Dear board and manager..

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Tezza1889

Tezza1889

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2014
Messages
6,115
Reaction score
9,155
Location
S36
Dear board and manager, I know where it all went wrong, I know this is a multiple answer thread, but there's a couple of pivotal decisions that were made or not made deciding our path in world football....

Please feel free to join in, and while I know some will stretch thier grey matter on bladey bladenesss, I like to keep things a bit more recent.....

"We really should have picked Connor coady up,he loved us,we loved him, it was a perfect match, like turning down the prom queen Jim, he was just what we needed" even the fans knew we could make a million on him easy, and we know fuck all...

Get stuck in lads n lasses...

Who'll be the first to say m..............a
 



Thanks for being in awe of Nigel Clough and letting him set us back two years.
 
Christ you could point to a million failures in the omnishambles that has been SUFC, probably since Hulse broke his leg at Stamford Bridge.

Failure in the January transfer window in the Prem
Appointment of Robson
Mismanagement of the Premiership windfall
Mismanagement of the West Ham funds
Selling both Kyles
Giving Blackwell the preseason and 3 games before sacking him
Every decision taken the rest of that season
Failure to plan correctly for the Ched outcome
Sacking Wilson with 3 games to go
Appointing Weir
Failing to replace adequately Coady, Maguire and Brayford

However please let us look forward, give credit for the appointment of a quality, positive, proven manager, and get behind the team.
 
Blade for Sale said:
Christ you could point to a million failures in the omnishambles that has been SUFC, probably since Hulse broke his leg at Stamford Bridge.

Failure in the January transfer window in the Prem
Appointment of Robson
Mismanagement of the Premiership windfall
Mismanagement of the West Ham funds
Selling both Kyles
Giving Blackwell the preseason and 3 games before sacking him
Every decision taken the rest of that season
Failure to plan correctly for the Ched outcome
Sacking Wilson with 3 games to go
Appointing Weir
Failing to replace adequately Coady, Maguire and Brayford

However please let us look forward, give credit for the appointment of a quality, positive, proven manager, and get behind the team.
Click to expand...

You missed selling Mick Jones :)
 
SwissBlade said:
Why? So far he's shown nothing to back this up....
Click to expand...
To be fair swizzler, Houdini would struggle to make things right straight away after the mess Clough left us in. He deserves a chance as he has proved that he can cut it at this level on a couple of occasions already, we owe him perhaps two seasons to get the right players in, it pains me to say that but I think that's what it's going to take to get us to the required standard.

Or, we could just buy some great players in January and have done with it. Having said that, it might be too late by then anyway.
 
wizadry said:
To be fair swizzler, Houdini would struggle to make things right straight away after the mess Clough left us in. He deserves a chance as he has proved that he can cut it at this level on a couple of occasions already, we owe him perhaps two seasons to get the right players in, it pains me to say that but I think that's what it's going to take to get us to the required standard.

Or, we could just buy some great players in January and have done with it. Having said that, it might be too late by then anyway.
Click to expand...
I've not said that. I've just asked what Adkins has done to merit the gratitude. I keep hearing all this about what Adkins did at Southampton and how great he is but we haven't seen any improvement to make us stand back and say that he's the man to take us forward.

I hear lots of blame being thrown at Clough but Adkins isnt pulling trees up just yet and it's worrying that were set to give him more money in January....

Personally I'd rather we trim the squad and used kids for the rest of this season and let him push on with new players next season
 
Blade for Sale said:
Christ you could point to a million failures in the omnishambles that has been SUFC, probably since Hulse broke his leg at Stamford Bridge.

Failure in the January transfer window in the Prem
Appointment of Robson
Mismanagement of the Premiership windfall
Mismanagement of the West Ham funds
Selling both Kyles
Giving Blackwell the preseason and 3 games before sacking him
Every decision taken the rest of that season
Failure to plan correctly for the Ched outcome
Sacking Wilson with 3 games to go
Appointing Weir
Failing to replace adequately Coady, Maguire and Brayford

However please let us look forward, give credit for the appointment of a quality, positive, proven manager, and get behind the team.
Click to expand...

It started to go wrong with the sale of Jimmy Dunne to Arsenal. In early 1932 Arsenal offered United £10,000 for Dunne but were turned down. However in September 1933, United hit financial trouble and they accepted a reduced fee of £8,250. We followed it up selling Jock Dodds. By which time we were a selling club. As Woodward said there is only one lesson to learn - stop selling our best players.
 



SwissBlade said:
I don't mind disagreeing, just interested in why you think this?
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head - some of this overlaps but there are differences of emphasis:
  • promoted three times
  • attracts good players
  • knows the Leagues
  • connections
  • knows tactics - we've switched a number of times from a system that wasn't working to one that was
  • positive atmosphere - by far the best way to get the most out of most people
  • clear in what he wants
  • clear in what we've got
  • positive but unsentimental I'd add
  • professional
  • experienced
  • honest hardworking professional :-)
  • doesn't overcomplicate
  • high standards - Che being dropped
  • confident
  • ambitious
etc etc

The obvious question is: Well why aren't we better positioned?

I think the answer, in part, is we're using Clough's squad to play Adkins game. Bergen Blade's posts are a really clear analysis of the details of this.

Also I think the League overall is harder than it used to be. I think what Collins said about teams no longer coming and roll over is true, with the possible exception of Fleetwood. It's a long hard slog. One benefit of the Fleetwood game - or easy games in general - is you can basically have a rest. This should be welcomed.

Throughout football teams have learned to make the most of their limited resources, either by parking the bus, or playing without fear, or tactical awareness. I think that's happened in Division 3 as elsewhere.

If Adkins doesn't get us out of this League then I think we'll be here for all eternity.
 
Cyprus Blade said:
It started to go wrong with the sale of Jimmy Dunne to Arsenal. In early 1932 Arsenal offered United £10,000 for Dunne but were turned down. However in September 1933, United hit financial trouble and they accepted a reduced fee of £8,250. We followed it up selling Jock Dodds. By which time we were a selling club. As Woodward said there is only one lesson to learn - stop selling our best players.
Click to expand...

Did this have a bearing on the 1936 Cup Final?

Was Jimmy Dunne Man of the Match?
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Off the top of my head - some of this overlaps but there are differences of emphasis:
  • promoted three times
  • attracts good players
  • knows the Leagues
  • connections
  • knows tactics - we've switched a number of times from a system that wasn't working to one that was
  • positive atmosphere - by far the best way to get the most out of most people
  • clear in what he wants
  • clear in what we've got
  • positive but unsentimental I'd add
  • professional
  • experienced
  • honest hardworking professional :)
  • doesn't overcomplicate
  • high standards - Che being dropped
  • confident
  • ambitious
etc etc

The obvious question is: Well why aren't we better positioned?

I think the answer, in part, is we're using Clough's squad to play Adkins game. Bergen Blade's posts are a really clear analysis of the details of this.

Also I think the League overall is harder than it used to be. I think what Collins said about teams no longer coming and roll over is true, with the possible exception of Fleetwood. It's a long hard slog. One benefit of the Fleetwood game - or easy games in general - is you can basically have a rest. This should be welcomed.

Throughout football teams have learned to make the most of their limited resources, either by parking the bus, or playing without fear, or tactical awareness. I think that's happened in Division 3 as elsewhere.

If Adkins doesn't get us out of this League then I think we'll be here for all eternity.
Click to expand...
That's a very rose tinted view and a lot of what you've listed in the bullets is either from the past or theoretical.

I also like the way that you've quickly excused him by stating things like he's using cloughs players To play the Adkins way. Surely this is a failing if it's not getting results? Surely he needs to play to their strengths...

I hope Adkins is the man, but as I've said before, I've seen no improvement from Clough so far. It's interesting that you're using a very subjective slant to back up your statements.

There have been small signs but Adkins had made as many errors so far in his tenure.

To me this suggests that his experience elsewhere ISN'T suited to a struggling side like ourselves and he's not walked into this with his eyes open...
 
SwissBlade said:
That's a very rose tinted view and a lot of what you've listed in the bullets is either from the past or theoretical.

I also like the way that you've quickly excused him by stating things like he's using cloughs players To play the Adkins way. Surely this is a failing if it's not getting results? Surely he needs to play to their strengths...

I hope Adkins is the man, but as I've said before, I've seen no improvement from Clough so far. It's interesting that you're using a very subjective slant to back up your statements.

There have been small signs but Adkins had made as many errors so far in his tenure.

To me this suggests that his experience elsewhere ISN'T suited to a struggling side like ourselves and he's not walked into this with his eyes open...
Click to expand...

Out of interest Swiss, I know you were talking about sending your ST back when Clough got sacked so you're obviously a big fan. Why do you hold him in such high esteem? I didn't particularly warm to him due to his prickly / petty manner but he clearly had some high points.
 
SwissBlade said:
That's a very rose tinted view and a lot of what you've listed in the bullets is either from the past or theoretical.
Click to expand...

To respond to just this first line:
  • it's not rose-tinted (or any more subjective than any other opinion) - there's good evidence for all of it
  • if it wasn't from the past, it'd have to from the present or the future
  • it's not theoretical - it's clear from interviews, games etc
I can't really add much. The differences and improvements are overwhelmingly obvious to me. You see it differently.
 
SwissBlade said:
I don't mind disagreeing, just interested in why you think this?
Click to expand...

If I may add my take as I agree with Foulkes.....

I don't rate most of our team and I think his positive approach is keeping us in he top six. He's lost one of our better players and has been missing one or two other key players through injury. He's doing fine, needs better tools.
 
Firstly, I don't think we would have got Coady. As I've said in another thread, his agent would have advised him to wait to see if a championship club came in for him and only join us if one didn't.

Secondly, NA has the best CV of the managers we could have attracted. It's early days yet and although he wears glasses, he's not Harry Potter. Or even Harry Bassett, who got off to a very inauspicious start. If Bassett had taken us over and got us relegated in modern times, he'd have probably been sacked, like Adams.

It took Simon Grayson, who won more promotions from this agricultural league than anyone I can think of, two full seasons to get Preston promoted. In what way is it realistic to expect NA to do it quicker?

NA has made the decision that the way we played under Clough was not the way to get automatic promotion, that it would lead to too many draws and another play off place. I also suspect his brief when he joined was to play 'more entertaining football'. So he opted for a more traditional 442.
He brought in two strikers who are most suited to playing in a partnership.
Then, things started to go wrong. We lost Murphy, couldn't get deals for Burn and Hammond over the line and haven't been able to field a settled side due to injuries. I think he also overestimated our central midfielders. I don't think we have two central midfielders who can play in a 442. Simple as that. I also think that without Murphy we don't have two wide midfielders who could play in a 442 either.

Clough was building a side to play in a very specific way and signed players accordingly. As with most lower league players, they are not 'rounded' players. They're good at some things but shit at others. The strengths they brought to Clough's teams aren't being used as much and the weaknesses are being highlighted more.

NA has now accepted this and has looked at playing 433 (or variations of), sacrificing Sammon in the process. Once Hammond is match fit, and possibly Edgar, he may revert back to 442.
Before people use this as a stick to beat NA, it's worth considering we don't know what he thought he could bring in before the window closed. I don't think he believed the four signings he made would be the total.

So we're now in a situation where the CHs lack pace and mobility so tend to sit too deep, a midfield that can't play 442, and a strike force that wants to play 442, and Che, who no one is sure what his best position actually is but we know he's a threat who scores goals.

All NA can do is move some out and bring some in, and it doesn't look like that's going to happen until the JTW. He just needs to find a way to grind out results until then so we're still there or thereabouts.
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
To respond to just this first line:
  • it's not rose-tinted (or any more subjective than any other opinion) - there's good evidence for all of it
  • if it wasn't from the past, it'd have to from the present or the future
  • it's not theoretical - it's clear from interviews, games etc
I can't really add much. The differences and improvements are overwhelmingly obvious to me. You see it differently.
Click to expand...

The point about the past is that it's not evidence from United...

It's extremely rose tinted and subjective as you declare random words like 'positive' and disciplining Che as your reasons, yet this is not something which we've seen a direct result of on the pitch.

If you'd focussed on one or two actual, solid points (like the tactical one you mentioned) I'd be more inclined to see it as evidence based rather than just a wildly blade tinted perspective then it'd perhaps give your post more credibility.

My personal view though is that Adkins (and Phipps) spends more time talking about what we should do or should've done rather than what we actually did that worked.

I really can't wait for the evidence to be shown on the pitch. A good manager will get the best out of what he has, again, so far Adkins isn't doing this....
 
William Henry Foulkes said:
Did this have a bearing on the 1936 Cup Final?

Was Jimmy Dunne Man of the Match?
Click to expand...

Dunne was top goalscorer at United for four consecutive seasons between 1929 and 1933. He was sold at the beginning of the 1933-34 season. We were however relegated at the end of that season after being in the first division since 1893. We didn't play in the first division again until 1946 (though we were promoted in 1939 in the last season before the war). 1933-34 season saw our record league defeat registered (beaten 10-3 by Middlesboro).

At Arsenal Dunne scored 9 goals in 23 starts in 1933-34 but later lost his place in the side when they bought Ted Drake. Dunne was dubbed "the most expensive reserve player in English football" in the press, although his Arsenal colleagues clearly recognised his talents, with Cliff Bastin remarking he was "one of the best five centre forwards I had ever seen". He played no part in the 1936 cup final. In the 1936 final "lucky" Arsenal were heavy favorites. Jock Dodds hit the woodwork for us. Had it gone in things might have turned out very different. Dodds scored 130 goals in just 203 appearances for us. We sold him to Blackpool in March 1939 for what was the second highest transfer fee recorded at the time (£10,000).
 
Rodley said:
Out of interest Swiss, I know you were talking about sending your ST back when Clough got sacked so you're obviously a big fan. Why do you hold him in such high esteem? I didn't particularly warm to him due to his prickly / petty manner but he clearly had some high points.
Click to expand...

It wasn't the sacking of Clough so much as what it represented. Although I did find that he spoke very directly to media, he didn't hide. The prickly nature was almost a positive especially after games.

However, my key point was that the manager wasn't the issue. We clearly had a formula in the cups that worked and that was the huge positive. We knew there was something there to work with.

I thought tactically we set up not to lose, but it needed several changes and he knew it. Striker and centre backs, plus midfielders

The big issue with the sacking was that we weren't going to improve things by sacking Clough. Not because he was a better manager than Adkins (for example), but he needed the time (like Adkins does) to address the problems.

Clough, like Adkins had inherited a squad, some players fitted in, some didn't. Clough bought players, again some worked, some didn't. Any new manager coming in will need to assess the squad for a few weeks (or in Adkins case, 5 months) and to make plans for the changes.

It's also the approach of smoke and mirrors from Phipps and his 'blame culture' for the Clough era which is apparent now, when last season it was all about how they were all accountable... Now it's all cloughs fault....
 
While people are busy tugging Coady off, they forget to mention that the player himself did not want to stop to our division on a permanent basis.

I believe he told this very fact to some of our fans who asked him outright.
 
SwissBlade said:
It wasn't the sacking of Clough so much as what it represented. Although I did find that he spoke very directly to media, he didn't hide. The prickly nature was almost a positive especially after games.

However, my key point was that the manager wasn't the issue. We clearly had a formula in the cups that worked and that was the huge positive. We knew there was something there to work with.

I thought tactically we set up not to lose, but it needed several changes and he knew it. Striker and centre backs, plus midfielders

The big issue with the sacking was that we weren't going to improve things by sacking Clough. Not because he was a better manager than Adkins (for example), but he needed the time (like Adkins does) to address the problems.

Clough, like Adkins had inherited a squad, some players fitted in, some didn't. Clough bought players, again some worked, some didn't. Any new manager coming in will need to assess the squad for a few weeks (or in Adkins case, 5 months) and to make plans for the changes.

It's also the approach of smoke and mirrors from Phipps and his 'blame culture' for the Clough era which is apparent now, when last season it was all about how they were all accountable... Now it's all cloughs fault....
Click to expand...

Fair enough I guess it's all personal opinion. For me Clough was the best backed SUFC manager since Robson, but his recruitment was very poor.

We had a playoff squad, NC then managed to sign 25+ players and end up with a playoff squad again.
 
Rodley said:
Fair enough I guess it's all personal opinion. For me Clough was the best backed SUFC manager since Robson, but his recruitment was very poor.

We had a playoff squad, NC then managed to sign 25+ players and end up with a playoff squad again.
Click to expand...

I think we actually had a squad of relegation candidates when Clough joined according to our form and league position. He turned us into a play off team, albeit with some bizarre signings along the way. It was knee-jerk to sack Wilson without a contingency plan and then to give Clough less than 2 seasons was also madness.

Adkins on paper is a great appointment (in fact you may call it the "epiphany" of a good appointment?!), the form will show whether he can translate this to performances from the team on the pitch. I still think we sacked Clough without a clear plan of replacing him and I'm just glad NA took the role, if it was Parkinson and we were in this position I think people would have rightly been worried.
 
SwissBlade said:
It's also the approach of smoke and mirrors from Phipps and his 'blame culture' for the Clough era which is apparent now, when last season it was all about how they were all accountable... Now it's all cloughs fault....
Click to expand...

Hey, Swiss - you have heard about that planning application that Phippsy's submitted to have Clough Road renamed? ;)
 



Rodley said:
Fair enough I guess it's all personal opinion. For me Clough was the best backed SUFC manager since Robson, but his recruitment was very poor.

We had a playoff squad, NC then managed to sign 25+ players and end up with a playoff squad again.
Click to expand...
Before Clough came in we didn't have a play off squad. Weir signed some crap as well and many of players left from the Wilson era were shite. However there was the bones of a side there.

Clough signed a lot of players, many of them were too similar to what we had or players that were injured.

He failed to get a striker, but from what I understand when O'Grady came in on loan and when we signed Done, Freeman and Brayford it was slaps on the back for the people in the transfer committee as these were the targets we'd worked so long and hard to bring in.

The thing Clough was extremely aware of as he mentioned it around January when Kennedy was getting injured again and in sept when we sold Harry was the need to replace him. But as the defence wasn't the biggest problem (because we kept an organised and rigid formation under Clough) his focus was strikers...

I agree we've got a heavy squad but a lot of the players we have are good enough.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

wadblade
As I See It
2
Replies
40
Views
3K
TJ blade
T
The Fox
Top flight players
2
Replies
37
Views
2K
s20Blade
s20Blade
Shadota
Our club is inherently broken, but current on-pitch issues are distracting from the bigger picture.
4 5 6
Replies
166
Views
8K
Maidenhead
M
KMC-1889
Director of Football / Technical Board - why do we need one?
Replies
28
Views
1K
Loco Blade
Loco Blade
W
Tanganga
2
Replies
47
Views
5K
Whitby-Blade
Whitby-Blade

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

All advertisments are hidden for logged in members, why not log in/register?

Back
Top Bottom