I think its time to stop...

[wizadry]

Unfairly and/or disproportionately gets criticism.

Plenty of players had below par games on Satdi, but we lost bc of McEveley?

The scapegoating also kicks in when one players errors are focussed on over others'.

This is an honest question mate. Has anyone on here started a thread on any other player regarding our failures on the football pitch including your good self? If not then why not if there are other players causing more ricks than McEveley?

 

[judge]

Ah, the Morgan myth. I saw him outmuscled many times. I remember the following without a second thought:

Andy Carroll
Shefqi Kuqi
Kevin Kyle
Darius Henderson
Jamie Mackie.

Think thats because they are all bigger and stronger with more muscles than him

 

[ShefRedandWhite]

McEverlys becoming a bit of a scapegoat now isnt he. People need to open their eyes, he's not as bad as people make out, but he really REALLY needs to stop dropping clangers. The first 45 mins on Saturday he was decent. Won most in the air and looked comfortable on the ball and in the tackle, if he did that for 90 mins, we'd be laughing. It was just the bollocks he drops he can't be allowing. If he can cut these, quite frankly silly mistakes out of his game, he'll do us fine in rotation with Harris when he's back.
... but will our captain be a rotation player?

 

[Pinchy]

Think thats because they are all bigger and stronger with more muscles than him

Yes you're right (did I really say that?). Some of our fans, though, would have you think he was the hardest man ever to play the game. Dave McKay would have sorted him out without blinking.

 

[finlaytheblade]

Think thats because they are all bigger and stronger with more muscles than him

Leon Clarke is bigger than mck and probably heavier as well. He used his ring craft honed from playing professional football for a long time.
It's about time we put this mck bating to bed or is he the latest to pick up the mantle of scapegoat monty could give him some good advice on dealing with it .I THINK it's shameful the way some fans bate the occasional player it doesn't help him or the team to get a result ,the bating makes it even harder.

 

[wizadry]

McEverlys becoming a bit of a scapegoat now isnt he. People need to open their eyes, he's not as bad as people make out, but he really REALLY needs to stop dropping clangers. The first 45 mins on Saturday he was decent. Won most in the air and looked comfortable on the ball and in the tackle, if he did that for 90 mins, we'd be laughing. It was just the bollocks he drops he can't be allowing. If he can cut these, quite frankly silly mistakes out of his game, he'll do us fine in rotation with Harris when he's back.
... but will our captain be a rotation player?

I'm sorry mate but the ones that need to open their eyes are the ones who think McEveley is better than what he is.

And your question at the bottom should never have to be asked, an error that if Clough had made i'd have wondered why, just as i wonder why Adkins has.

 

[WhiteHawk]

As for McEveleleleley, I don't rate him at all at left back, I rate him higher at centre half.

Really? I think he's absolutely awful at CB and OK at LB.

That said though, he was at fault for all 3 goals on Saturday. First one he shouldn't have tried to run the ball out (some might say he was fouled, but even Nigel Adkins didn't think it was a foul), second he was running away from the attacking player, 3rd one he was just shit.

I don't mind McEv at LB but he had a shocker on Saturday. Once Harris comes back though, I don't see how he can possibly get in the team as there's absolutely no way I'd pick him over Collins at CB.

 

[Slim Man]

Unfairly and/or disproportionately gets criticism.

Plenty of players had below par games on Satdi, but we lost bc of McEveley?

The scapegoating also kicks in when one players errors are focussed on over others'.

The other players errors didn't directly lead to goals, struggling to understand why that's hard to understand. If you ask me the second is McEveleys fault too, no way should he be letting a right back get a shot off in his area of the pitch. He'd tried it a few times already.

They knew our weak point was down the left and that's where they attacked. Fair play to them, they did their homework. Shame our captain is also our worst player.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

The other players errors didn't directly lead to goals, struggling to understand why that's hard to understand. If you ask me the second is McEveleys fault too, no way should he be letting a right back get a shot off in his area of the pitch. He'd tried it a few times already.

They knew our weak point was down the left and that's where they attacked. Fair play to them, they did their homework. Shame our captain is also our worst player.

Now McEveley was at fault for all three goals?

This post is its own refutation.

 

[Slim Man]

Now McEveley was at fault for all three goals?

This post is its own refutation.

Didn't say that, but I'd say he can take a share of blame for all 3. It seems that you're trying to shift him of any blame AT ALL which is crazy in its own right. You must not be watching the same games.

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Didn't say that, but I'd say he can take a share of blame for all 3. It seems that you're trying to shift him of any blame AT ALL which is crazy in its own right. You must not be watching the same games.

I can see him not playing tommorow . " Picked Up a Knock In Training * .

UTB

 

[zablade]

If the criticism came from one bad performance then both the manager and player could justifiably be put out by the criticism...

...However Mcevely has been poor more or less the entire time he has been here, I rate him no higher than League two level, he may be a popular guy around the club and works hard in training, cuts no ice if he makes mistakes during games and usually the same ones over and over again.

 

[Bladesway]

Good idea but who should we direct our angst at then?
C'mon who's fault is it were not at the top of the table with a 100% record and a +40 goal difference?

Clough?

 

[Bladesway]

I'd imagine the flak will stop if/when the performances improve. (Bit like at Swindon, by all accounts.)

Just checked the ratings for the Bury match. Jay's scoring 3.34 up to now: folks aren't criticising because they hate him personally, there's a reason for it.

If you look at Adkins entire philosophy its built on positivity and giving everyone the best possible environment to be the best they can be. So basically the absolute opposite of what some are trying to do. How about we follow the managers example and support rather than chucking the toys out everytime someone drops a cod? I'll grant you if we lose 3 or 4 on the spin then there may be reason for disquiet but right now, a win tomorrow puts us third. Hardly a mile off the pace is it? Or have we become so knee jerk that every defeat is followed by an inquest of epic proportions?

 

[HillmortonBlade]

If you look at Adkins entire philosophy its built on positivity and giving everyone the best possible environment to be the best they can be. So basically the absolute opposite of what some are trying to do. How about we follow the managers example and support rather than chucking the toys out everytime someone drops a cod? I'll grant you if we lose 3 or 4 on the spin then there may be reason for disquiet but right now, a win tomorrow puts us third. Hardly a mile off the pace is it? Or have we become so knee jerk that every defeat is followed by an inquest of epic proportions?

Way of the world, I am afraid. Whilst many make valid and incisive observations, the lazy name calling and knee jerking suits others better. I heard the fan of a another football team from neat Barnsley grunting on the radio. He seemed to be suggesting that as his team had taken on a few new players, that had not gelled in the first six matches it was clearly time for the manager to go. Or he might have been saying something about fish. But either way, the fashion is spend spend, I want success now.

 

[GRUMPY BLADE]

If you look at Adkins entire philosophy its built on positivity and giving everyone the best possible environment to be the best they can be. So basically the absolute opposite of what some are trying to do. How about we follow the managers example and support rather than chucking the toys out everytime someone drops a cod? I'll grant you if we lose 3 or 4 on the spin then there may be reason for disquiet but right now, a win tomorrow puts us third. Hardly a mile off the pace is it? Or have we become so knee jerk that every defeat is followed by an inquest of epic proportions?

Losing two out of every six is miles off the pace, OK we can get 90 points if we win the games left (66%) but can the clappers see that happening?

Three draws sees us on 84 and that's play offs.

Points lost in August and September hurt as much as those lost in March and April.

 

[coaxingstar71]

A couple of things I don't understand....

1. By not criticising J-Mac's displays, one must be a J-Mac lover?
2. By simply trying to support the team, particularly after a disappointing defeat, one is a happy clapper?

I can only conclude, therefore, that I am happy to be both.

 

[Kenilworth]

A couple of things I don't understand....

1. By not criticising J-Mac's displays, one must be a J-Mac lover?
2. By simply trying to support the team, particularly after a disappointing defeat, one is a happy clapper?

I can only conclude, therefore, that I am happy to be both.

All of which means that you have fallen into the clap trap

 

[bartman]

I don't understand the term scapegoat. When was the last time a good player, who performed consistently was made one? Isn't a scapegoat just a player that gets a lot of criticism from a large proportion of the fans?

Quinn immediately springs to mind and in more recent times Basham and Flynn

 

[Lord Bos of Eckington.]

Way of the world, I am afraid. Whilst many make valid and incisive observations, the lazy name calling and knee jerking suits others better. I heard the fan of a another football team from neat Barnsley grunting on the radio. He seemed to be suggesting that as his team had taken on a few new players, that had not gelled in the first six matches it was clearly time for the manager to go. Or he might have been saying something about fish. But either way, the fashion is spend spend, I want success now.

As usual good post . I think the lazy name calling , knee jerk reactions , is not down to hate or malice ( although it can appear like that ) . I do feel we go into melt down , negativity , doom , due to being nervous , frustrated , and deep down resigned , that we may not make promotion , even though we are only in September.

Some fans do go way over the top , but as you say , its the way of the world. So much is riding on us getting promotion , the pressure will get worst , before it gets better . Maybe not for the manager and players , but certainly for us fans.

We are not in a position that we want success now , due to the fact we have been in this league 5 seasons . The other end of the scale , is we are getting to the point , we expect nothing , due to being let down so many times .

This creates the atmosphere we are getting , but IMO its better to shout on the forum , than at the match.

We do have to give certain players some lee way , as if not , i can see us falling to pieces. A wet damp night tonight , hopefully will show saturday was a mere blip.

UTB

 

[Punk Blade]

Not necessarily, I gave him 3 based on what I've read on here. Maybe wrong I know, but didn't go so that's all I have to go on.

You know you don't have to submit ratings?

 

[Fiery Blade]

There may be some truth in this but plenty of players had poor games on Saturday. This is ignored and McEveley is singled out.

Confirmation bias and scapegoating imhbco.

Whilst I agree that one or two other players did have bad games on Saturday I believe the issue is that McEverley is consistantly dropping howlers and very rarely has a good game - his ball distribution is appalling and he seems to get outmuscled by forwards week in week out !
Perhaps the damning factor is that whilst Brayford and Harris are out injured there are few options - Alcock has shown he is not good enough, Keiron Wallace whilst doing an OK job is not the answer and Kennedy is both injury prone and not a full back.
On Saturday Bury had detected his weakness and it was telling that all their dangerous attacks came down their right flank.

Whilst I applaud your stance on McEverley, it's not scapegoating or bias - he really isn't good enough and with Mr Adkins making him skipper he will be playing every week - that is the major frustration !

Unfortunately, we have a clutch of players that are just not good enough including McEverley, Alcock, K Wallace, McFadzean Collins to name but five !

 

[Slim Man]

I can see him not playing tommorow . " Picked Up a Knock In Training * .

UTB

Here's hoping. I've lost all faith in him.
Must admit Collins has turned it round for me though, he's not good enough as a starter week in week out for a promotion side but he is good enough to have on the bench, he's reliable and his 'bombscare' moments are few and far between nowadays.

 

[Slim Man]

Whilst I agree that one or two other players did have bad games on Saturday I believe the issue is that McEverley is consistantly dropping howlers and very rarely has a good game - his ball distribution is appalling and he seems to get outmuscled by forwards week in week out !
Perhaps the damning factor is that whilst Brayford and Harris are out injured there are few options - Alcock has shown he is not good enough, Keiron Wallace whilst doing an OK job is not the answer and Kennedy is both injury prone and not a full back.
On Saturday Bury had detected his weakness and it was telling that all their dangerous attacks came down their right flank.

Whilst I applaud your stance on McEverley, it's not scapegoating or bias - he really isn't good enough and with Mr Adkins making him skipper he will be playing every week - that is the major frustration !

Unfortunately, we have a clutch of players that are just not good enough including McEverley, Alcock, K Wallace, McFadzean Collins to name but five !

'McEveley is a scapegoat' is my favourite myth since Newton got hit by an apple.

 

[AlienBlade]

I'd imagine the flak will stop if/when the performances improve. (Bit like at Swindon, by all accounts.)

Just checked the ratings for the Bury match. Jay's scoring 3.34 up to now: folks aren't criticising because they hate him personally, there's a reason for it.

not really... if people on here see him as a scape goat.... then they are going to give him a low score.... he could have scored a hatrick... I could still mark him as 1 out of 10....what does that prove...


it shows even in Deadbats report....

"Reed 6/10 – He played one great ball which put Sammon in and another that nearly found Freeman first half. A few other sideways passes and interceptions apart, I thought he was a non factor. He lost his man constantly from a defensive point of view and is passing for the most part in general play (above apart) is really sloppy. He gave it away three times in a spell of about 30 seconds in the first half. He gets shrugged off the ball too easily and is careless when he does have it. Not sure he has moved on at all in the last 18 months and I have not seen him have a good game since Southampton nearly 9 months ago. Don’t see this great prospect that some does. Like Basham what is his main attribute? It is not his passing as he gives it away constantly and he can’t tackle. Never even looked remotely like scoring a goal either which is pretty poor for a midfielder. Indeed the fact neither are any kind of goal scoring threat is a worry.

"McEveley 3/10 – Dismal. First half he did ok for a spell and was going forward alright but then made a few errors in passing and control and after the break he lost the ball claiming he was fouled (one of few ref got right) and they broke and scored. After this he made mistake after mistakes with poor control, passing and overplay. At the end he got badly outmuscled after losing the ball and it was in the net again. A poor player that should not be even near our side if we are serious about promotion. He is an accident waiting to happen and needs to be moved on."


so it states Mceverley had a good first half however after some mistakes in control and passing he lost it in the second half (I dont recall that many "oh my god moments" outside of the 1st and second goal tbh) the replay also showed that the ref DIDNT get it right as its clearly he had his leg taken.

we move on to Reed... where it states he played ONE great ball which put Sammon in, and one that NEARLY found freeman (so didnt and thus could be contrued as a bad pass or wasted pass) he gave it away 3 times in a 30 second spell... he lost his man from a defensive point his general play was sloppy... he gets shrugged off the ball too easily and is careless when he does have it... he cant pass and cant tackle... never remotely looked liked scoring... pretty poor for a midfield....

so from just those two summaries... why does McEverley get 3 out of 10 and Reed get a fairly respectable 6?

that to me is proof of the "scape goat effect"

as Reed is mentioned to have all the flaws that is listed for McEverley.... (no one notes some of the good passes McEverley made to the likes of Woolford Sharp and Sammon... and yes there were some)

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

I don't see how this can possibly be the case.

McEveley has been criticised for not releasing the ball in the run up to the first goal. He was fouled - and the referee didn't give it - but somehow he should have anticipated this, instead of doing what he is often good at which is playing a good forward pass.

This "reasoning" bears no scrutiny whatsoever.

There *is* a reason for the attacks on McEveley but that reason is not based (solely) on his performances.

The official records will show that he wasn't fouled else a free kick would have been awarded.

 

[crucialkneeligaman]

All players make mistakes, the problem with Jay is that he makes unnecessary ones which can cost us. The same charge could have been levelled at Collo & Harry when he was at the club. Primarily caused, as has been pointed out before on this forum, by overplaying, and thinking that they are some kind of world class performers. Cut these out and his performances ought to improve.

 

[wizadry]

A couple of things I don't understand....

1. By not criticising J-Mac's displays, one must be a J-Mac lover?.

That was tongue in cheek mate, nothing else but still nice to know you care so much

 

[super_pig]

There may be some truth in this but plenty of players had poor games on Saturday. This is ignored and McEveley is singled out.
Confirmation bias and scapegoating imhbco.

he cost us two possibly three goals.. what more does he need to do to inherit Monty's shirt. put the ball in his own goal three times??
he just needs to stop overplaying. i think he is aware that his recent form has not been good and is trying to show the fans how good he is.. that is what is getting him into trouble. it all started at the Spurs game when he gave away the soft pen
i'll trot out my usual comment on this. stop playing crap and people will stop complaining. there wouldn't be a scapegoat at all if they all played well in the same 90 minutes .. god forbid

 

[Hodgyman]

The biggest problem that I have with Jay is not that he had a bad game last Saturday but has consistently let the opposition in through bad mistakes, going at least as far back as the hand ball against Spurs. He makes at least 3 bad errors per game, I counted 5 against Bury. I counted 8 against Peterboro' that we were fortunate not to be punished by.
I think that it is reasonable to expect more from a professional with International experience, particularly a captain to boot.
To continue with him in the team is:
Hurting our chances of promotion
Putting into question Nigel's judgement (who I think is otherwise doing a great job)
Unfair to Jay, he needs to come out of the spotlight and be coached and cajoled back to full performance