Man Utd Fans Reaction To The Draw

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After tonight's Champions League cock-up, Man U will be all guns blazing in this cup tie.
 
OllyBlade said:
Define 'proper'.
Click to expand...

I'm gobsmacked I have to explain it to anyone but there you go.

  • They are up there with some of the biggest clubs in the world. Barca, Real, Bayern etc etc.
  • They are self sustaining and could exist of their own monies (had the Glaziers not bum raped the club they would be doing that as we speak)
  • They are up there with Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs as clubs with great history and tradition. Note I didn't say Chelsea or Man City, or a host of other clubs
  • They have known not winning things for many years, in fact they were perennial underachievers for a long time Pre cheats league.
  • They have a massive local fan base (like the other clubs mentioned above)
  • They have produced great youth talent and not purely existed off buying (Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles, Beckham, Butt etc etc) Although this is less so admittedly these days.
In my mind they are a pucker club. You don't have to like them but they are part of the furniture of football like Liverpool, Forest, Arsenal, Spurs and even Villa. I don't include teams like Chelsea because they are utterly plastic and everything that is wrong in football points to teams like them.
 
Bladesway said:
I'm gobsmacked I have to explain it to anyone but there you go.

  • They are up there with some of the biggest clubs in the world. Barca, Real, Bayern etc etc.
  • They are self sustaining and could exist of their own monies (had the Glaziers not bum raped the club they would be doing that as we speak)
  • They are up there with Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs as clubs with great history and tradition. Note I didn't say Chelsea or Man City, or a host of other clubs
  • They have known not winning things for many years, in fact they were perennial underachievers for a long time Pre cheats league.
  • They have a massive local fan base (like the other clubs mentioned above)
  • They have produced great youth talent and not purely existed off buying (Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles, Beckham, Butt etc etc) Although this is less so admittedly these days.
In my mind they are a pucker club. You don't have to like them but they are part of the furniture of football like Liverpool, Forest, Arsenal, Spurs and even Villa. I don't include teams like Chelsea because they are utterly plastic and everything that is wrong in football points to teams like them.
Click to expand...
City aren't plastic. yet. althought their proper fans are getting worried. they used to be better than united until martin edwards did an Abramovich in the 70's.. everyone i know in Manc supports city, they've always had a huge fanbase even when they were in the third division. chelsea are plastic though. we were bigger than them until Abro turned up
 
Bladesway said:
I'm gobsmacked I have to explain it to anyone but there you go.

  • They are up there with some of the biggest clubs in the world. Barca, Real, Bayern etc etc.
  • They are self sustaining and could exist of their own monies (had the Glaziers not bum raped the club they would be doing that as we speak)
  • They are up there with Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs as clubs with great history and tradition. Note I didn't say Chelsea or Man City, or a host of other clubs
  • They have known not winning things for many years, in fact they were perennial underachievers for a long time Pre cheats league.
  • They have a massive local fan base (like the other clubs mentioned above)
  • They have produced great youth talent and not purely existed off buying (Scholes, Giggs, Nevilles, Beckham, Butt etc etc) Although this is less so admittedly these days.
In my mind they are a pucker club. You don't have to like them but they are part of the furniture of football like Liverpool, Forest, Arsenal, Spurs and even Villa. I don't include teams like Chelsea because they are utterly plastic and everything that is wrong in football points to teams like them.
Click to expand...

In my mind the 'furniture of football' isn't defined by teams that win lots or which are the 'biggest in the world'. Financial sustainability is also a rather odd things to judge 'proper clubs' on.

I know for a fact Chelsea also have a massive local fan base and drew crowds as big of those as the other clubs you mentioned pre-Abramovich. In my mind you have been brainwashed by self-indulgent Liverpool and Man U fans who think that the only route to 'tradition' or 'history' is winning lots of things and imposing an arbitrary narrative on everybody else. It's history written by the victors, who continue to struggle to exclude others from 'their' story. I'm gobsmacked to have to explain this to anyone that follows Sheffield fucking United but there you go :)

But if that's the game you want to believe in then hey, go for it.

P.S. Arsenal only owe their place in the whole football league thanks to being surprisingly chosen despite only finishing fifth in the league below (Spurs had finished higher and weren't selected), after their chairman Henry Norris had moved the club around at his whim. He likely bribed Arsenal's way into the whole league.
 
1danewhitehouse said:
How was it not a sending off for our penalty? Blatant professional foul denying a clear goalscoring opportunity
Click to expand...
Was that the rule in those days? I'm sure it didn't used to be an automatic red.
 



OllyBlade said:
In my mind the 'furniture of football' isn't defined by teams that win lots or which are the 'biggest in the world'. Financial sustainability is also a rather odd things to judge 'proper clubs' on.

I know for a fact Chelsea also have a massive local fan base and drew crowds as big of those as the other clubs you mentioned pre-Abramovich. In my mind you have been brainwashed by self-indulgent Liverpool and Man U fans who think that the only route to 'tradition' or 'history' is winning lots of things and imposing an arbitrary narrative on everybody else. It's history written by the victors, who continue to struggle to exclude others from 'their' story. I'm gobsmacked to have to explain this to anyone that follows Sheffield fucking United but there you go :)

But if that's the game you want to believe in then hey, go for it.

P.S. Arsenal only owe their place in the whole football league thanks to being surprisingly chosen despite only finishing fifth in the league below (Spurs had finished higher and weren't selected), after their chairman Henry Norris had moved the club around at his whim. He likely bribed Arsenal's way into the whole league.
Click to expand...
Arsenal would have got into the league anyway at some point though. As Spurs did. So they don't owe their place in the league to that event, just the time of entry.

Man U and Liverpool were well supported clubs who took advantage of the abolition of the maximum wage to supplement their youth policies and to ensure their young players didn't go elsewhere. Although they'd both won trophies they weren't massive until Shankly and Busby ran them. It was a boom time for football, similar to what we've seen recently, and these clubs used the wealth from their decent crowds to great effect, winning trophies and increasing their fan base as TV began to show football.

Since the abolition of the maximum wage, football and success has been about money. That's why the pigs still go on about attendances (they're mainly from Barnsley which is still trapped in the sixties) - because if you had big crowds it tended to mean you would, or at least could, be successful.

So the majority of Man U and Liverpool's trophies were bought, just as most of Chelsea's were; it's just that the money came from different sources. But as you say, they created the myth.
 
BushBlade said:
Was that the rule in those days? I'm sure it didn't used to be an automatic red.
Click to expand...


Hmmmm….. Not too sure. Definite red in today’s game though. Unless you’re Gabriel Heinze doing it to Luton Shelton at Old Trafford.
 
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