Latest from Kevin McCabe

[BushBlade]

Thanks. I understand the above, but the things I've referred to were nearly all before the Prince and Phipps appeared on the scene. I'm making the point that McCabe appeared to write off the debt owed to allow the Prince investment, when really he didn't and hasn't lost millions as suggested.

Sorry. I have flu and I don't seem to understand any of the points made on this thread today so I'm leaving it at that.
I'm not getting into arguments with people about something I'm not really that interested in.

UTB

 

[Sean Thornton]

Thanks. I understand the above, but the things I've referred to were nearly all before the Prince and Phipps appeared on the scene. I'm making the point that McCabe appeared to write off the debt owed to allow the Prince investment, when really he didn't and hasn't lost millions as suggested.

It's written off. Unless you believe he'll get ££37 million for his shares in a company that doesn't own the ground that is.

Plus like every shareholder in SU Ltd, his millions of shares are worth much less than he paid for them.

 

[Sean Thornton]

So in essence Mr Mc is receiving 10% interest on his loans which he might only get 3% or possibly 5% from a bank - any comments?

It depends on the rate he's borrowed it at in the first place, something people tend to overlook. I'm not suggesting he isn't making a profit but the comparison should be what the borrowing cost to him is rather than what he could receive for it in the Post Office.

 

[Sean Thornton]

The wage bill is contained within the accounts of SUFC Ltd, not to be confused with SU Ltd, not got them with me or would let you know the figure

Wages salaries NI and pension costs amounted to £8.4 million. £8.3 million the previous year.
There were 98 football related employees and 56 non football.

 

[WF10BLADE]

It was a diabolical appointment, we had a golden / diamond crusted opportunity to bounce back to the Prem & therefore create a lasting legacy - parachute payment.

BR's appointment was just plain & simply wrong on every conceivable level.

The ramifications of that period are stil being experienced to this very day.

We went from being 3rd favourites for promotion to 6th on the day it was announced an absolutely diabolical appointment for which I've never forgiven Mcabe it has subsequently ruined our club.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I've just looked at the accounts from June 2014 (http://www.sufc.co.uk/documents/su-ltd-statutory-accounts-30-june-2014-fully-signed135-2104652.pdf)

I'm neither a supporter or hater of McCabe, however having looked at the accounts, I'm not willing to praise him when it was claimed he wrote off £30 odd million for the Prince to join the board.

* Page 12: Freehold and Buildings valued at £23.6 million
* Page 16: SUFC owed around £25 million in loans to Scarborough Companies (McCabe).
* Page 16: We were paying 10% interest on a £17 million loan from one of McCabes companies, and paid £3.3 million in interest over 2 years!

My point. Has McCabe really lost that much money on SUFC? If the loan had been since we were relegated from the Premiership, he's actually covered the £30 million or so he's supposedly written off. His loans are covered by the Freehold and Buildings and the interest he's been charging makes up the difference.

Unfortunately there is nothing about the wage bill, which I would love to see. The 2015 accounts will be interesting reading.

When he transferred the freeholds he took with it equivalent debt. It's all in there and was explained to shareholders prior to it happening. He hasn't just taken the ground to repay his loans.

 

[Sean Thornton]

We went from being 3rd favourites for promotion to 6th on the day it was announced an absolutely diabolical appointment for which I've never forgiven Mcabe it has subsequently ruined our club.

Above all, Robsons appointment and Turrys involvement in it is why we are where we are now. Disastrous appointments trusting the pair of them and something Kevin McCabe has to hold his hand up for.

 

[judge]

Bryan robson killed this club

 

[AlienBlade]

But yet Huddersfield and Leeds managed to keep onto Rhodes and Beckford until they were promoted. Strange that.

could that be becuase both Rhodes and Beckford agreed with the clubs that they would stay on conditions they got their move... rather than not wanting to wait?

 

[WF10BLADE]

could that be becuase both Rhodes and Beckford agreed with the clubs that they would stay on conditions they got their move... rather than not wanting to wait?

Either way they did it and we didn't and they are in the championship and we are not.

One mans fault

 

[Houston_Blade]

.

You're welcome.

I would suggest most people don't believe he's robbing the club blind but if you're going to comment on his finances I'd prefer some kind of supporting evidence, just as I do from those who claim he has profited from the club, at the club's expense.

Otherwise, it just becomes 'yes he has' 'no he hasn't'. At which stage I'm afraid I become flippant.

Exhibit a - The Financial Statements
Exhibit b - His falling net worth

 

[Deaneandagana]

When he transferred the freeholds he took with it equivalent debt. It's all in there and was explained to shareholders prior to it happening. He hasn't just taken the ground to repay his loans.

But he's getting double bubble, debt matched with freehold & interest on debt in top

 

[Sean Thornton]

But he's getting double bubble, debt matched with freehold & interest on debt in top

No. There are different debts. Within different companies. Look atvthe notes and the comparatives for the year before to see how the debt restructuring has worked.
He's certainly not getting interest on the £27 million he's spunked into a share premium account.

 

[Deaneandagana]

It depends on the rate he's borrowed it at in the first place, something people tend to overlook. I'm not suggesting he isn't making a profit but the comparison should be what the borrowing cost to him is rather than what he could receive for it in the Post Office.

I take your point about his respective cost of capital - fair comment.

My contention is that as our main shareholder & benefactor should his loans not be accruing interest at a more realistic % rate in order to assist - 5% would save circa £800k pa?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Look at note 26 in the BL accounts. All debts to KMc and SU were paid off during the year and as I said, the monies owed to SU have been written off to shares. Unless there have been new loans, there is no more interest chargeable.

 

[Sean Thornton]

I take your point about his respective cost of capital - fair comment.

My contention is that as our main shareholder & benefactor should his loans not be accruing interest at a more realistic % rate in order to assist - 5% would save circa £800k pa?

The 10% rate is payable by SU Ltd. Not BL or the football club any longer. The BL accounts don't show the interest rate paid but on £37m it amounted to under £300k so it wasn't at 10%.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Just looked at SUs accounts. Those debts were cleared as well. McCabe had £14k in interest it would seem on £621k loan - now repaid by SUL. Can't tell you what rate it was as there are no details of what period it covered but the year before when the £621k was outstanding he took £7068.
The rest was paid to a Scarborough company, again, cleared.

In any event, no interest appears to have been charged at 10% as per that note, in 2014 or the previous year.

 

[Sean Thornton]

Anyway, once I find my anorak, I'm off home for the evening to stroke my stamp collection.

 

[Deaneandagana]

Just looked at SUs accounts. Those debts were cleared as well. McCabe had £14k in interest it would seem on £621k loan - now repaid by SUL. Can't tell you what rate it was as there are no details of what period it covered but the year before when the £621k was outstanding he took £7068.
The rest was paid to a Scarborough company, again, cleared.

In any event, no interest appears to have been charged at 10% as per that note, in 2014 or the previous year.

Note 18 in SU Ltd doesn't read like that?

 

[Sean Thornton]

Note 18 in SU Ltd doesn't read like that?

Apologies, I looked at the SUFC notes rather than SU. The point still stands though, no interest payable by SUFC or Blades Leisure and certainly not at 10%, unless there are new loans.

 

[Hunkerby]

We went from being 3rd favourites for promotion to 6th on the day it was announced an absolutely diabolical appointment for which I've never forgiven Mcabe it has subsequently ruined our club.

Some clubs manage to get away with having a bad manager.
Some even get promotions with them (e.g Middlesbrough twice with Robson)
That should tell you all you need to know about how unimportant the manager is in comparison to the way in which the club is run.

 

[Hunkerby]

Bryan robson killed this club

This club is still alive and will be in another 200 years.

 

[WF10BLADE]

Some clubs manage to get away with having a bad manager.
Some even get promotions with them (e.g Middlesbrough twice with Robson)
That should tell you all you need to know about how unimportant the manager is in comparison to the way in which the club is run.

Disagree, Robson had 3 or 4 times the budget anyone else had to promote Middlesbrough and then some in the late 90s.

We had unluckily just been relegated and had the cheating storm.

Mcabe could have used all that to harness the club to right the wrong by making a shrewd appointment.

I was devastated when we appointed him and recall very few were happy at the time.

A decent appointment with Beattie on board would have galvanised us to right the wrong and promote us.

Since Robson we've lurched From disaster to disaster and I've never heard one apology.

 

[Hunkerby]

If a big budget was a guarantee of success we would have been promoted out of this league a long time ago.

 

[BushBlade]

Some clubs manage to get away with having a bad manager.
Some even get promotions with them (e.g Middlesbrough twice with Robson)
That should tell you all you need to know about how unimportant the manager is in comparison to the way in which the club is run.

I think it's a combination of both. The worse the club is run, the better the manager needed for success. A well run club can get away with an average manager and still do OK.

 

[Roygbiv]

I personally think the day we appointed Robson was the day all our shit started. I don't think relegation was necessarily a huge disaster. Loads of clubs bounce back up in a season or two but that appointment made sure we wouldn't be getting up first time around and then the season after McCabe panicked, cut the wage bill and began to sell every good player that happened to be on our books. People think United fans are angry about the whole Tevez stuff. I'd say more fans are angry about the ridiculous appointment of Robson. I still can't quite believe it happened

 

[Taramasalata]

I personally think the day we appointed Robson was the day all our shit started. I don't think relegation was necessarily a huge disaster. Loads of clubs bounce back up in a season or two but that appointment made sure we wouldn't be getting up first time around and then the season after McCabe panicked, cut the wage bill and began to sell every good player that happened to be on our books. People think United fans are angry about the whole Tevez stuff. I'd say more fans are angry about the ridiculous appointment of Robson. I still can't quite believe it happened

Angry, fucking fuming is the right answer...still rankles now.

the delectable Mr McCabe got a letter the day after offering advice, sack him now, and suggesting this one action would sentence the blades to years of penury and pestilence and time in the wilderness.

He, the little scamp, replied with a lovely letter saying I'm entitled to my opinion, oooh and i used to live in Yarm.... many happy times in the 70s playing badminton.

Up the Blades Taramasalata, keep the faith and we'll be back in the premiership next year, wait and see!!!!!!!!

numpty

 

[1danewhitehouse]

And there is one amongst the ranks on this forum who think the benefit of hindsight was needed to see what a crap appointment Robson was.


Incidentally, there have been many other factors that have contributed to our diabolical decade but if you could only pick one, Robson steals the show. The only horse McCabe ever REALLY backed. Could he have got it more wrong?

Having done that, his speech after appointing Wilson about "the fans don't know what's needed in a manager...." was utterly breathtaking.

 

[WF10BLADE]

I personally think the day we appointed Robson was the day all our shit started. I don't think relegation was necessarily a huge disaster. Loads of clubs bounce back up in a season or two but that appointment made sure we wouldn't be getting up first time around and then the season after McCabe panicked, cut the wage bill and began to sell every good player that happened to be on our books. People think United fans are angry about the whole Tevez stuff. I'd say more fans are angry about the ridiculous appointment of Robson. I still can't quite believe it happened

Yes a monumental fuck up.

Disgraceful

 

[derryblade]

I personally think the day we appointed Robson was the day all our shit started. I don't think relegation was necessarily a huge disaster. Loads of clubs bounce back up in a season or two but that appointment made sure we wouldn't be getting up first time around and then the season after McCabe panicked, cut the wage bill and began to sell every good player that happened to be on our books. People think United fans are angry about the whole Tevez stuff. I'd say more fans are angry about the ridiculous appointment of Robson. I still can't quite believe it happened

January transfer window in the Premiership when NW bought for the future rather than the here and now IMO