Where Should Matt Done Play?

[1danewhitehouse]

Interesting comparison with Sam at West Ham. When teams in the prem sack him, they usually get relegated. It'll be interesting to see if that happens again (spending big on the likes of Payet makes it unlikely IMO).

Maybe it's because I got into watching the blades during Bassett's reign and didn't see John Harris' teams but I have plenty of time for Bassett and Warnock as managers (even if Warnock came out with some daft shit at times). Give me that over Robson, Adams, Weir, Clough, Blackwell, Wilson, Thompson, Bruce, Heath etc any day.

Kendall and Spackman had us playing some good stuff for a time but they were given more money and still didn't get us up.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

With your comments regarding Matty Done, I deduce that you haven't seen him play. Anyone who has seen him knows that he harasses and frightens defenders better than anyone else at the club, He is a strange mixture of a faster Sharp and a cleverer McNulty. He happens to score goals too. Why on Earth would we sell him?
Assuming he returns from injury back to his old self, fingers and legs crossed!

So where should he play?

Would we be better off with a CM or even CH of equivalent financial value?

 

[itsinyerblood]

I suppose what I'm thinking is Yes it's be great to have that option but it almost reveals an embarrassment of riches, or maybe it underuses Done's abilities.

If we were in Division 1, say, then I could envisage Done as a bit player but it seems extravagant in Division 3.

I wouldn't be against selling him and using the money on central midfield say.

But maybe Adkins knows more about football than I do and can fit him in. We'll see.

William, from your last sentence, do I understand you to think that you might know more about football, and therefore management, than Adkins does?

I don't doubt you feel, like most of us, that appointing Adkins was a great move, but Nigel's been through football's school of hard knocks, and this will have prepared him for what's ahead. My intuition is that Adkins has qualities that we'll benefit from now and in future.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

William, from your last sentence, do I understand you to think that you might know more about football, and therefore management, than Adkins does?

I don't doubt you feel, like most of us, that appointing Adkins was a great move, but Nigel's been through football's school of hard knocks, and this will have prepared him for what's ahead. My intuition is that Adkins has qualities that we'll benefit from now and in future.

Yerwot?

Who knows more about football: bloke on forum or manager with (outstanding) track record of success?

Hmmm....

 

[BushBlade]

Interesting comparison with Sam at West Ham. When teams in the prem sack him, they usually get relegated. It'll be interesting to see if that happens again (spending big on the likes of Payet makes it unlikely IMO).

Maybe it's because I got into watching the blades during Bassett's reign and didn't see John Harris' teams but I have plenty of time for Bassett and Warnock as managers (even if Warnock came out with some daft shit at times). Give me that over Robson, Adams, Weir, Clough, Blackwell, Wilson, Thompson, Bruce, Heath etc any day.

Kendall and Spackman had us playing some good stuff for a time but they were given more money and still didn't get us up.

I think Kendall would have done it the following year if he hadn't been tempted to return to Everton again.
Didn't rate Spackman at all.

I started going in the Porterfield era and I'd say my top three are Bassett, Warnock and IP, with Kendall just behind. I'm half and half with Bruce as I think he was stitched up by the board and I admire what he did at Arsenal but the bloke had little love for us. Speedo was right man, wrong time. Wilson: nice bloke, very average manager, Adams; still not sure how he got it so wrong, Clough; shame, I had high hopes but I don't think he could deal with the pressure.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Yerwot?

Who knows more about football: bloke on forum or manager with (outstanding) track record of success?

Hmmm....

Your comment was that maybe Adkins knows more about football than you do, what's confusing about that?

Hmmm...

 

[coaxingstar71]

I really don’t know why Warnock gets such a bad press from some of our fans. He certainly had his faults but for me, he has been by some way our best and most successful manager of the last 20 years. He gave us the triple assault season, helped set up the academy, gave us a season in the top flight and whilst he got things wrong there, what he did would have been enough to keep us up in a just world.

He also brought favourites like Brown, Morgs, Page, Kabba, Geary, Kenny, Hulse etc. to to the club whilst bringing the likes of Jagielka, Tonge and Monty through the ranks.

I hope Adkins’ reign will eclipse his but I find it very odd that a man who did so much good for our club is so hated by the fans.

One of the reasons he was successful IMO was the number of attacking options he kept at his disposal. Our promotion season saw us use Gray, Webber, Kabba, Shipps, Pericard, Akinbiyi, Horsefield, Dyer and Deane up front at some stage or another. That’s 9 strikers throughout the season, 10 if you count the couple of games where we played Jags just off a striker.

In the tripe assault season we used Asaba, Peschisolido, Onoura, Allison, Windass, Kabba, and Mooney off the top of my head. Was Boulding on loan that season as well? If so that’s 8 strikers used that season.

This season in the league, we are likely to use Sharp, Adams, Sammon, McNulty, Done and possibly one of DdG or DCL and (hopefully not) Higdon. That’s about 6 or 7 though I suspect Higdon and the 2 youngsters mentioned will play extremely peripheral roles leaving Sharp, Adams, McNulty Sammon and Done. 5 strikers. I also suspect that one of Adams and Done will be on the wing in most games so that’s 4. Not too many at all in my opinion and the flexibility of Adams and Done is particularly useful.

It pays to have consistency in selection in the defence but for me, having so many varied options up front is a huge blessing for us this season. I think it’s something that will see us with a lot of games in the 2nd half (like Blackpool and Swindon).

See post from "Bladey Bladeness" thread from July...

Warnock has all the qualifications for a Bladey Blade. He's a Sheffield lad who used to watch us from the kop as a kid, even traveled away to see the Blades (he mentions going away to Highbury in his book "Made in Sheffield"). And of course he's our most successful manager in our recent history - our only successful manager actually.
However, his Bladey Bladeness is somewhat spoiled by the fact that he isn't humble and has a big gob on him. To achieve true Bladey Bladeness you can never fall out with anyone else at the club, at least not publicly. Indeed, a Bladey Blade who has fallen from grace is often hated more than a non-Blade

It's my understanding that his lack of humbleness and self promotion even before he became our manager did not go down well with a number of blades.

 

[DronnieBlade]

Said it b4.

Don't think you "need" the Big Man up top. Thats not to say you shouldn't.

So for me Done would be a perfect foil for either Sharp or McNulty. Sammon to come on from bench as and when required.

You MUST go with your main goalscorers first and foremost. They being Sharp, Done and McNuts.

UTB

 

[BushBlade]

So where should he play?

Would we be better off with a CM or even CH of equivalent financial value?

Up front alongside Sammon. Billy isn't going to play 50 games this season and we need a bit of quality as cover. No-one would suggest that a first choice of McNulty and Sammon would guarantee promotion but without Done we're one injury to Billy away from that.

That's the advantage of being a big club in this league. You don't see Mourinho saying now I've got Falcao I'll sell Costa because I've got Remi in reserve.

Haven't we just sold Murphy on the premise were going to invest the money on the first team? Why would we need to sell Done if that's the case?

They'll be opportunities for him and he may end up keeping Billy out of the team for a while. It would be nice to get to the end of the season with enough fit players to win games and unless you're very lucky you need a squad for that.

 

[coaxingstar71]

So where should he play?

Would we be better off with a CM or even CH of equivalent financial value?

As they say, when Done returns, it will give the manager the kind of headache he will like to have. Personally, with his energy and work rate, personified by the goal he scored at the Lane v Peterboro, I could see him playing centre mid too. I wouldn't advocate selling such a valuable player just in terms of his versatility. Whether Adkins can keep them all playing and happy, we'll have to wait and see.

I can see what you mean though in terms of our embarassment of riches in forward positions and lack of in defensive positions. Ideally, I'd rather we sold Higdon and one or two other peripheral players if we need to do that in order to finance any players coming in.

 

[BushBlade]

See post from "Bladey Bladeness" thread from July...



It's my understanding that his lack of humbleness and self promotion even before he became our manager did not go down well with a number of blades.

Probably the same Blades that would have loved Brian Clough as our manager. I'm all for a bit of humility but I don't think it's essential in football. I don't recall Ferguson being humble.
Warnock is arrogant but at least has the promotions to back him up whereas Blackwell is just arrogant.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Said it b4.

Don't think you "need" the Big Man up top. Thats not to say you shouldn't.

So for me Done would be a perfect foil for either Sharp or McNulty. Sammon to come on from bench as and when required.

You MUST go with your main goalscorers first and foremost. They being Sharp, Done and McNuts.

UTB

The question that arises with that Dronnie is that surely it's about finding the right chemistry that will make our attacking threat reach it's potential. I think most of us realise that Sammon won't score 20 plus for us this season, but his value to the guys around him makes him a valuable addition to our attacking threat. He nags away at the opposition defence, his hold up play and laying off ability is good, and his physical presence will make him a nightmare for opposing teams. I don't question the value of the players you mention, what I ask is what combination of players will actually produce the chances and goals that will make us the most effective team we can be.

 

[coaxingstar71]

Probably the same Blades that would have loved Brian Clough as our manager. I'm all for a bit of humility but I don't think it's essential in football. I don't recall Ferguson being humble.
Warnock is arrogant but at least has the promotions to back him up whereas Blackwell is just arrogant.

The quoted response was after I'd asked if Warnock was a bladey blade and I got a resounding response of NO!

Like I said, this is my understanding as to why he's not universally liked by blades, not my own opinion.

I agree with you in fact and would have loved to have had Brian Clough as manager. If he had taken over us rather than Forest in '77, who knows what might have happened as Forest at the time were no better off than us. It was never going to happen though, I read Clough's auto and he mentioned a dislike of Dick Wragg after his England interview and I think Wragg was still club president at the time.

 

[DronnieBlade]

The question that arises with that Dronnie is that surely it's about finding the right chemistry that will make our attacking threat reach it's potential. I think most of us realise that Sammon won't score 20 plus for us this season, but his value to the guys around him makes him a valuable addition to our attacking threat. He nags away at the opposition defence, his hold up play and laying off ability is good, and his physical presence will make him a nightmare for opposing teams. I don't question the value of the players you mention, what I ask is what combination of players will actually produce the chances and goals that will make us the most effective team we can be.

Undoubtedly.

And my view on Sammon is incredibly harsh given that he can rightly claim to have perhaps been our best player thus far. He is good at what he does, no doubt. Everything you have said.

I just believe that, assuming you are playing a style of play that services your forward players to their strengths, which is to say played through midfield rather than "lumped", our best chance of success in and around the oppos penalty area would be to have 2 genuine goalscoring threats that work well in tandem. A lower level Andy Cole / Dwight Yorke type combo.

Sammon is good at what he does, but he is behind Done McNuts Sharp Adams (And even possibly Higdon) when it comes to putting the ball in the Onion Bag.

IMHO.

UTB.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Undoubtedly.

And my view on Sammon is incredibly harsh given that he can rightly claim to have perhaps been our best player thus far. He is good at what he does, no doubt. Everything you have said.

I just believe that, assuming you are playing a style of play that services your forward players to their strengths, which is to say played through midfield rather than "lumped", our best chance of success in and around the oppos penalty area would be to have 2 genuine goalscoring threats that work well in tandem. A lower level Andy Cole / Dwight Yorke type combo.

Sammon is good at what he does, but he is behind Done McNuts Sharp Adams (And even possibly Higdon) when it comes to putting the ball in the Onion Bag.

IMHO.

UTB.

I think we're a cunt hair apart from agreeing .....all I'd add is that we have those various options, and that 'lumping' the ball is just one. That question of scoring might become a tad more difficult without Sammons' presence, as he acts as distraction that can open up opportunities. In my view Higdon doesn't come close to offering what Sammons does. Returning to the question of Done, I can't wait to see him return, one thing we have to thank Clough jnr for.

 

[coaxingstar71]

Interesting point (although off topic) about Clough Jnr - we may be glad he's no longer manager but he did make some good signings*. I think this was something I heard Derby fans say too, that he'd brought good players in, just didn't get them to play well together and, presumably, positively. For us he signed; Done, Adams, Basham, Brayford and J-Mac.

Older members may recall when Arthur Rowley was manager for a short time, didn't do very well, but signed many players that served the club well for a number of years after. I think he signed Colquhoun, Powell and Hemsley and probably a couple of others**

*Along with some 'not so good' signings admittedly
**I'm sure someone like Darren can provide a full list or perhaps set it as a competition?

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Your comment was that maybe Adkins knows more about football than you do, what's confusing about that?

Hmmm...

Perhaps not intended to be taken entirely seriously.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Said it b4.

Don't think you "need" the Big Man up top. Thats not to say you shouldn't.

So for me Done would be a perfect foil for either Sharp or McNulty. Sammon to come on from bench as and when required.

You MUST go with your main goalscorers first and foremost. They being Sharp, Done and McNuts.

UTB

Attack of the Killer Dwarfs.

Haven't we already tried that ?

 

[DronnieBlade]

Attack of the Killer Dwarfs.

Haven't we already tried that ?

Not really.

Sharp is so much more complete as a CF than most expected. He can play the holding CF role when required, playing in his strike partner. We saw this when McNulty scored his last league goal. Twas a perfect example of the point I am making.

UTB.

 

[itsinyerblood]

Perhaps not intended to be taken entirely seriously.

Then my apology.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Up front alongside Sammon. Billy isn't going to play 50 games this season and we need a bit of quality as cover. No-one would suggest that a first choice of McNulty and Sammon would guarantee promotion but without Done we're one injury to Billy away from that.

That's the advantage of being a big club in this league. You don't see Mourinho saying now I've got Falcao I'll sell Costa because I've got Remi in reserve.

Haven't we just sold Murphy on the premise were going to invest the money on the first team? Why would we need to sell Done if that's the case?

They'll be opportunities for him and he may end up keeping Billy out of the team for a while. It would be nice to get to the end of the season with enough fit players to win games and unless you're very lucky you need a squad for that.

I think he's a natural replacement for Sharp, but Billy is very much Adkins' favoured option, so - while recognising the need for a.good squad - I can't see him being used very much in that role.

In which case he plays somewhere less effective, or he is underused and may become unsettled.

I'm interested to see how it plays out, but just because he's a very good player doesn't mean be belongs in our team, for various reasons.

I hope Adkins can, er, keep.him onside but, although plenty of good points have been made I haven't really seen a totally convincing response in the thread.

 

[William Henry Foulkes]

Not really.

Sharp is so much more complete as a CF than most expected. He can play the holding CF role when required, playing in his strike partner. We saw this when McNulty scored his last league goal. Twas a perfect example of the point I am making.

UTB.

I get the point. It's a brave post that advocates playing shorter players on this forum though

 

[1danewhitehouse]

Interesting point (although off topic) about Clough Jnr - we may be glad he's no longer manager but he did make some good signings*. I think this was something I heard Derby fans say too, that he'd brought good players in, just didn't get them to play well together and, presumably, positively. For us he signed; Done, Adams, Basham, Brayford and J-Mac.

Older members may recall when Arthur Rowley was manager for a short time, didn't do very well, but signed many players that served the club well for a number of years after. I think he signed Colquhoun, Powell and Hemsley and probably a couple of others**

*Along with some 'not so good' signings admittedly
**I'm sure someone like Darren can provide a full list or perhaps set it as a competition?

Agree coaxingstar. The same could be said of Adrian Heath. Awful manager for us but in his short tenure he brought in Shaun Murphy, Jody Craddock (loan), Martin Smith and Marcus Bent. Some of them turned out pretty good. Then again, didn’t he also bring Smeets and Gysbrechts?

Regarding dropping Sammon… not for me. He is the only player who can do his job whereas Done, Sharp, Adams and McNulty can all do the other job. If Sammon has to be rested/ is injured/ suspended etc. then one of these combinations would be good to look at in the odd game but I think we’d miss what he brings to the table. When McNulty and Done played together against Posh at the lane last season we looked awful, mainly because neither can play with their back to goal or make the ball stick up front.

I’m all for us getting the ball down and playing but if you don’t have a forward who can hold it up you become too one dimensional. Goal kicks etc have to be played short or you lose possession straight away. Opposing players recognise that and close down your defenders to stop you playing and you don’t have an “out” ball. For those reasons, Sammon is the forward I expect and want to see play more games than any others this season. I think that’s important for the balance of the team.

Done will get his chances. We have so many games over a season and his versatility means there will be opportunities for sure. As I said before, it could be argued that he would improve our team at LB, LM , RM or CF. That means if McEveley, Adams, JCR or Sharp is even slightly out of form or fatigued, Done comes into the team.

Re Warnock, bladey blade or not, he was the 2nd most successful blades manager I’ve ever seen and gave us that memorable night against Forest. His comments and self-promotion could and still can be cringe-inducing at times but overall, I like him.

Also, I wonder if this is my mind playing tricks on me. Before he was our manager and was managing Bury, we played them in the cup and I’m sure I saw him doing a pre or post match interview wearing a Sheffield United tie. Did that happen or have I mis-remembered?

 

[Silent Blade]

Older members may recall when Arthur Rowley was manager for a short time, didn't do very well, but signed many players that served the club well for a number of years after. I think he signed Colquhoun, Powell and Hemsley and probably a couple of others**

Eddie Colquhoun - very good
Dave Powell - very good
John Tudor - good
Ted Hemsley - good
John Flynn- Rowley's last signing but didnt play under his management
Graeme Crawford - played only two games (both under Harris)
Cameron Evans - stayed for three days before going back to Scotland due to homesickness
Gordon Butler - never played for 1st team

 

[BushBlade]

I think he's a natural replacement for Sharp, but Billy is very much Adkins' favoured option, so - while recognising the need for a.good squad - I can't see him being used very much in that role.

In which case he plays somewhere less effective, or he is underused and may become unsettled.

I'm interested to see how it plays out, but just because he's a very good player doesn't mean be belongs in our team, for various reasons.

I hope Adkins can, er, keep.him onside but, although plenty of good points have been made I haven't really seen a totally convincing response in the thread.

He's not even fit yet and your talking about him becoming unsettled. Perhaps ultimately he will leave but I'd be genuinely shocked if it was in the JTW.

 

[BushBlade]

Agree coaxingstar. The same could be said of Adrian Heath. Awful manager for us but in his short tenure he brought in Shaun Murphy, Jody Craddock (loan), Martin Smith and Marcus Bent. Some of them turned out pretty good. Then again, didn’t he also bring Smeets and Gysbrechts?

Regarding dropping Sammon… not for me. He is the only player who can do his job whereas Done, Sharp, Adams and McNulty can all do the other job. If Sammon has to be rested/ is injured/ suspended etc. then one of these combinations would be good to look at in the odd game but I think we’d miss what he brings to the table. When McNulty and Done played together against Posh at the lane last season we looked awful, mainly because neither can play with their back to goal or make the ball stick up front.

I’m all for us getting the ball down and playing but if you don’t have a forward who can hold it up you become too one dimensional. Goal kicks etc have to be played short or you lose possession straight away. Opposing players recognise that and close down your defenders to stop you playing and you don’t have an “out” ball. For those reasons, Sammon is the forward I expect and want to see play more games than any others this season. I think that’s important for the balance of the team.

Done will get his chances. We have so many games over a season and his versatility means there will be opportunities for sure. As I said before, it could be argued that he would improve our team at LB, LM , RM or CF. That means if McEveley, Adams, JCR or Sharp is even slightly out of form or fatigued, Done comes into the team.

Re Warnock, bladey blade or not, he was the 2nd most successful blades manager I’ve ever seen and gave us that memorable night against Forest. His comments and self-promotion could and still can be cringe-inducing at times but overall, I like him.

Also, I wonder if this is my mind playing tricks on me. Before he was our manager and was managing Bury, we played them in the cup and I’m sure I saw him doing a pre or post match interview wearing a Sheffield United tie. Did that happen or have I mis-remembered?

I think he did Dane.

 

[coaxingstar71]

Eddie Colquhoun - very good
Dave Powell - very good
John Tudor - good
Ted Hemsley - good
John Flynn- Rowley's last signing but didnt play under his management
Graeme Crawford - played only two games (both under Harris)
Cameron Evans - stayed for three days before going back to Scotland due to homesickness
Gordon Butler - never played for 1st team

Four very decent players (including Flynn) there for very small fees. Not bad really. Such a shame that Powell turned out to be so injury prone.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

If Adams is performing well down the left then I think Sharp and Done up front. If Adams isn't performing, then I think Done on the left with Sammon and Sharp up front. Nothing against Sammon, but I really hope Adams does play up to his potential. An attacking 4 of JCR - Done - Sharp - Adams should blitz this league.

PS -Surely the award for "manager with best signings that couldn't get the team to play well" goes to Bryan Robson?

 

[1danewhitehouse]

If Adams is performing well down the left then I think Sharp and Done up front. If Adams isn't performing, then I think Done on the left with Sammon and Sharp up front. Nothing against Sammon, but I really hope Adams does play up to his potential. An attacking 4 of JCR - Done - Sharp - Adams should blitz this league.

PS -Surely the award for "manager with best signings that couldn't get the team to play well" goes to Bryan Robson?

Only reason I didn't say Robson is because I don't think he signed bargains that turned out to be good. He went out and bought proven premiership quality that any manager could have signed with enough money.

 

[Fjortoft's Aeroplane]

Only reason I didn't say Robson is because I don't think he signed bargains that turned out to be good. He went out and bought proven premiership quality that any manager could have signed with enough money.

I'm not sure Warnock or Blackwell would have been able to get Beattie in with the same chequebook. There was a certain "Robson effect" in getting the likes of Beattie in and loanees like Gary Speed (RIP) and Phil Bardsley. I still wish McCabe had got the chequebook out whilst we were in the Prem instead of waiting til we got relegated.