have tried to sign bargains but they proved anything but. I agree with Brayford that we might have got to Wembley but don't think we'd have beaten Preston.

"Tell me one player apart from Billy that Adkins has got right, but he gets time? He's the one who deserves to be backed with time, what on earth has he done to warrant such backing?"

3) Baptiste? I would argue Edgar has been OK and whilst unpopular, Hammond brings something to the team that was lacking. Woolford is crap and Sammon hasn't worked out getting progressively worse after a decent start. Percentage wise, I still think he has more hits than Clough overall. The reason he should be given more time is that he hasn't had a chance yet to build a team in his image. Clough had that chance signing a total of over 20 players. Adkins has brought in 6 so far with only one commanding a fee. I think a manager should always get the chance to build his own team before being judged unless you're disastrously hurtling to relegation and need to take some immediate action as was the case with Weir. I also like his vision for the team. Attacking football. 2 up front. Pathway for youth etc. I look forward to seeing if he can implement these plans.



"He left you a play off squad, the fact some of those players were his players probably hasn't helped Adkins, but Adkins has had enough time and enough cash to sort it out better than he has. Again I'll point out that NC had the 4th biggest wage budget in the league, Adkins the second."

4) I strongly disagree here. The size of the squad means that he has had little room for manoeuvre up to now. In the summer, he will get the chance to release the unwanted players and put his own team together. That for me is the time to judge

This quoting thing could get quite long. I've bolded the main bits.

1) Butler was brought in to play alongside Harry Maguire, he wasn't brought in to replace him, he'd been the captain and mainstay of a Walsall side that had finished 7th. Nigel thought/hoped he was signing a leader and an experienced head to get the best out of Harry for that season, either go up and Harry stays or stay down and Harry gets his move anyway. Butler bottled it, he couldn't handle the big club dressing room and he had a shocker of a pre season and "allegedly" played a role in advising Harry to bugger off so Nige lost trust in him, when he spat his dummy out instead of getting his head down that was him done. Nigel really thought he'd persuaded Harry to give him one last season, he was gutted and felt let down when Harry decided to go.
He didn't want Butler not to work out and had high hopes when he signed him, he got it wrong and tried to fix it as quickly as he could.

2) You're right, he didn't sign too many bargains, I worded that badly. I meant he signed too many players from the bargain basement. Not enough of them worked out to be classed a success.

3) Attacking football, 2 upfront and a pathway for youth somehow = less goals scored, a move back to "old fashioned football" when pretty much every team in the land is playing a variation of 4-5-1 and a pathway to youth already existed under Clough, only he managed to integrate them into the side and still maintain a play off push.

4) Adkins had the whole of last summer to get rid of those he didn't want, nobody forced him to adopt the "clean slate" policy. It was his choice to go with the same size squad, the same players. He's meant to be a better manager than Clough, he should be able to get more out of the players than Clough did and should be able to judge players better as well. A better manager couldn't possibly take the same squad backwards.

I can guarantee Clough wouldn't have kept some of the players Adkins has kept and he wouldn't have let go some that Adkins has. After a season and two transfer windows, Adkins has to take responsibility for the squad, not Clough. Clough is history, gone, fired, he can't be blamed for Adkins' decisions. Nor for the results achieved by Adkins.

It's Adkins who has Sheffield United finishing mid table and going backwards, not Clough.

 

[BushBlade]

nobody forced him to adopt the "clean slate" policy.

How do you know that?

 

[bridgfordblade]

Are you Closeasablade from blades mad?

In the immortal words of Hong Kong Fuey.....

I'm saying nowt till my lawyer gets here ;-)

 

[Barney]

I should probably change my name.I'm not as big a blade as I was while Clough was in charge but didn't want to change and hide my views behind a new user name.

I appreciate in some people's eyes that makes my views irrelevant.

I still and will always want what's best for SUFC, a proper club with proper fans (majority) and a proper tradition, makes me sad to think you're going to have another season where you don't belong.

Eh? Do you support the Blades or not then? I know that comes across aggressive, it's not meant to.

 

[bridgfordblade]

Eh? Do you support the Blades or not then? I know that comes across aggressive, it's not meant to.

depends what you mean by support Barney, you of all posters should know there are some huge Blades who watch from afar but who don't put money into the club. In that respect, I look out for the Blades results and I want what is best for the club. I desperately want to see the Blades back in the Championship as quickly as possible.

My own definition of a supporter is someone who pays money to watch their team, doing their own tiny little bit by putting their football cash into the club, whether it's 400 quid on a season ticket and a shirt or the odd 22 quid on a matchday ticket.

By that token, and being transparent and honest, I'm a Burton Albion supporter, that's where my football money goes these days.

 

[Grappler]

I don't think you're over critical at all 1DW, and you debate the points fairly (similar to PeteBlade but maybe a touch less harsh)

I strongly agree he could have done a better job on recruitment, I don't agree he got it stinkingly wrong.

He was going to take responsibility for the mistakes he made, but he was sacked..

Butler bottled it big time, really bottled it, JCR, McNulty and Alcock the fans were slating him for freezing them out and not giving them enough of a chance, so I don't think it can work both ways. There were times when McNulty was hailed as the saviour and Clough slaughtered for publicly criticising him, I'll tell you what Clough didn't do, he didnt bomb him out on loan, he kept him in the squad.

Harris and Flynn were plenty good enough, JCR another who was hailed as brilliant when he didn't pick him and Clough was a racist for not playing him.

Now everyone sees and saw that he wasn't and isn't good enough. The goalposts got changed. Similar with Collins, Adkins should have left him out in the cold, the fact he made him such a key part of his team was a huge mistake, now people are readily accepting he wasn't the positive influence he painted himself.

I won't argue that he made mistakes in the transfer market, but in my opinion some of those mistakes were down to the fact he didn't/couldn't get his first choice and rather than spend big fees, he went bargain hunting.

Higdon was a shocking signing and even though he got a couple of important goals, his lack of movement right from the off against Bristol massively shocked me. i couldn't believe NC got it so wrong with him.

He signed too many bargains. Without a shadow of a doubt. I think he thought more of them would work out and to be fair, they did a job, I still believe to this day that if the Bray hadn't have got injured against Swindon, he'd have got you to Wembley at least.

He didn't and the rest as they say is history.

I've got no issue with people having a little pop, I've got big issues with people saying he left you in the worst state you've ever been in in your history.

He left you a play off squad, the fact some of those players were his players probably hasn't helped Adkins, but Adkins has had enough time and enough cash to sort it out better than he has. Again I'll point out that NC had the 4th biggest wage budget in the league, Adkins the second.

Adkins IS in the same position, he STILL has those players that aren't good enough. Why does he get another season to sort it out when Clough wasn't given that time. Despite achieving better results and despite the long list of plusses (that I get slated for cherry picking)

Tell me one record Adkins has broken in his season in charge? Clean sheets? Successive victories, cup wins against higher division sides?

Tell me one player apart from Billy that Adkins has got right, but he gets time? He's the one who deserves to be backed with time, what on earth has he done to warrant such backing?

Clough got some (or a lot depending on your view) stuff wrong, but he got some stuff right. What has Adkins actually got right?

"...Why does he get another season to sort it out when Clough wasn't given that time..."

Clough was going to be given that time,which is why he had done the retained list, let Doyle go, etc., but something happened in a meeting, where words were said, and Clough either walked or was sacked. The way I heard it , from someone who was usually correct, Clough pretty much walked.

 

[Grappler]

I should probably change my name.I'm not as big a blade as I was while Clough was in charge but didn't want to change and hide my views behind a new user name.

I appreciate in some people's eyes that makes my views irrelevant.

I still and will always want what's best for SUFC, a proper club with proper fans (majority) and a proper tradition, makes me sad to think you're going to have another season where you don't belong.

Ah, ok, so.....

"...I should probably change my name.I'm not as big a blade as I was while Clough was in charge but didn't want to change and hide my views behind a new user name...."

actually means

"...By that token, and being transparent and honest, I'm a Burton Albion supporter, that's where my football money goes these days....."

 

[Barney]

depends what you mean by support Barney, you of all posters should know there are some huge Blades who watch from afar but who don't put money into the club. In that respect, I look out for the Blades results and I want what is best for the club. I desperately want to see the Blades back in the Championship as quickly as possible.

My own definition of a supporter is someone who pays money to watch their team, doing their own tiny little bit by putting their football cash into the club, whether it's 400 quid on a season ticket and a shirt or the odd 22 quid on a matchday ticket.

By that token, and being transparent and honest, I'm a Burton Albion supporter, that's where my football money goes these days.

Fair enough. I don't really agree with your definition of support though. I think you're a supporter or you're not, don't think money comes in to it. There are a lot of Blades not living in the country for example who don't put money in to the club. Or you're like me and you're so pissed off that you'd rather not fund any further decline.

 

[bridgfordblade]

"...Why does he get another season to sort it out when Clough wasn't given that time..."

Clough was going to be given that time,which is why he had done the retained list, let Doyle go, etc., but something happened in a meeting, where words were said, and Clough either walked or was sacked. The way I heard it , from someone who was usually correct, Clough pretty much walked.

The way I heard it, non football people were STRONGLY questioning his football decisions and judging by the decisions they had made in the past on football issues NC thought he was more qualified to judge the shape of the playing side than they were.

When those non football people include the amiable but lacking in football knowledge co-chairman and the chairman who keeps sacking managers and has been in charge of a huge decline in fortunes, I'd say he was right to stand his ground.

I don't think he walked but I do think he made it clear he wanted to keep control of football matters. I also expect he made it clear that he generated a lot (if not all) of the money he spent/wasted and believed he would have the squad ready for a promotion push the season just gone.

You don't easily walk away from an opportunity the size of Sheffield United, he knew how big a club it is and he was desperate to have a promotion to his name with the Blades. I think he felt the line of questioning was too strong and there had been a breakdown of trust.

He was sacked, he didn't walk.

 

[cooperblade]

The way I heard it, non football people were STRONGLY questioning his football decisions and judging by the decisions they had made in the past on football issues NC thought he was more qualified to judge the shape of the playing side than they were.

When those non football people include the amiable but lacking in football knowledge co-chairman and the chairman who keeps sacking managers and has been in charge of a huge decline in fortunes, I'd say he was right to stand his ground.

I don't think he walked but I do think he made it clear he wanted to keep control of football matters. I also expect he made it clear that he generated a lot (if not all) of the money he spent/wasted and believed he would have the squad ready for a promotion push the season just gone.

You don't easily walk away from an opportunity the size of Sheffield United, he knew how big a club it is and he was desperate to have a promotion to his name with the Blades. I think he felt the line of questioning was too strong and there had been a breakdown of trust.

He was sacked, he didn't walk.

Obviously you might be making all this up (my instinct is that you aren't) but that's one of the most depressing things I've read on here.

If we've taken yet another huge step backwards because a man who continually said he'd leave the football to the football people did the opposite then I despair.

 

[Rodders]

Obviously you might be making all this up (my instinct is that you aren't) but that's one of the most depressing things I've read on here.

If we've taken yet another huge step backwards because a man who continually said he'd leave the football to the football people did the opposite then I despair.

I understand where Clough is coming from here; and given Jim's previous utterences about their lack of knowledge on football, I'd say it was right to leave the football to the football people. However, the manager must have some accountability for his decisions, surely? I'd say it's only right and fair for the Board to ask questions of him and his recruitment, given the amount of players coming in, money spent and the progress (or lack of) made.

 

[1danewhitehouse]

This quoting thing could get quite long. I've bolded the main bits.

1) Butler was brought in to play alongside Harry Maguire, he wasn't brought in to replace him, he'd been the captain and mainstay of a Walsall side that had finished 7th. Nigel thought/hoped he was signing a leader and an experienced head to get the best out of Harry for that season, either go up and Harry stays or stay down and Harry gets his move anyway. Butler bottled it, he couldn't handle the big club dressing room and he had a shocker of a pre season and "allegedly" played a role in advising Harry to bugger off so Nige lost trust in him, when he spat his dummy out instead of getting his head down that was him done. Nigel really thought he'd persuaded Harry to give him one last season, he was gutted and felt let down when Harry decided to go.
He didn't want Butler not to work out and had high hopes when he signed him, he got it wrong and tried to fix it as quickly as he could.

2) You're right, he didn't sign too many bargains, I worded that badly. I meant he signed too many players from the bargain basement. Not enough of them worked out to be classed a success.

3) Attacking football, 2 upfront and a pathway for youth somehow = less goals scored, a move back to "old fashioned football" when pretty much every team in the land is playing a variation of 4-5-1 and a pathway to youth already existed under Clough, only he managed to integrate them into the side and still maintain a play off push.

4) Adkins had the whole of last summer to get rid of those he didn't want, nobody forced him to adopt the "clean slate" policy. It was his choice to go with the same size squad, the same players. He's meant to be a better manager than Clough, he should be able to get more out of the players than Clough did and should be able to judge players better as well. A better manager couldn't possibly take the same squad backwards.

I can guarantee Clough wouldn't have kept some of the players Adkins has kept and he wouldn't have let go some that Adkins has. After a season and two transfer windows, Adkins has to take responsibility for the squad, not Clough. Clough is history, gone, fired, he can't be blamed for Adkins' decisions. Nor for the results achieved by Adkins.

It's Adkins who has Sheffield United finishing mid table and going backwards, not Clough.

1. Fair enough if you’re ITK on that. I confess to not knowing the circumstances behind the scenes, just that it turned out to be a disastrous signing.


2. We agree on that.


3. Less goals if we don’t score 2 or more on Sunday. Overall, much of a muchness but I’m hopeful that will improve when Adkins has the players to play the way he wants.


4. He didn’t have any such opportunity. He didn’t control the retained list or have any players out of contract he could release. He could only move on those that other clubs would take. He also had to get to know the players and their character which doesn’t happen overnight. Whether he is a better manager or not is debatable. I’m sure that differing circumstances could support arguments for either being better. I ,must admit though that Adkins’ style is more to my taste. Clough certainly has his strengths. One being that he worked wonders with certain players he inherited. A weakness was his squad building from the summer of 2014 onwards. We’ll see if Adkins does better or worse on that front when he has the chance to release players. He hasn’t had that chance yet. As for going backwards, we’ve done that every year regardless of manager. This has more to do with the annual sale of whoever is our best player at the time. At least Clough was given the opportunity to reinvest a big chunk in January. Adkins was afforded no such luxury.


I don’t lay the blame solely at Clough’s door. His contribution was that he assembled a very big squad. The board contributed by being unwilling to back Adkins in the same manner to bring in his own team and by sacking a manager just after he has assembled such a big squad. This summer a lot of that squad’s contracts expire. After that, Adkins has a chance to build rather than trim. It’s easy to use soundbites about “playoff team” to “mid-table team” but looking at the bigger picture, the performance has been very similar overall. Adkins has generated £1million (net) in transfer fees and trimmed the squad as the season has gone on racking up somewhere between 2-5 less points depending on Sunday’s result. Neither, in their first full season has been the resounding success that we all hoped. Both have been somewhat undermined by the sale of their star player at the start of the season. Clough had a team that was more of his choosing and did very slightly better as a result. I don’t think either warranted the sack as I think our issues go beyond the manager.

 

[BladeFisher]

I recently heard the same re alienating the players. The board (or at least McCabe) were annoyed that Clough had fallen out with a number of players, several of whom had been banished to training with the under 21s, and was refusing to even try to reconcile with them, making them worthless despite their large wages. In a nutshell, Clough had fallen out with too many people.

But how is that "not a footballing reason"? I can see it is also a trait of personality, but to me it is still a "footballing reason", relating to your playing staff.

 

[Grappler]

The way I heard it, non football people were STRONGLY questioning his football decisions and judging by the decisions they had made in the past on football issues NC thought he was more qualified to judge the shape of the playing side than they were.

When those non football people include the amiable but lacking in football knowledge co-chairman and the chairman who keeps sacking managers and has been in charge of a huge decline in fortunes, I'd say he was right to stand his ground.

I don't think he walked but I do think he made it clear he wanted to keep control of football matters. I also expect he made it clear that he generated a lot (if not all) of the money he spent/wasted and believed he would have the squad ready for a promotion push the season just gone.

You don't easily walk away from an opportunity the size of Sheffield United, he knew how big a club it is and he was desperate to have a promotion to his name with the Blades. I think he felt the line of questioning was too strong and there had been a breakdown of trust.

He was sacked, he didn't walk.

"...
He was sacked, he didn't walk...."

Well in that case Mr. Clough, why didn't you say it was you, why hide behind the name Bridgforblade?