Assumptions

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pommpey

pommpey

THE FUTURE ... AS IT USED TO BE
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Guys and girls

Why is everyone clinging on by their fingernails to the following assumptions, please:

1. 'Adkins is ripe for sacking'.

Adkins took over from another sacked manager, who in truth, wasn't given much chance to make a positiive impact and was more possibly booted out because of unfulfilled promises from the board. This no doubt came at great expense to the club. Sacking Adkins just gets us back to square one, and no better off than we are today. Besides, if you changed six or seven players in that startingf eleven with decent, viable talent, you wouldn't be calling for Adkins head. Adkins has no say in that, only makes suggestions on who to target. Sacking him is the most ridiculous gesture ever, and shows us to have one plan and one plan only and an inability to see where the problems are. I have stated elsewhere that we could have Mourinho or Guardiola with this lot and we'd still be twelfth in the third tier of English football. If the talent on the pitch is denuded and we are left with poor players, it doesn't matter what manager we have. So why target a blameless entity? The only fault he has is that he has to remina upbeat, positive and supportive of the mendaciosu chimp who owns the club, or else he will be sacked.

2. 'Loads of players are out of contract in June so therefore will be shown the door'.

Do you really think this? Seriously? Yeah, we'll save some cash in wages, but at the expense of what? Well. we will certainly struggle a bit to fill places, who will want to come to BDTBL to fill those gaps? And how do we fund such a move on the proceeds of players wages from empty spaces, unless we buy cheap or on a free and pay peanuts for monkeys? Do you not think the better move for the club (but of course not for us - but what the fuck do we matter?) would be to re-sign these players on a reduced wage deal, as if they are released from United, their prospects elsewhere are next to nil? You know who I am talking about and it is eight or nine players who seem to pick themselves every week or so.

3. 'Loads of players will be brought in'.

From where? And with what? I don't see many coming to United for nil transfer fees and nil wages. Why should they when teams like Burton Albion et al are away over the horizon compared to us? They will be promising Championship football next season. We won't be. And these 'young, hungry' footballers. Weren't people like Reed, Kennedy, McFadzean, Ironside, Kahn all once upon a time young and hungry? We gave them contracts and then what?

4. McCabe will invest.

Will he fuck.

pommpey
 



I agree with your post and would keep Adkins.

What doesn't help the situation and those calling for his head in a McCabe-like, trigger happy, nonsensical solution to make shit players who don't care suddenly title contenders is that a very good former manager is doing exceptionally well just down the road.
 
PeteBlade said:
On what basis was Clough not given a proper chance?

He brought in enough players to fill 3 teams.
Click to expand...

Even tho I don't understand at least two of the words in the OP, it's pretty much nail on head to me.

Proper chance as in sacked after being the only manager to improve our position for ? 15 ? Years?

Just because argumentative arses on here like to call him a cunt for doing so (and yes, he had his best player sold too, remember?) doesn't change that fact.
The majority would have kept him, you know, semi finals, play offs. Seem further away now don't they?
But, hey, jimbo says he was naughty.
 
Hi Pommpey/Vic,

You won't recall probably but we met in Trinidad and Tobago way, way back. Hope all is well.

For my two cents:

1. I think the club and the fans aren't wanting us to be a sacking club but when it comes to Adkins doing his year end debrief on what he's achieved he'll need to be creative.

Results poor.
Recruitment poor in quality and value.
Entertainment low.
Player morale and motivation low.
Reasons to be cheerful limited.

2. Agree that whilst a new broom and total clean sweep sounds great, others still need to replace a number of them and signing new squad players is probably more expensive than retaining current ones due to signing on fees and agent fees so some seen as borderline like McEveley will remain.

3. Once we release, some will be retained, loanees will return, more U21/U18s will sign up so the squad will have a workable size but be low on experience.

4. We have no 'best player' at the moment so McCabe will not have the occasion to flog the family silver as none is left.

For what it's worth Clough Year One was good. No idea why he lost the plot and accumulated so many players in year Two.
 
Someone will have to "invest" just to cover the ongoing losses. Fixed costs will be pretty much known so it all depends on the player budget that Adkins or whoever gets.
 
Fair point on Branaghan but it was Clough who said he preferred a small squad.

Not clear why he wanted to veer away from this approach, it had served him well.
 
I think it's pretty clear that there is indecision on what they want to do in the near future, the biggest clue being the reluctance to despatch the season ticket renewal forms.
 
pommpey said:
Guys and girls

Why is everyone clinging on by their fingernails to the following assumptions, please:

1. 'Adkins is ripe for sacking'.

Adkins took over from another sacked manager, who in truth, wasn't given much chance to make a positiive impact and was more possibly booted out because of unfulfilled promises from the board. This no doubt came at great expense to the club. Sacking Adkins just gets us back to square one, and no better off than we are today. Besides, if you changed six or seven players in that startingf eleven with decent, viable talent, you wouldn't be calling for Adkins head. Adkins has no say in that, only makes suggestions on who to target. Sacking him is the most ridiculous gesture ever, and shows us to have one plan and one plan only and an inability to see where the problems are. I have stated elsewhere that we could have Mourinho or Guardiola with this lot and we'd still be twelfth in the third tier of English football. If the talent on the pitch is denuded and we are left with poor players, it doesn't matter what manager we have. So why target a blameless entity? The only fault he has is that he has to remina upbeat, positive and supportive of the mendaciosu chimp who owns the club, or else he will be sacked.

2. 'Loads of players are out of contract in June so therefore will be shown the door'.

Do you really think this? Seriously? Yeah, we'll save some cash in wages, but at the expense of what? Well. we will certainly struggle a bit to fill places, who will want to come to BDTBL to fill those gaps? And how do we fund such a move on the proceeds of players wages from empty spaces, unless we buy cheap or on a free and pay peanuts for monkeys? Do you not think the better move for the club (but of course not for us - but what the fuck do we matter?) would be to re-sign these players on a reduced wage deal, as if they are released from United, their prospects elsewhere are next to nil? You know who I am talking about and it is eight or nine players who seem to pick themselves every week or so.

3. 'Loads of players will be brought in'.

From where? And with what? I don't see many coming to United for nil transfer fees and nil wages. Why should they when teams like Burton Albion et al are away over the horizon compared to us? They will be promising Championship football next season. We won't be. And these 'young, hungry' footballers. Weren't people like Reed, Kennedy, McFadzean, Ironside, Kahn all once upon a time young and hungry? We gave them contracts and then what?

4. McCabe will invest.

Will he fuck.

pommpey
Click to expand...

So what your saying is that we should stick with Adkins, we can't get rid of the majority of the squad and he won't be able to bring in new players.

So we will have the same manager, with a similar squad. Who he has failed to get the best out of already.

You say guardiola or mourinho couldn't get this lot above mid table.....Nigel Clough did.

I agree with you that sacking a manager after just one season isn't the right thing to do. But what if that manager has dramatically under performed, has no clear style of play, system or strategy, clearly can't get the best out of some players and talks a load of nonsense.
 
Borbokisfreekick said:
But what if that manager has dramatically under performed, has no clear style of play, system or strategy, clearly can't get the best out of some players and talks a load of nonsense.
Click to expand...

He keeps Rotherham up.
 



Champagneblade said:
Fair point on Branaghan but it was Clough who said he preferred a small squad.

Not clear why he wanted to veer away from this approach, it had served him well.
Click to expand...
He would have got rid of many he didn't want last summer ,he had started with Doyle (wrongly) and then just replaced them with 2 or 3 that he needed. Adkins decided to give everyone a chance.
 
It may just be the best thing?
Some new players who get along with eachother. Have ambition and desire that so far no one has spotted. Do not expect anything more than to work hard for the manager and the club and fans.
Oh the hope in my head!
 
nowtfancy said:
Even tho I don't understand at least two of the words in the OP, it's pretty much nail on head to me.

Proper chance as in sacked after being the only manager to improve our position for ? 15 ? Years?

Just because argumentative arses on here like to call him a cunt for doing so (and yes, he had his best player sold too, remember?) doesn't change that fact.
The majority would have kept him, you know, semi finals, play offs. Seem further away now don't they?
But, hey, jimbo says he was naughty.
Click to expand...
When were judging success as moving forward from relegation threatened to promotion hopefuls (but failures) from England's third division, we are in trouble.

As with Robson's tenure, a monkey could have improved or Weir.

I think Clough's squad building and legacy is comparable to that of the Robson era, on the reduced scale of the divisions. It takes a special effort to sign so many players that have immediately and almost without exception gone on to worse things, having taken enormous wages and offered absolutely zero resale value.

He had successes (Murphy) but overall, we will be paying the price for his actions for years to come.

UTB
 
Borbokisfreekick said:
So what your saying is that we should stick with Adkins, we can't get rid of the majority of the squad and he won't be able to bring in new players.

So we will have the same manager, with a similar squad. Who he has failed to get the best out of already.

You say guardiola or mourinho couldn't get this lot above mid table.....Nigel Clough did.

I agree with you that sacking a manager after just one season isn't the right thing to do. But what if that manager has dramatically under performed, has no clear style of play, system or strategy, clearly can't get the best out of some players and talks a load of nonsense.
Click to expand...

This isn't Clough's team. It's minus a quarter of the major talent for a start and what is left is clearly not enough to progress in any way at all.

You can't strategise, organise a style of play or get the best out of players who aren't good footballers at this level. Were this team playing in the Tampax league they'd probably be smashing all out of sight. That's where they are. The three or so above that level are keeping us where we are. Where would we be without Sharps goals? Who is next top scorer?

If you gave Adkins Sharp, Done, Brayford and possibly Adams ... and then gave him ten million to spend on playing staff alone ... we'd see what we'd want to see. Quite how long we'd keep hold of these players to pay for a fucking football pitch (for example) is anyone's guess.

pommpey
 
alcoblade said:
When were judging success as moving forward from relegation threatened to promotion hopefuls (but failures) from England's third division, we are in trouble.

As with Robson's tenure, a monkey could have improved or Weir.

I think Clough's squad building and legacy is comparable to that of the Robson era, on the reduced scale of the divisions. It takes a special effort to sign so many players that have immediately and almost without exception gone on to worse things, having taken enormous wages and offered absolutely zero resale value.

He had successes (Murphy) but overall, we will be paying the price for his actions for years to come.

UTB
Click to expand...

Well I won't argue that we're not in trouble!

I don't think there's any comparison with Robson. What did he do after us?

I hope clough enjoys his promotion.
I wish it was with us.
 
nowtfancy said:
Well I won't argue that we're not in trouble!

I don't think there's any comparison with Robson. What did he do after us?

I hope clough enjoys his promotion.
I wish it was with us.
Click to expand...
I was referring to the impact his signings have had on us. They will hold us back for some years to come. Ditto Robson.

Good luck to Clough at Burton, but he hasn't built that squad, and their form since his arrival is pedestrian. Either way, it's not my point.

UTB
 
pommpey said:
This isn't Clough's team. It's minus a quarter of the major talent for a start and what is left is clearly not enough to progress in any way at all.

You can't strategise, organise a style of play or get the best out of players who aren't good footballers at this level. Were this team playing in the Tampax league they'd probably be smashing all out of sight. That's where they are. The three or so above that level are keeping us where we are. Where would we be without Sharps goals? Who is next top scorer?

If you gave Adkins Sharp, Done, Brayford and possibly Adams ... and then gave him ten million to spend on playing staff alone ... we'd see what we'd want to see. Quite how long we'd keep hold of these players to pay for a fucking football pitch (for example) is anyone's guess.

pommpey
Click to expand...
I'm so fucking tired of having to post the same thing every day when someone pops up with the 'same team that Clough took to the playoffs' statement

We lost Murphy, Davies and Holt. How many goals and assists were there from those three? And we lost our Captain who was also our only decent defensive midfielder.

Even if you were of the opinion that we only needed three or four (which I wasn't; I advocated binning the twats at the start of the season and making them train alone or fuck off, and signing a significant number of players, as Jackett did at Wolves), then after losing those, plus Ben Davies we still needed to sign eight or nine. Ideally before the pre-season, not after KM wakes up following a humiliating defeat and puts his hand in his pocket.
 
BushBlade said:
I'm so fucking tired of having to post the same thing every day when someone pops up with the 'same team that Clough took to the playoffs' statement

We lost Murphy, Davies and Holt. How many goals and assists were there from those three? And we lost our Captain who was also our only decent defensive midfielder.

Even if you were of the opinion that we only needed three or four (which I wasn't; I advocated binning the twats at the start of the season and making them train alone or fuck off, and signing a significant number of players, as Jackett did at Wolves), then after losing those, plus Ben Davies we still needed to sign eight or nine. Ideally before the pre-season, not after KM wakes up following a humiliating defeat and puts his hand in his pocket.
Click to expand...
sorry i love this. murphy has turned into George Best since he left.. Holt and Davies were slaughtered on here
 



alcoblade said:
When were judging success as moving forward from relegation threatened to promotion hopefuls (but failures) from England's third division, we are in trouble.

As with Robson's tenure, a monkey could have improved or Weir.

I think Clough's squad building and legacy is comparable to that of the Robson era, on the reduced scale of the divisions. It takes a special effort to sign so many players that have immediately and almost without exception gone on to worse things, having taken enormous wages and offered absolutely zero resale value.

He had successes (Murphy) but overall, we will be paying the price for his actions for years to come.

UTB
Click to expand...

So if a monkey could have improved on weir's tenure, and Adkins has come in after Clough had got us to 5th and the semi's and now taken us backward, what does that make Adkins??? Because by your rational a monkey would be better than Adkins!

I can't wait for the next monkey to come along and improve on where Adkins has got us to this year. Hopefully that monkey will take us to a couple more semi finals and at least a play off birth.
 
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