Lets do a Midtylland

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FriethBlade

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They have adopted a rule that 35% of all minutes played in a season must be by academy players. Obviously you can't implement this kind of concept immediately but a phased progression combined with a properly funded academy and scouting system has to be the way forward.

Everyone is sick of the money wasted on old, slow overpaid signings and something like this provides a base which new managers have to work from reducing turnover of players.

If we are going to fail I'd rather we failed trying to develop our own than buying others cast offs
 



Hi Frieth,

I half heard a piece on the radio t'other morning about Midtylland, I thought it said that their management had implemented a strategy for buying players that was based on the way the baseball team had done in the film "Moneyball"......... I was too sleepy for any of it to really sink in.

The team has come a hell of a long way in a short time, do they buy players based on nought more than statistical analysis or something?

(i.e. taking some of the prejudices of the manager out of the equation)

Would you be able to shed any light on this please? I've not even watched the film............
 
I half heard a piece on the radio t'other morning about Midtylland, I thought it said that their management had implemented a strategy for buying players that was based on the way the baseball team had done in the film "Moneyball".........

Great film. Try and see it.

Essentially it was using statistical methods of rating players and fitting them into a team rather than hype or gut instinct...

''Billy Beane, general manager of MLB's Oakland A's and protagonist of Michael Lewis's Moneyball had a problem: how to win in the Major Leagues with a budget that's smaller than that of nearly every other team. Conventional wisdom long held that big name, highly athletic hitters and young pitchers with rocket arms were the ticket to success. But Beane and his staff, buoyed by massive amounts of carefully interpreted statistical data, believed that wins could be had by more affordable methods such as hitters with high on-base percentage and pitchers who get lots of ground outs. Given this information and a tight budget, Beane defied tradition and his own scouting department to build winning teams of young affordable players and inexpensive cast-off veterans.
Lewis was in the room with the A's top management as they spent the summer of 2002 adding and subtracting players and he provides outstanding play-by-play. In the June player draft, Beane acquired nearly every prospect he coveted (few of whom were coveted by other teams) and at the July trading deadline he engaged in a tense battle of nerves to acquire a lefty reliever.''

'Left Reliever'...where's Darren when you want him?
 
Hi Frieth,

I half heard a piece on the radio t'other morning about Midtylland, I thought it said that their management had implemented a strategy for buying players that was based on the way the baseball team had done in the film "Moneyball"......... I was too sleepy for any of it to really sink in.

The team has come a hell of a long way in a short time, do they buy players based on nought more than statistical analysis or something?

(i.e. taking some of the prejudices of the manager out of the equation)

Would you be able to shed any light on this please? I've not even watched the film............
Vorpal, the guy who owns them also owns Brentford and it's at Brentford wheres he's implemented the 'statistical approach'

Fulwood, I agree let's carry on as we are cus it's working a treat
 
vorpal blade FC Midtjylland are owned by Matthew Benham who also owns Brentford. It's where he first implemented his statistical analysis approach and it meant that a middling club won their first ever Danish title within two years. It's not quite going to plan at Brentford though I suspect that part of that is due to them waiting for the new ground.
 
Yes thanks for the information all of you. The Brentford tip led me to this article, though you all seem very well informed already.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...-are-hoping-United-lose-against-the-odds.html

I suppose what is interesting about a fresh approach to selecting players is that the English system seems too much like an 'old boys' network to be regarded as at all efficient or 'successful'.
 
Would you be able to shed any light on this please? I've not even watched the film............

I read the book (Micheal Lewis is a great writer), and have seen the film. You're talking about sport analytics. I'm fascinated by it (and would love to get into sport/football analytics software development!). It's massive in the states across all sports, when we announced an owner who likes NFL and an American Chairman I did half expect us to go down that route, and am quite surprised we haven't!

I should probably start by saying I'm not that into baseball, and almost everything I know of the sport is through being slightly obsessed with sabermetrics/moneyball (so you'll have to excuse any lack of knowledge about the sport itself!).

In the 70s a guy called Bill James started collecting baseball statistics. Rather than collecting statistics about the game, he wanted to devise a method which could objectively assess players. He called this "sabermetrics". From a blurb (via Wikipedia):

Bill James defined sabermetrics as "the search for objective knowledge about baseball." Thus, sabermetrics attempts to answer objective questions about baseball, such as "which player on the Red Sox contributed the most to the team's offense?" or "How many home runs will Ken Griffey hit next year?" It cannot deal with the subjective judgments which are also important to the game, such as "Who is your favorite player?" or "That was a great game."

Over the years he's discovered a staggering amount of ways to statistically measure baseball players/teams (see here for a synopsis of a few of them). To provide one example: OBP (on base percentage, although you have to get used to 'mericans calling things percentages that aren't actually a percentage!) measures how often a batter reaches a base (a bit simplified) using the following equation:

56e63a7b1b0724813e09ba0ab1160a22.png

H = Hits
BB = Bases on Balls (Walks)
HBP = Hit By Pitch
AB = At bats
SF = Sacrifice Flies

Don't worry too much about the maths, the important thing to realise is that these are all stats readily available for every game, every play and every player past (going back to 1871!), present and future. This is stuff that is recorded at every game. The uptake of sabermetrics coincided with the advent of powerful computing, it suddenly because possible to feed all these stats into a computer for every player in the league (indeed, every player that ever existed!) and generate tables of advanced statistics using sabermetric equations.

Before Billy Beane, scouts/GMs had used subjective views (how good he looks, or to use an example from the film, finding players who have the right "tools") and looked at the traditional stats. They'd maybe look at runs batted in, home runs, etc. Billy Beane (and Paul DePodesta, played by Jonah Hill in the film) decided to ignore traditional statistics completely, and even ignore scouting opinion on players, and recruit players solely using sabermetrics. They realized sabermetrics wasn't just good for looking back at how a player had performed, they could also use it as a way to predict how players will perform in the future (and that this is a better gauge of a player's abilities than traditional statistics, which were still being used by the rest of the league at the time). To use the example above, they realised things like hits and home runs were overrated methods of assessing a player, and that over the course of a season, how often a player got on base (OBP) was a more important statistic. Because this was being ignored by the rest of the league, they could sign players with very high OBP, but who perhaps had lower hits/home runs/whatever relatively cheaply.

They were moderately successful (they didn't actually win anything!), but they completely changed baseball player recruitment across the league. Every team now uses sabermetrics.

This is already becoming part of football, you've probably heard of things like Prozone (now part of Football Manager), Opta, InStat. I'm not sure there has been (or indeed, will ever be) the same sort of revolution and consensus that happened with baseball/Moneyball. The weird signings Liverpool made (i.e. Andy Carroll for £35 million) were said to be driven by Moneyball-type analysis of players.

I would highly recommend reading the books The Numbers Game: Why Everything You Know About Football is Wrong and Soccernomics if you're interested in this kind of thing (Adkins name checked one of these books when he was hired btw!). Oh, and if you're into baseball at all, there's a game called Out of the Park Baseball which is the baseball equivelent of Football Manager, and includes sabermetrics. It's a great way of learning about it (after you've watched Moneyball of course!).
 
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My boy is at Barnsley Academy and they have developed a similar system (stop sniggering at the back) and from start of this season they have recruited and also scored every player at the club from the first team down to U9s in a similar manner.. The owner presented to all parents the reasoning and gave examples of how they believe the characteristics a player should have for a certain position and then how they scored players against this. My lad is at 6.5/10 from his games and the best score in the club was 7.2 at the time.

I'm sat on the fence if honest about it all and somewhat sceptical as the owner and his son made their money in IT databases so believe to an extent this has a baring on it all....

They have fed this back to the boys and also given video examples of both strengths and weaknesses they have shown during a match to give them real examples of what they are looking for and that has really hit home with my lad for certain and his development and confidence have both improved greatly over the season, again not sure that would be the case if he had scored low like some of his team mates.
 
It's about 80% bollocks in respect of football. There are too many unpredictables. Baseball is effectively a series of set pieces and thus lends itself to statistical analysis far better than football does.

The main reason Midtylland improved is because Benham invested money in them. Just like Brentford.

Stats are useful but they will never tell the full picture, particularly when you're trying to factor in differences in standards of football across the globe or trying to assess how a player will fit into a team.

Liverpool and Villa are two great examples of clubs that have relied too heavily on statistical analysis and spent huge amounts of money on unsuitable players.
 



My boy is at Barnsley Academy and they have developed a similar system (stop sniggering at the back) and from start of this season they have recruited and also scored every player at the club from the first team down to U9s in a similar manner.. The owner presented to all parents the reasoning and gave examples of how they believe the characteristics a player should have for a certain position and then how they scored players against this. My lad is at 6.5/10 from his games and the best score in the club was 7.2 at the time.

I'm sat on the fence if honest about it all and somewhat sceptical as the owner and his son made their money in IT databases so believe to an extent this has a baring on it all....

They have fed this back to the boys and also given video examples of both strengths and weaknesses they have shown during a match to give them real examples of what they are looking for and that has really hit home with my lad for certain and his development and confidence have both improved greatly over the season, again not sure that would be the case if he had scored low like some of his team mates.
Only my opinion but I don't think that's a very good idea for two reasons, one being the one you touch on in that scoring youngsters against each other in such a way won't be doing anything for confidence, which is a big thing at that age and the other being that I just don't think ability can be pinpointed down to a case of decimals. It all seems a bit fantasist to me.
 
It's about 80% bollocks in respect of football. There are too many unpredictables. Baseball is effectively a series of set pieces and thus lends itself to statistical analysis far better than football does.

The main reason Midtylland improved is because Benham invested money in them. Just like Brentford.

Stats are useful but they will never tell the full picture, particularly when you're trying to factor in differences in standards of football across the globe or trying to assess how a player will fit into a team.

Liverpool and Villa are two great examples of clubs that have relied too heavily on statistical analysis and spent huge amounts of money on unsuitable players.

This is my take (and I'm a big Baseball fan and think Bill James is a terrific writer). Stats have their place, but you can't do with football what you can do in baseball.

It made me laugh when the Guardian excitedly revealed that Brentford's advanced analytics showed that most goals are scored after moves of just a few passes. Charles Hughes was saying that 40 years ago, and Bassett and Graham Taylor based their philosophies around it.

I recommend Moneyball to anyone who hasn't read it.
 
This is my take (and I'm a big Baseball fan and think Bill James is a terrific writer). Stats have their place, but you can't do with football what you can do in baseball.

It made me laugh when the Guardian excitedly revealed that Brentford's advanced analytics showed that most goals are scored after moves of just a few passes. Charles Hughes was saying that 40 years ago, and Bassett and Graham Taylor based their philosophies around it.

I recommend Moneyball to anyone who hasn't read it.
Apparently Warburton was sacked because the statistical analysis showed the club was over performing. The analysis of his decisions showed that they should actually be lower than they were.

I know, I don't get it either.
 
Apparently Warburton was sacked because the statistical analysis showed the club was over performing. The analysis of his decisions showed that they should actually be lower than they were.

I know, I don't get it either.

I will say this for the Brentford owner - putting money into a Danish team is a canny investment. Not much to spend to get European football and the riches it unlocks.

Of course, McCabe tried this with Ferencvaros. Unfortunately he put Terry Robinson in charge.
 
I will say this for the Brentford owner - putting money into a Danish team is a canny investment. Not much to spend to get European football and the riches it unlocks.

Of course, McCabe tried this with Ferencvaros. Unfortunately he put Terry Robinson in charge.
He's a very wealthy man and an excellent mathematician.
But there's still the qualifying rounds to get through before you hit the real big money in the CL.
I guess the progression in the Monsieur Clutch Cup will probably give a fair return on his investment.
 
All gone a bit off topic, I wasn't suggesting the moneyball approach just that I liked their idea of having 35% of all minutes played by academy players.

It's a laudable target and I know I prefer watching us and feel I have a bigger connection with the team when there are more local lads in it. Oh for a team with Dane, Wardy, Bradders and Harry in it who you know will die for the club rather than some of the wasters we have now !
 

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