Nowthen Prince this is your 3rd JTW after 2 Summer Windows.

[raul]

I have a vague recollection of a poster who would never miss the chance to talk down to people and explain ever so patiently how everything at SUFC 2013 was different to all previous experiences and how he knew, he really did, the Prince and the Clough dynasty were beyond reproach and he would always be there whenever anyone questioned them.

Wonder where he is now?

 

[wizadry]

I thought when the Prince bought his share for £1 McCabe wrote all debts off and made the club debt free and the Prince was contractually obliged to put a certain amount of money into the club each season to be used for the signing of players and wages as far as Iam aware McCabe has no such obligation to put any money in for signings etc

From reading reports on here from time to time we all know The Prince has put a shitload of cash in already for a League One club so why is a poster coming on here wanting him to spend even more dollops of money when the co-owner isn't going to put something in himself?

All this McCabe doesn't have to put anything in can't seriously last forever. How long does the Prince have to keep pumping his money in before this supposable contractual situation finishes? I find it a strange one.

 

[spongebobblade]

Think we are along the right lines when we say McCabe wrote off the debts and gave the prince half the club in return for investment. What we have no idea of is the level of investment agreed and whether that has been reached yet. Only the powers that be know that one. All we can do is speculate but let's hope it's sorted and bloody quick

 

[Sean Thornton]

I thought when the Prince bought his share for £1 McCabe wrote all debts off and made the club debt free and the Prince was contractually obliged to put a certain amount of money into the club each season to be used for the signing of players and wages as far as Iam aware McCabe has no such obligation to put any money in for signings etc

He paid £10million for his shareholding in Blades Leisure Ltd originally and I believe he's put at least another £2million up to September 2015. Cash.
Seeing as we are still losing money it's hardly surprising he's funding us on a monthly basis.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Think we are along the right lines when we say McCabe wrote off the debts and gave the prince half the club in return for investment. What we have no idea of is the level of investment agreed and whether that has been reached yet. Only the powers that be know that one. All we can do is speculate but let's hope it's sorted and bloody quick

McCabe was owed approx £37 million, matched the Princes £10 million shares and wrote the balance off into a share premium account.
Maybe HRH has to match that £27 million over a period of time? Who knows?

 

[Grappler]

I thought the deal was that the real investment comes when we get back into the Championship? I agree that we should spend now, McCabe will not get any money back for a League One club, it is in his interest to get us up and get someone interested then (the Chinese?)

 

[diplomat]

I've heard 9 out and 9 in is the plan for this window. Give or take one either way. But is was off a man in a pub so please don't quote me if you're a lazy journalist

 

[diplomat]

Thinking about my own post. That doesn't solve our bloated squad.

Man in pub out!

 

[Hunkerby]

Before putting more cash in the Prince ought to satisfy himself that our scouting system has improved.
Vardy - 1 million
Mahrez - 400k
Lightning can strike strike twice after all?
Not luck - a scouting and player acquisition methodology that can power drive a medium sized club to the top of the Premiership.
Pay attention you lot in the Boardroom!

 

[Blade56]

One word......... Stalemate!

50/50 was always a bad idea. Would be better with just McCabe in charge

 

[Barney]

McCabe was owed approx £37 million, matched the Princes £10 million shares and wrote the balance off into a share premium account.
Maybe HRH has to match that £27 million over a period of time? Who knows?

How can he write off the remaining balance of a sum he was owed?

 

[Hunkerby]

The Prince would not have got involved just to be restrained by KM's funds and spirit exhaustion.

The Prince probably thought that 20 to 30 million would be enough to see the club into the Premiership so he could make a tidy profit on the sale of his 50% share.
The investment has been squandered and he is now a desperate man.

 

[Woodwardfan]

From reading reports on here from time to time we all know The Prince has put a shitload of cash in already for a League One club so why is a poster coming on here wanting him to spend even more dollops of money when the co-owner isn't going to put something in himself?

All this McCabe doesn't have to put anything in can't seriously last forever. How long does the Prince have to keep pumping his money in before this supposable contractual situation finishes? I find it a strange one.

I can only explain my own guess/ logic about the ownership of the club now and in the coming years. No detail has been published but logic says that KM gave away 50% of the club at a mutually agreed value ( £20m?, bear in mind no freehold anywhere) after writing off any debt owed to him or his companies.

In return the prince legally committed to invest an agreed amount of cash within an agreed length of time. Once that amount has been invested then the prince becomes the unfetttered 50% owner. The amount of investment by the prince would have to cover 50% of annual losses also.

What happens when the owners are equal 50/50 shareholders can only be guessed.

My guess is that only the prince will continue to invest capital cash in return for a quid-pro-quo assignment of shares each year, thereby increasing the prince's holdings on a sliding scale with KMs' reducing until one has 100% and the other zero.. The share of annual losses/profits will be in proportion with an annually changing proportion of shareholdings.

It may be that KM sees himself continuing as 50% owner as the only possible way to recover some of the £50m plus he has thrown away on the club over the years, but if he does then he will obviously have to invest in equal measures with the prince and somehow I doubt he will at his age unless his sons are up for it, being his heirs.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I have a vague recollection of a poster who would never miss the chance to talk down to people and explain ever so patiently how everything at SUFC 2013 was different to all previous experiences and how he knew, he really did, the Prince and the Clough dynasty were beyond reproach and he would always be there whenever anyone questioned them.

Wonder where he is now?

I think you mean me and it is true my view at that time was that the prince had joined the club to take it to the Premiership and that he made an ambitious appointment of Clough with all his entourage and unprecedented authority and power for a manager. I supported the appointment and the approach which was entirely appropriate and bold at the time and the great pity for us all is that Clough blew it. Therefore the club and the prince are in recovery mode and two years behind plan.

I never said the parties were"beyond reproach" but as you use the term now I can see no reason whatsoever to suggest either Clough or the prince are/were ever anything other than "beyond reproach", it's just that the plan failed and Adkins has been appointed to recover the situation.

Adkins has not been given all the power that Clough had because Phipps seems to think Clough abused it in transfer choices. However Adkins will have more or less everything he wants re authority, autonomy, staff including scout, budget, transfer committee and procedure I'm sure.

I hope I'm not "talking down" to any reader, never intend that. I just write what I think and learn when I'm proved wrong, as we all do; that's my reason for contributing -to learn from posters like you Raul. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to cover this topic in particular.

 

[blade789]

I genuinely think some people on here think that its Monopoly money!!

Are people aware of how much money KM has lost through this club!? put yourself in his shoes?

We spent a fortune for this division last JTW and we still didn't get up! Anyone who thinks we are going to spend big this window will end up disappointed.

We need two / three loans in and I think we will be able to mount a challenge.

All this talk about more money needs to be spent, against Bradford I would imagine that our first 11 was probably in the top 3 highest paid sides in the division. Its not realistic to just keep adding to this bill.

 

[Woodwardfan]

I genuinely think some people on here think that its Monopoly money!!

Are people aware of how much money KM has lost through this club!? put yourself in his shoes?

We spent a fortune for this division last JTW and we still didn't get up! Anyone who thinks we are going to spend big this window will end up disappointed.

We need two / three loans in and I think we will be able to mount a challenge.

All this talk about more money needs to be spent, against Bradford I would imagine that our first 11 was probably in the top 3 highest paid sides in the division. Its not realistic to just keep adding to this bill.

Adkins said pre-season we were around 6th in the division in budget terms ( at the Meet the Manager night). It came as a surprise to all present and was the first inkling to me that the prince did not have a bottomless pocket of money to throw at us. In the previous two years he had put in plenty to be fair.

Fully agree blade789, a conservative estimate of past McCabe losses would be £50m which could only be recovered if he is still part owner when we return to the Premier League and the stock value rises.

 

[blade789]

Adkins said pre-season we were around 6th in the division in budget terms ( at the Meet the Manager night). It came as a surprise to all present and was the first inkling to me that the prince did not have a bottomless pocket of money to throw at us. In the previous two years he had put in plenty to be fair.

6th in terms of transfer budget maybe but this is because the previous managers recruitment, at some point an owners have to tighten their belts, Having said all that we have brought in 3 players from the championship and one from the prem. I can assure you not a single side in this division would be able to afford the amount of money we are paying Hammond!

Apart from Wigan I cant see another side being anywhere near us in terms of the total amount paid to our match day 18.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I can only explain my own guess/ logic about the ownership of the club now and in the coming years. No detail has been published but logic says that KM gave away 50% of the club at a mutually agreed value ( £20m?, bear in mind no freehold anywhere) after writing off any debt owed to him or his companies.

In return the prince legally committed to invest an agreed amount of cash within an agreed length of time. Once that amount has been invested then the prince becomes the unfetttered 50% owner. The amount of investment by the prince would have to cover 50% of annual losses also.

What happens when the owners are equal 50/50 shareholders can only be guessed.

My guess is that only the prince will continue to invest capital cash in return for a quid-pro-quo assignment of shares each year, thereby increasing the prince's holdings on a sliding scale with KMs' reducing until one has 100% and the other zero.. The share of annual losses/profits will be in proportion with an annually changing proportion of shareholdings.

It may be that KM sees himself continuing as 50% owner as the only possible way to recover some of the £50m plus he has thrown away on the club over the years, but if he does then he will obviously have to invest in equal measures with the prince and somehow I doubt he will at his age unless his sons are up for it, being his heirs.

They are 50% shareholders each already. In the shares that matter, the ones that give a vote and attract dividends, it's been 50/50 since day one, irrespective of any other ideas bandied about or meandering scenarios put forward. The Princes follow up investment has been in non voting shares. There is no quid pro quo assignment each year and won't be unless he buys McCabe out. There's no need to "guess" when it's all clear in the documents logged at Companies House.

The initial share capital from the Prince of ten million has been swallowed up by trading losses. I don't believe McCabe has put 50% of those losses in. That's not how the deal was set up according to the reports at the time.

 

[Sean Thornton]

How can he write off the remaining balance of a sum he was owed?

You claimed to understand the accounts. It's in a share premium account as I said.

 

[Wapping Blade]

You claimed to understand the accounts. It's in a share premium account as I said.

It's semantics, technically he didn't write off the debt, he converted it into shares. These shares are unlikely to be worth anything unless a Prem miracle happens or we get bought out for bazillions so practically the debt has been written off.

 

[Worksop II]

We spent a fortune for this division last JTW and we still didn't get up!

He needs to stop fookin abart then

 

[Sean Thornton]

It's semantics, technically he didn't write off the debt, he converted it into shares. These shares are unlikely to be worth anything unless a Prem miracle happens or we get bought out for bazillions so practically the debt has been written off.

Effectively he's paid thirty seven million for ten million quids worth of shares matching the Princes cash investment. As you say, pretty worthless and even a PL return is unlikely to value the club at £74 million so he recovers his money, especially without a ground.

 

[Blade58]

I've heard 9 out and 9 in is the plan for this window. Give or take one either way. But is was off a man in a pub so please don't quote me if you're a lazy journalist

I think McCabe said a dollop out, maybe then a couple in provided they meet the clubs wage structure

The worry for me of course being which ones out?

 

[Hunkerby]

Effectively he's paid thirty seven million for ten million quids worth of shares matching the Princes cash investment. As you say, pretty worthless and even a PL return is unlikely to value the club at £74 million so he recovers his money, especially without a ground.

More than 100 million - probably 150 million

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-richest-clubs-how-6293748

 

[Sean Thornton]

More than 100 million - probably 150 million

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-leagues-richest-clubs-how-6293748

All with a ground though I think. Sunderland are in at less than £150 million for example.

We still have to get there as well and that'll cost even more money. How much did Chansiri pay for the Pigs, with the Theatre of Rust in the deal?

 

[Harry's Game]

Players will have to go out before any decent players arrive, good players will want paying decent wages and we are on the edge of the FFP limit.

 

[blade789]

He needs to stop fookin abart then

Who?

 

[blade too long]

I think the plus side is that we have no Jewel in the crown, no stand out player that could be sold in January or beyond.

Next season could be the ONLY season that we've been in this dreadful league that we start the season without the gut punch of selling our best player. Almost forgotten what that feels like.

As for this January, as per previous messages from the manager and board, we'll only bring people in depending on who we manage to ship out.

we didnt sell our best player this season , hes just returned from injury

 

[Sean Thornton]

Players will have to go out before any decent players arrive, good players will want paying decent wages and we are on the edge of the FFP limit.

Which is why the hope is we move a good few out and buy a couple of class players, because that's the only way we can keep within the SCMP rules.

 

[Woodwardfan]

It's semantics, technically he didn't write off the debt, he converted it into shares. These shares are unlikely to be worth anything unless a Prem miracle happens or we get bought out for bazillions so practically the debt has been written off.

I think it's best for everyone to talk in terms more understood by everybody rather than use accountancy terms which can be meaningless to some posters.