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TomJonesBlade said:
He was deflecting, though. A director of football, who would be there to work alongside Adkins and his successor, should there be one, is a good and relevent idea. It's not up to is as fans to suggest such people, but it is up to those who run the club to headhunt people like that.

People said 'Bassett' when Dof's were mentioned, but we don't know his situation, and it was dismissed by Kev because he's not local. However, I personally don't believe that there is absolutely nobody out there who is suitable for this role, and it doesn't seem to be a priority for this club.

We had the Clough era where the football people did the football stuff, and the board people did the business stuff. That failed. Now we have a 'technical board' and are supposed to be assured that things will be different, just because it's been rearranged. I heard no real reassurances tonight.
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I agree with you, in principle, and it's clear that, post-Dooley, there has been serious problems in decision making relating to football activities. McCabe didn't rule out a DoF, in the event the right person was available. This isn't easy and he rightly mentioned the potential for conflict emerging with the manager. Before deciding whether or not to pursue a DoF, we need to decide: What would the role involve? How would it interface with the manager? And then try and find someone qualified to do the job (who lives locally to Sheffield - of course!).

Most clubs seem to be favouring a Technical Board set-up over a DoF. Be interesting to know more about their rationale.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
The comment about Turnbull (if it was a comment about Turnbull at all) was far from clear.

I just don't think it was intended as a criticism, not least because it would be the wrong place to do that.

I took it to mean possibly: Turnbull's not shown anything because he couldn't till we've made room in the squad.

Either that or he's undermining Turnbull (and by extension Adkins) in public isn't he?

He wasn't happy about recruitment, and I think the stuff about Turnbull got caught up in the middle of all that.
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I interpreted it as a pretty clear admonishment of Turnbull and his contribution to date - and, yes, by extension an inferred criticism of Adkins. At that point I was thinking Adkins's time is up. This balanced out later but it is very clear to me that Adkins will hitherto be judged on his results, not his cv.
 
People mentioning Dooley and a DOF in the same sentence are way off the mark
Dooley was no DOF he was someone with a vast amount of football knowledge who was on the board
he was more a of a Chief Exec but without the financial qualifications
I honestly dont think you need a DOF to get out of L1
 
I've read through the questions and answers on the net but I'm amazed that no one asked whether Adkins is likely to stay for next season, because it appears according to strong rumours that the Prince and McCabe don't agree!? Was this question asked and if so what's the answer given? For me that's my main concern right now.
 
Another point about this is that in the process of avoiding the questions in typical politician style, McCabe's/Prince's wording will always naturally be used to fuel more rumours and confusion.
 
The Bohemian said:
I interpreted it as a pretty clear admonishment of Turnbull and his contribution to date - and, yes, by extension an inferred criticism of Adkins. At that point I was thinking Adkins's time is up. This balanced out later but it is very clear to me that Adkins will hitherto be judged on his results, not his cv.
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Just don't see that he would do this. He's not going to undermine the manager at a public meeting.

Stuff gets batted around: you answer one question while someone's asking another, you forget what was said exactly but answer anyway, etc etc. Literal/forensic analysis isn't up to the job.

To me it was clear he supported Adkins very strongly - as he did in the recent-ish interview.

We haven't seen much from Turnbull because there's not been room in the squad.

We haven't seen much from Turnbull and he'd better pull his finger out.

I'm going for the former for now.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Just don't see that he would do this. He's not going to undermine the manager at a public meeting.

Stuff gets batted around: you answer one question while someone's asking another, you forget what was said exactly but answer anyway, etc etc. Literal/forensic analysis isn't up to the job.

To me it was clear he supported Adkins very strongly - as he did in the recent-ish interview.

We haven't seen much from Turnbull because there's not been room in the squad.

We haven't seen much from Turnbull and he'd better pull his finger out.

I'm going for the former for now.
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I'm guessing all the trialists we've seen of late in the under 21's is due to Turnbull. As you said mate, Turnbull, like Adkins, hasn't been able to stretch is muscles yet because of the budget constraints and Adkins went with tried and tested last season. Sadly "Tried and tested" failed, aside from Sharp. we all know we need younger, hungrier players from other League One or League 2 clubs but they cost more money and it seems Adkins hasn't had the support he needed or the time etc.
 
Booker4 said:
I've read through the questions and answers on the net but I'm amazed that no one asked whether Adkins is likely to stay for next season, because it appears according to strong rumours that the Prince and McCabe don't agree!? Was this question asked and if so what's the answer given? For me that's my main concern right now.
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I can't believe it's a serious issue.

There were three consecutive (convoluted) questions basically aiming for "Adkins Out" but no-one asked it outright.

Maybe too strong but I think it would've sounded daft. With all the talk about youth it was clear there is long term thinking going and the answer was strongly implicit. After it had been strongly explicit not so long ago.

Adkins has answered it after SJH.

McCabe answered it in his interview.
 
I asked two related questions: In light of the damaging EPPP legislation, do the club have to recalibrate the aims and expectations of the academy?
Is there a desire to seek category one status in order to protect it?

I think the questions were extremely pertinent, especially on the night KM based his regeneration plan on the academy system and the mythical technical board. The first team manager has also talked up a utopian goal of fifty percent of academy players reaching maturation at SUFC, and then progressing into the first team. KM initially gave the responsibility to answer to Travis Binnion, which was a little odd, but neither in the end really adequately tackled the question imo (I've spoke to others who were disappointed with the answers). We went round the houses a bit so I told them: "the crux of my question is, is the academy financially viable post EPPP. I gave the examples of kids we've lost recently to cat 1 academies. I drew a comparison between these kids and Jacob Mellis: the fact when a similar situation happened a few years ago, and Jacob Mellis went to Chelsea, we got a reported one million (they corrected me and said we made 400,000). To me it only reinforced the idea that they may be in for a rude awakening when the cream of the crop is poached, and the big fees - that cat 1 academies no longer have to pay - stop rolling in. KM answered the second question saying they'd look at category one status when in the championship.
 
nopigfansintown said:
I asked two related questions: In light of the damaging EPPP legislation, do the club have to recalibrate the aims and expectations of the academy?
Is there a desire to seek category one status in order to protect it?

I think the questions were extremely pertinent, especially on the night KM based his regeneration plan on the academy system and the mythical technical board. The first team manager has also talked up a utopian goal of fifty percent of academy players reaching maturation at SUFC, and then progressing into the first team. KM initially gave the responsibility to answer to Travis Binnion, which was a little odd, but neither in the end really adequately tackled the question imo (I've spoke to others who were disappointed with the answers). We went round the houses a bit so I told them: "the crux of my question is, is the academy financially viable post EPPP".I gave the examples of kids we've lost recently to cat 1 academies. I drew a comparison between these kids and Jacob Mellis: the fact when a similar situation happened a few years ago, and Jacob Mellis went to Chelsea, we got a reported one million (they corrected me and said we made 400,000). To me it only reinforced the idea that they may be in for a rude awakening when the cream of the crop is poached, and the big fees - that cat 1 academies no longer have to pay - stop rolling in. KM answered the second question saying they'd look at category one status when in the championship.
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This is from the club website dated, article dated 7th December 2015. I don't know if its up to date : http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/sheffield-united-martyn-green-david-green-2839510.aspx


The Blades have announced a number of off-the-field changes aimed at strengthening the board, and adding a strong local voice.


Joining the board with immediate effect are accomplished and well-known Sheffield City Region businessmen David Green and Martin Green.


David Green, owner of Renishaw-based Green Piling Ltd, is a previous Chairman and Honorary Vice Chairman. He becomes Vice Chairman with responsibly for Football Operations. His new role will see him chair the Club's Technical Board, which directs football recruitment at all levels.


Martin Green, owner of Barlborough-based Redtooth Ltd., and currently a Club Vice President, joins as Vice Chairman for Commercial and Administration. He will oversee all commercial, administrative, and non-football affairs at the Club.


Simon Westbury, of Sheffield United Limited, will, until the end of the current financial year, become acting administration manager overseeing day-to-day administration of the Club under the direction of Martin Green.


Carl Shieber, also of Sheffield United Limited, joins the Technical Board as its Player Contract Negotiation Manager. Carl has performed this role for the Club admirably in the past.


Managing Director Malachy Brannigan, who has served the Club faithfully and with distinction for nearly two years, leaves the Club with immediate effect. The Board places on record it thanks to Mr. Brannigan for his enthusiasm, positivity, energy and for his devotion to and sacrifice for the Club throughout his service. The Board wishes Mr. Brannigan well in his new endeavours.


Commenting on the changes, Co-Chairmen Kevin McCabe and Jim Phipps said:

"To get Sheffield United back on track, change is needed. We know and trust David and Martin. We value their opinions and know they will be unflinching in helping us confront the need to change within the Club. We hope supporters welcome these appointments together with Simon and Carl, to get this great Club back where we all want it to be."
 
Well I got a straight answer at least.

I asked why the technical board were allowed to sit and do fuck all whilst Clough made all his signings then sack him after a year of doing fuck all to address it.

He got rid of them all apparently, complete overhaul.
 
Here's a snippet from an old Stir article with a hint at the composition of the technical board. A note of caution though, its from October 2015.

Jim Phipps: "All such questions are left to our Technical Board (MD, football manager, FD, academy manager etc) to decide, provided they stay within board approved budgets and parameters.

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/foot...ed-chairman-jim-phipps-answers-fans-1-7535983
 

Well then let's hope David Green, owner of Renishaw-based Green Piling Ltd can use his wealth of experience in piling and foundation solutions for a small company in North Derbyshire to turn around the fortunes of the biggest failure of a football club in the country :rolleyes:
 
Would it be better if he was in the property development or bog roll business?
 
nopigfansintown said:
I asked two related questions: In light of the damaging EPPP legislation, do the club have to recalibrate the aims and expectations of the academy?
Is there a desire to seek category one status in order to protect it?
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I was going to ask the same or very similar question :)

Seemingly confused a lot of people, but very pertinent given the continual mentions of the academy throughout the evening.
 
As I see it, the academy, which is now expected to produce an even higher percentage of first team players, whilst a CAT 2 academy will get cherry picked on a regular basis by prem league clubs, thus making it even more difficult to achieve it's goals. The added problem with this, is that prem league are allowed to this whilst paying next to nothing in compensation.

I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that gaining CAT 1 status prevents these prem league clubs from pillaging our best prospects, or at least makes it more difficult
 
nopigfansintown said:
I asked two related questions: In light of the damaging EPPP legislation, do the club have to recalibrate the aims and expectations of the academy?
Is there a desire to seek category one status in order to protect it?

I think the questions were extremely pertinent, especially on the night KM based his regeneration plan on the academy system and the mythical technical board. The first team manager has also talked up a utopian goal of fifty percent of academy players reaching maturation at SUFC, and then progressing into the first team. KM initially gave the responsibility to answer to Travis Binnion, which was a little odd, but neither in the end really adequately tackled the question imo (I've spoke to others who were disappointed with the answers). We went round the houses a bit so I told them: "the crux of my question is, is the academy financially viable post EPPP. I gave the examples of kids we've lost recently to cat 1 academies. I drew a comparison between these kids and Jacob Mellis: the fact when a similar situation happened a few years ago, and Jacob Mellis went to Chelsea, we got a reported one million (they corrected me and said we made 400,000). To me it only reinforced the idea that they may be in for a rude awakening when the cream of the crop is poached, and the big fees - that cat 1 academies no longer have to pay - stop rolling in. KM answered the second question saying they'd look at category one status when in the championship.
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Haven't got time to go into it now but this wasn't resolved:
  • I think the point that clubs have poached younger players since time immemorial is a good one - like so many things there's a new way of doing it but the practice is ancient
  • Mellis burning down the changing room(?) can be seen as a story with a moral
  • Cat 1 status does not protect your players was interesting
  • If Cat 1 status doesn't matter, why reconsider upgrading
  • Binnion is "not a fan of Cat 1 football, your turn, my turn" was that the quote?
I think the whole Academy angle is worth a thread of its own.
 
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nopigfansintown said:
This is from the club website dated, article dated 7th December 2015. I don't know if its up to date : http://www.sufc.co.uk/news/article/sheffield-united-martyn-green-david-green-2839510.aspx


The Blades have announced a number of off-the-field changes aimed at strengthening the board, and adding a strong local voice.


Joining the board with immediate effect are accomplished and well-known Sheffield City Region businessmen David Green and Martin Green.


David Green, owner of Renishaw-based Green Piling Ltd, is a previous Chairman and Honorary Vice Chairman. He becomes Vice Chairman with responsibly for Football Operations. His new role will see him chair the Club's Technical Board, which directs football recruitment at all levels.


Martin Green, owner of Barlborough-based Redtooth Ltd., and currently a Club Vice President, joins as Vice Chairman for Commercial and Administration. He will oversee all commercial, administrative, and non-football affairs at the Club.


Simon Westbury, of Sheffield United Limited, will, until the end of the current financial year, become acting administration manager overseeing day-to-day administration of the Club under the direction of Martin Green.


Carl Shieber, also of Sheffield United Limited, joins the Technical Board as its Player Contract Negotiation Manager. Carl has performed this role for the Club admirably in the past.


Managing Director Malachy Brannigan, who has served the Club faithfully and with distinction for nearly two years, leaves the Club with immediate effect. The Board places on record it thanks to Mr. Brannigan for his enthusiasm, positivity, energy and for his devotion to and sacrifice for the Club throughout his service. The Board wishes Mr. Brannigan well in his new endeavours.


Commenting on the changes, Co-Chairmen Kevin McCabe and Jim Phipps said:

"To get Sheffield United back on track, change is needed. We know and trust David and Martin. We value their opinions and know they will be unflinching in helping us confront the need to change within the Club. We hope supporters welcome these appointments together with Simon and Carl, to get this great Club back where we all want it to be."
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As a first time attender of a fan's forum I listened attentively to Kevin McCabe and the fairly predictable manner in which he responded to questions from the floor.

Amongst many interesting questions raised, the one that rang heavily in my mind was that of the sale of Kevin McDonald. McCabe talked of contractual clauses that meant we were boxed into a corner where McDonald's sale was concerned. Does this suggest that the previous incumbent responsible for negotiating contracts was lead a merry dance by McDonald's agent? Was the club's employee responsible for contract negotiation at the time possessed of such poor ability that a clause was allowed to be included meaning that McDonald could leave SUFC for such an appallingly low figure? Contract negotiation is always an intense part of securing any player's signature, but the inclusion of this clause revealed such poor negotiating skill that I'm massively surprised that it hasn't been questioned before.

Part of my job is adopt a forensic approach to contract negotiation. Something as damaging as the inclusion of a clause designed to let a key player leave SUFC, once a specific figure was flagged up by a competing club in the same division as SUFC, is something I'd fight tooth and nail to make sure was not included in an agreement. We appear to have shot a sizeable hole in our foot over this. Presumably there exists other player agreements that include similarly damaging clauses?

If the club is so poorly served in this department I'd offer my services to SUFC in exchange for a negotiated financial return.
 
TomJonesBlade said:
The repetition of 'luck' really pissed me off, actually.

You make your own luck in any league. You need a matchday squad of 18 that can do a job on the opposition. That's what promotion sides do.

Say Ched didn't get sent down when he did. Say the whole thing hadn't happened. Say he pulled his hamstring badly instead of going to prison. We still wouldn't have gone up, because our talisman was out of action.

Is that bad luck, or is that a lack of depth in the squad? Who was up front for us when Ched wasn't available? Was he adequate?...
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Agree that talking about bad luck constantly is the wrong thing to do. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy because it gives everyone an excuse to fail.

Not sure that I agree that we wouldn't have gone up if Ched had just pulled his hamstring though. I think that a big part of the problem was the shock the players felt at one of their mates being sent to prison when they had all assumed he'd get off. The MK Dons match felt almost funereal. The atmosphere around the club wouldn't have been like that if Ched had just got injured.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Haven't got time to go into it now but this wasn't resolved:
  • I think the point that clubs have poached younger players since time immemorial is a good one - like so many things there's a new way of doing it but the practice is ancient
  • Mellis burning down the changing room(?) can be seen as a story with a moral
  • Cat 1 status does not protect your players was interesting
  • If Cat 1 status doesn't matter, why reconsider upgrading
  • Binnion is "not a fan of Cat 1 football, your turn, my turn" was that the quote?
I think the whole Academy angle is worth a thread of its own.
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I'd agree that you cant keep young players if they want to go, or players in general for that matter. The key point, imo, is do we have an academy system that is still sustainable after the watershed moment of EPPP. Can we keep top talent to maturity, or realise big fees for the quality of the top talents on our pitch? KM stated that the academy was not loss making yesterday, thus (so far) not a burden on the club or its current owners pockets. If that changes post EPPP, what future does the academy and the wider club have? We couldn't keep a Mellis now or then, but we'd have to be cat 1 to realise the big fee. Some clubs eg Hereford, Yeovil and Wycombe have disbanded their system. This article on Watford shows them actually scale down operations in 2012: http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sp..._between_a_Category_1_and_3_Academy_/?ref=rss

I don't want to do Travis Binnion a disservice, but he said, "we only need players for a league one club". Imo that's totally wrong: we need players that make the category 2 academy a viable project.
 
The Bohemian said:
I interpreted it as a pretty clear admonishment of Turnbull and his contribution to date - and, yes, by extension an inferred criticism of Adkins. At that point I was thinking Adkins's time is up. This balanced out later but it is very clear to me that Adkins will hitherto be judged on his results, not his cv.
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Think you are spot on there Bohemian.Athough the club is supporting Adkins, McCabe and Co are not too happy with his early moves in the transfer market, there is obviously a lot of discussion taking
place.,but I think he will be given the backing to put together a squad able to achieve our goal next season ( if of course we miss out this one )
 
nopigfansintown said:
A decent article on EPPP for the uninitiated. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...s-bad-for-the-future-of-the-English-game.html

Another about Watford going from Cat 1 to 3 due to the costs. It mentions the difference in fees received for players depending on your academies status and the costs of running an academy.

http://www.watfordobserver.co.uk/sp..._between_a_Category_1_and_3_Academy_/?ref=rss
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Really rushed this morning but:

"Top" clubs will only have room for so many players - others will always drift down. This has always been the way - the mechanism has changed but in Division 3 we'll have access to the same players we always did.
The moral of the Mellis story could be seen to be that it's the mercenaries who leave for the money and their motivation (and therefore potential achievements) is questionable.
If Wendy went Cat 1 it wouldn't be a concern was a surprise but you have to respect that opinion - for now.

Really interesting that Binnion didn't think Cat 1 was a big deal.

But if it's not a big deal why upgrade in Division 2?
 
itsinyerblood said:
As a first time attender of a fan's forum I listened attentively to Kevin McCabe and the fairly predictable manner in which he responded to questions from the floor.

Amongst many interesting questions raised, the one that rang heavily in my mind was that of the sale of Kevin McDonald. McCabe talked of contractual clauses that meant we were boxed into a corner where McDonald's sale was concerned. Does this suggest that the previous incumbent responsible for negotiating contracts was lead a merry dance by McDonald's agent? Was the club's employee responsible for contract negotiation at the time possessed of such poor ability that a clause was allowed to be included meaning that McDonald could leave SUFC for such an appallingly low figure? Contract negotiation is always an intense part of securing any player's signature, but the inclusion of this clause revealed such poor negotiating skill that I'm massively surprised that it hasn't been questioned before.

Part of my job is adopt a forensic approach to contract negotiation. Something as damaging as the inclusion of a clause designed to let a key player leave SUFC, once a specific figure was flagged up by a competing club in the same division as SUFC, is something I'd fight tooth and nail to make sure was not included in an agreement. We appear to have shot a sizeable hole in our foot over this. Presumably there exists other player agreements that include similarly damaging clauses?

If the club is so poorly served in this department I'd offer my services to SUFC in exchange for a negotiated financial return.
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Its not just us, look at the case of Robert Green at QPR, can't even go out on loan as one more game triggers a new contract that QPR don't want to offer, cheaper to let him do nowt, crazy world is football.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Really rushed this morning but:

"Top" clubs will only have room for so many players - others will always drift down. This has always been the way - the mechanism has changed but in Division 3 we'll have access to the same players we always did.
The moral of the Mellis story could be seen to be that it's the mercenaries who leave for the money and their motivation (and therefore potential achievements) is questionable.
If Wendy went Cat 1 it wouldn't be a concern was a surprise but you have to respect that opinion - for now.

Really interesting that Binnion didn't think Cat 1 was a big deal.

But if it's not a big deal why upgrade in Division 2?
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If he's saying it can produce third division standard players with the status quo - I'd be inclined to agree with him. The club would naturally then have a reduced need to outsource this standard of player (saving monies). If he believes that we could get a great crop, say, like Southampton, or just one outstanding player, I would have serious reservations. The Southampton academy model (from when they were in L1) is now an anachronism imo. The quality of players they had would, in all likelihood, be poached before they ever really began fulfilling their rich potential and carrying you up the leagues (or being sold for hefty fees). As for picking players up further down the line: do we need a seven figure academy to do that? We didn't with Tonge and Jags. Did Che really glean that much from it? I don't want to give the impression of being anti academy. I'm precisely the opposite and concerned the one thing KM's consistently got right is going the wrong way.
 

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