The board leave the plank out, but the fans push them off of it.

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The_Green_Man

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Sorry about the imaginative, long winded title :D

I don't know how many of us managed to watch a bit of Soccer AM on Saturday morning, in fact I don't know if that many watch it these days but anyway.

Theo Pathitis of Dragons Den made an appearance on the couch at the weekend. I would imagine almost everybody will be familiar with his links to football but on the off chance that anybody doesn't know, he owned Millwall for a while as well as holding various roles within The Football League committee.

Anyway he actually came across really well when discussing modern day football as a whole and as they went on to discuss sacking managers he made a very valid point and the reason I am placing this on this section of the forum is that I feel it is pretty relevant to Sheffield United Football Club, both in recent years as well as in the immediate future should results not go our way.

In a nutshell Theo basically rightly said that the fans play a huge part in managers leaving a club and I think our fans can be held accountable for this as well. You only have to look at our last gaffer Mr Clough as a prime example of this really and I am as guilty as the next man in hindsight.

Mr Clough in all farness wasn't terrible on paper. He got us to a couple of cup semi finals and he had us knocking around in the play-offs but these days we expect a great deal more. As fans our expectancies these have shifted, what with the added pressures of playing in a league that we don't want to be in and feel that we don't belong in, coupled with the fact that our neighbours are in the league above us. We aren't a happy bunch are we and lets be fair, we won't be happy until we achieve promotion and the casualties along the way sometimes appear irrelevant due to the frustration.

You only have to look at the constant movement with the finger of blame as well as a prime example of the above. There is a constant shift between blaming the board and then the management depending on the stage of the season or circumstances. During a transfer window or towards the end of a window we always have a tendency to wave the finger of blame towards the boardroom for a failure to support the manager financially, however as soon as we hit a rocky patch and the results stop flowing we promptly wave the finger of blame towards the guy in the hot seat again.

Again going back to Mr Clough. In the second half of the season we became frustrated with how things appeared to be panning out, I too am guilty of this. As this stagnant patch went on this elevated more and more and game by game more calls rang out for the manager to leave the club as promotion appeared to drift away into the distance. The truth of the matter is that on paper we were there or there about and in touching distance but as the results weren't exactly convincing on a weekly basis, we felt the need to oust the manager and bring somebody else in to rescue the mission. The board went on to back Clough into the play-offs and we flopped in the end all be it very close and as a result the board had no other option but to act as social media went crackers with shouts for the manager to leave the club.

The whole social media thing doesn't help what so ever either in my humble opinion. Allowing the fans an easily obtainable direct channel to vent at the board can surely only hinder more than it helps the situation? After all, a few dozen numpties (who probably don't even go to watch the team) shouting Clough out at Jim 10 seconds after every full time whistle and every day after hardly represents the voice of the whole fan base does it however this is all that the board see .

We are now heading rapidly towards a very similar situation with Nigel Adkins despite the circumstances being a little different. Week by week frustrations are growing and rightly so based on the performances that we are seeing on the pitch however I really think that we need to take a step back and have a good look at the bigger picture before piling it on and making a rash decision.

I personally think it is hot in the kitchen however fuelling the stove is only going to make it a great deal warmer. I think we need to sit back and ride out this bumpy spell until the next window and give the chance a decent shot at putting it right because if the truth be said, Adkins is still very much quite early into his United career. He has proven credentials of getting it right in the end.

A good xmas spell and a couple of decent signings in January could well put it all back on track. Of course we could panic and be rash and oust the manager AGAIN however what guarantees does this bring us? One thing is for certain, we are extremely unlikely to replace him with anyone with a track record that even comes half as close on paper.

Theo was very much correct. The Millwall fans twisted his arm when it came to booting managers out of the door and likewise for Sheffield United Fans. Current times are indeed shit and it is highly frustrating however we need to bite the bullet and ride the storm out for once because it is evident that previous rash decisions haven't solved the situation. I also strongly believe that we are approaching an extremely important crossroads in our immediate future as well as being a nearly team for so long simply isn't good enough.

UTB!
 



I think people who hire and fire managers based on what fans think or what morons on Twitter think are doing a very poor job indeed.

If the fans had any influence we would not be selling our best players all the time. "The fans demand it" is a fig leaf for the likes of McCabe and Paphitas.

And I remember when Paphitas fired Mark McGhee. They had lost 1-0 at home playing 1 man up front and the fans were protesting because McGhee was clueless. Paphitas brought Dennis Wise in. He won their next game (2-0 against us). he took them to the cup final later that season for the first time ever. If the fans made that decision, it was a damn good one.
 
I've been very scathing of the players this season for well-established reasons around attitude and application.

But my support for Nigel Adkins remains as consistant as when he took charge. You simply cannot walk into a club with about 37 players on the books and find the magic formula which will give us the strongest side in every situation in a matter of months. Especially when the majority of these players are simply not good enough.
Adkins needs the time necessary to establish his own identity on the squad, get rid of the deadwood and use whatever means at his disposal to build and strengthen.
I've said it before, if Adkins was at any other club in this league, his team would most likely be either pissing it or mounting a strong challenge. This club however, comes with a lot more baggage, some of which is the volatility of its fanbase, for which we've all been guilty of from time to time I suspect.
He will get it right, but this season is going to be a transitional one and we need to brace ourselves for it. The reward will come.
 
He said he'd give the whole squad a chance... OK in theory but crap in practice as 90% of them didn't deserve it. He knows that now... so sort it out in January and let's go for it like Bournemouth, Brentford and even the Pigs have done in recent seasons. Not another transitional season ... can't stand another one of those..
In this era of instant gratification - can we have the reward now.. or at least by May?
 
Every manager should have at least two full seasons imo, Unless it looks like they are going to get us relegated
 
Who, where, when were all these fans giving grief to the board about getting rid of Cloughie?

This website represents a section of Blades fans and 65% of those that voted at the end of last season were in favour of giving Cloughie one more year.

Cannot remember clearly but I am sure most calls to Football Heaven were of the same opinion.

Maybe the board were concerned about season ticket sales. When Cloughie departed I would imagine most people had made their minds up about renewing or purchasing a season ticket.

Not disagreeing totally with the OP I think the Cloughie situation was down to other factors which we as stakeholders in the club, as usual are kept in the dark about.

One day a book will be produced 'The Hidden Secrets of Sheffield United'. What happened to Butler, why was Collins overlooked, the truth about Cloughie's dismissal, the fax machine mystery and did James Beattie really have flu.

It'll make more money than Jamie Murphy.
 
Who, where, when were all these fans giving grief to the board about getting rid of Cloughie?

This website represents a section of Blades fans and 65% of those that voted at the end of last season were in favour of giving Cloughie one more year.

Cannot remember clearly but I am sure most calls to Football Heaven were of the same opinion.

You might be underestimating the power of social media, the ones stamping their feet and shouting for change tend to be much louder and distort the view, you can see that on here, with our very own Jean Hatchett demanding Adkins dismissal at every verse end to the point of tedium.

Having said that, in Clough's case, there must have been something else at play, almost as if the club knew what it wanted to do, baulked at the cost, found its reason (do we know if Clough was paid off?) or did it eventually simply make a panic decision?
 
The Pirates tied our hands behind our back,
The sea didn't make a sound,
When halfway down the plank that rap band started singing 'jump around'
 
I didn't want Clough sacked at the time, but in hindsight, am actually kind of glad he's gone (despite everything). Many of his signings were poor, unnecessary, were square pegs/round holes, or were short term fixes. I actually think keeping him here for another season or two, and continuing to throw money at him, would have been an absolute disaster (even more of a disaster!).
 
There is some validity in the comments re: fans but don't forget that Clough had been allowed to do his retained list and the videos etc. I think in his case it was nothing more than a falling out over policy & performance.
As green as Jim is to this, I'd trust him with a bit more savvyness on social media - as well as the nobheads he also gets plenty of sycophants as well to balance it all out.
 
Who, where, when were all these fans giving grief to the board about getting rid of Cloughie?

This website represents a section of Blades fans and 65% of those that voted at the end of last season were in favour of giving Cloughie one more year.

Cannot remember clearly but I am sure most calls to Football Heaven were of the same opinion.

Maybe the board were concerned about season ticket sales. When Cloughie departed I would imagine most people had made their minds up about renewing or purchasing a season ticket.

Not disagreeing totally with the OP I think the Cloughie situation was down to other factors which we as stakeholders in the club, as usual are kept in the dark about.

One day a book will be produced 'The Hidden Secrets of Sheffield United'. What happened to Butler, why was Collins overlooked, the truth about Cloughie's dismissal, the fax machine mystery and did James Beattie really have flu.

It'll make more money than Jamie Murphy.

How many fans tell the board how pleased they are?

Not Blade specific but the haters are often the loudest and can easily set the agenda as theirs are the voices you hear.

Like the booing at games.

19000 there. 40, or whatever, boo. That sets the agenda.
 
Green Man, I apologise in advance for my pedantry but why the 'of '? - it is terrible English* and useless in the sentence.

'The board leave the plank out, but the fans push them off of it.'

*is it Cockney, is it American or is it just Andy Townsend?
 
Who, where, when were all these fans giving grief to the board about getting rid of Cloughie?

This website represents a section of Blades fans and 65% of those that voted at the end of last season were in favour of giving Cloughie one more year.

Cannot remember clearly but I am sure most calls to Football Heaven were of the same opinion.

Maybe the board were concerned about season ticket sales. When Cloughie departed I would imagine most people had made their minds up about renewing or purchasing a season ticket.

Not disagreeing totally with the OP I think the Cloughie situation was down to other factors which we as stakeholders in the club, as usual are kept in the dark about.

One day a book will be produced 'The Hidden Secrets of Sheffield United'. What happened to Butler, why was Collins overlooked, the truth about Cloughie's dismissal, the fax machine mystery and did James Beattie really have flu.

It'll make more money than Jamie Murphy.
Good point. There was no big push from fans to sack Clough. I think the consensus was to give him until Christmas.

As it happens, given Adkins availability and track record, I think we did the right thing at that time. But it's not feeling such a smart decision right now. Hopefully history will prove otherwise.

But back to your point, the board were under no significant pressure from fans to sack Clough.

UTB
 
How many fans tell the board how pleased they are?

Not Blade specific but the haters are often the loudest and can easily set the agenda as theirs are the voices you hear.

Like the booing at games.

19000 there. 40, or whatever, boo. That sets the agenda.
How many fans are actually pleased at the minute though?

I know the NHS is under pressure, but there must be some beds available in the institutions for them. :)

UTB
 



Think they should play this when the lads run out...

 
Has anyone actually called for Adkind head?

Thought not
 
I think people who hire and fire managers based on what fans think or what morons on Twitter think are doing a very poor job indeed.

But the fans are the consumers so of course their opinions on the manager should be taken into account by the board. You would expect the CEO of Sainsbury's to take heed if a significant proportion of their customers want something changed (Note I'm not advocating sacking a manager because of a small number of idiots on Twitter).
 
Green Man, I apologise in advance for my pedantry but why the 'of '? - it is terrible English* and useless in the sentence.

'The board leave the plank out, but the fans push them off of it.'


*is it Cockney, is it American or is it just Andy Townsend?
'Off of is often used in place of the preposition off in contexts such as she picked it up off of the floor (compared with she picked it up off the floor). Although off of is recorded from the 16th century (it was used by Shakespeare) and is logically parallel to the standard out of, it is regarded as incorrect in standard modern English.'

Off of

When off is a preposition, the phrase off of could almost always be shortened to just off. The unnecessary of is common in informal speech and writing, though, and using it is never a serious usage error. But writers who value concision can avoid it.

I got this off of the internet. :)
 
But the fans are the consumers so of course their opinions on the manager should be taken into account by the board. You would expect the CEO of Sainsbury's to take heed if a significant proportion of their customers want something changed (Note I'm not advocating sacking a manager because of a small number of idiots on Twitter).

Well, there is such a thing as the wisdom of crowds, but there was no significant proportion of fans wanting rid of Clough.
 
Is it an American internet source Mosbo?

The word 'from' would make some sense in place of 'of' - but 'of' is entirely redundant and I'll stick my neck out, wrong.
 
'Off of is often used in place of the preposition off in contexts such as she picked it up off of the floor (compared with she picked it up off the floor). Although off of is recorded from the 16th century (it was used by Shakespeare) and is logically parallel to the standard out of, it is regarded as incorrect in standard modern English.'

Off of

When off is a preposition, the phrase off of could almost always be shortened to just off. The unnecessary of is common in informal speech and writing, though, and using it is never a serious usage error. But writers who value concision can avoid it.

I got this off of the internet. :)

Fuck of
 
Is it an American internet source Mosbo?

The word 'from' would make some sense in place of 'of' - but 'of' is entirely redundant and I'll stick my neck out, wrong.

I absolutely agree Vorpal, it does seem to be an Americanism and one that drives me daft as well. However I couldn't pass up the opportunity to take the contrarian viewpoint and disagree with you! :confused:
 
There just is no right or wrong in this case, off of and off are both fine. If you don't like one or the other it's a matter of taste, not a matter of fact.

There's an eternal "debate" between prescriptivists (who want to tell us how to use language and descriptivists (who want to tell us how language is used).

The best comment I read on this was a prescriptivist is just a descriptivist with an ego.

There is no Holy Book of Usage.

The current bete noire of the prescriptivists is could of, which I like for all sorts of reasons.
 
To use the 'Sainsburys' anology - if Mcabe equivalent there had led to a drop in sales/performance as drastically as we have over the past few years Mr Mcabe would have been out on his arse years ago! Why does football accept failiure as the norm so easily?

Mcabe has had a much easier ride off us 'booing moaning cunts' than he would have had at most other clubs who would have hounded him out. Probably rightly so - £5 million a year loss for this fucking shit - REALLY??????
 

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